[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

No, that is not "typical" of activities that illegal immigrants are pursuing "these days." Again - that's politics and propaganda speaking, not fact.

Typical immigrants without legal status or documentation are mostly under the radar, working legitimate jobs with expired visas (they arrived legally, they stay illegally). They pay taxes, they do their jobs, they come home, kiss their spouses and kids, have dinner, and do it all again the next day. THAT is the "typical" activity.

What you are describing is the A-typical. The same can be said for legal citizens of the USA. Typical activity for most of us in this country is to work, have families, pay taxes, get an education of some kind or another, and live our lives without much to-do. The A-typical among us commit crimes, some of them horrific.

Well, the reality is the folks, such as the ranchers in Hidalgo County in the boot heel of New Mexico, who live and work near the Mexican border (not in some distant unaffected ivory tower) are experiencing first hand what is happening. They are regularly victimized by illegals committing crimes against their person and their property.

https://www.kob.com/albuquerque-news...order/5220568/

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Trayderjoe

Unfortunately this, IMHO, is muddying the waters. The predominant issue at hand is the number of uncontrolled immigrants currently attempting to enter the country. This is not to say that there isn't a concern by some regarding all immigrants who are not here legally.

I am still waiting to hear what other types of immigration there are besides controlled and uncontrolled that was previously alluded.

Unfortunately moving forward to solve the issue may be a hope and never a reality. Statistics are challenged when they don't meet an agenda, people are grouped based upon their position about people who come here illegally. Policies and practices regarding uncontrolled immigration that were practiced on BOTH sides of the aisle are convienently ignored by one side as it doesn't fit an agenda. HELLO, all citizens of the US should be upset and working toward a common goal. How will this ever happen when people, even on this discussion board, insist on their agenda and not a common beneficial endpoint?

Stop moving the goalposts. This isn't about "controlled vs. uncontrolled" immigration. It's about "badly controlled vs. better controlled" immigration. Immigration is controlled in this country. But OBVIOUSLY the system isn't working, or we wouldn't have the issues we see today. The current incarnation of "controlled immigration" is BROKEN. It needs to be fixed. That doesn't mean removing controls. It means getting rid of what doesn't work, and replacing it with what does work. Or adding to something that is inadequate, but would be of superior and efficient quality if something was added to it. Make what we have better. More for its own sake is not equal to better.

More wall doesn't equal superior control. Kicking them ALL out doesn't equal superior control. Forbidding them from ALL entering doesn't equal superior control. Taking what one small faction of people think, based on something they know nothing about and have no personal experience of, and implementing laws based on that little tidbit of non-information and faulty data, does not equal superior control.

What DOES equal superior control, is implementing modern technological advances to border control facilities. It is adding more staff to the border patrol. It is adding more gates to the border patrol. It is repairing any gates, fencing, walls, or other barriers, that are in need of repair. It is providing more efficient and humane methodology to the asylum and refugee programs already in place. It is adding multitudes of trained immigrations professionals, who can help get some of these folks, who have been here 20 years and have been TRYING to legally gain citizenship even before their visas expired.

There are hundreds of thousands of immigrants who are "in process" in this country, who have been "in process" for over a decade. There is no excuse for that. They should have either been moved along the path to citizenship, or returned to their countries of origin by now.

End the logjam.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

Well, the reality is the folks, such as the ranchers in Hidalgo County in the boot heel of New Mexico, who live and work near the Mexican border (not in some distant unaffected ivory tower) are experiencing first hand what is happening. They are regularly victimized by illegals committing crimes against their person and their property.

https://www.kob.com/albuquerque-news...order/5220568/

And again, this is not TYPICAL. Typical would imply that this is how the majority behave. Of the millions of undocumented immigrants - whether asylum seekers, refugees, border-hoppers, people who flew in on visitor passes and just never bothered going home, MOST of them are "otherwise" law-abiding. There is a very small minority who are violent criminals.

Just as there is a very small minority of American citizens who are violent criminals.

If crime is the "typical" complaint, then perhaps begin with ridding the USA of Americans who are criminals. How about deporting the criminals who receive these illegal aliens. The ones who hire them. The ones who smuggle them in. How about we just send THOSE American citizens out of the country. With no one to illegally receive, hire, or smuggle the immigrants, there will be fewer immigrants coming in illegally.

We can go back and forth on this for months, or even forever. But when you discount ALL possible perspectives beside your own, you lose the debate.

[manaboutown]

Oh but it is typical and that is the problem. The people who are actually living where the illegals are coming through know that as they are experiencing crime, drug running, murders, rapes, vehicle theft, vandalism, robberies and burglaries committed by illegals.

From the following article:

Consequently, we will probably never be able to determine what the precise crime rate is for illegal aliens. But there is overwhelming evidence that it is much higher than the crime rate for U.S. citizens. Illegal aliens commit a disproportionate share of crimes:

A grossly disproportionate share of federal prisoners – 22 percent – are aliens. Roughly 2/3 of these aliens were illegally in the country when they committed their crimes. So that’s over 14 percent of federal prisoners. Yet illegal aliens represent only 3-6 percent of the population.
75 percent of those on the most wanted criminals lists in Los Angeles, Phoenix and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.
More than 53 percent of burglaries investigated in the border region states of California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas are committed by illegal aliens.
The Texas Department of Public Safety has been keeping careful records of aliens booked into Texas jails since June 1, 2011. As of September 30, 2017, more than 232,000 aliens had been jailed, of which over 155,000 (2/3) were illegally in the country.
Looking just at the aliens we are deporting, criminality is pervasive. In FY 2015 (the last year for which we have complete statistics), 59 percent of removed aliens had been convicted of criminal offenses (other than their immigration violations). And many more had been arrested or charged with crimes, but not yet convicted.
ICE knows of nearly 10,000 additional crimes that were committed by illegal aliens who had been in the custody of sanctuary cities and counties, but were released. Every one of those crimes could have been prevented if the sanctuary policy had not been in place.
The bottom line is that illegal aliens present a disproportionate crime problem for this country. Kate Steinle is just one of thousands of Americans who have lost their lives as a result. To deny the connection between illegal immigration and crime is to deny reality. And to suggest that U.S. citizens commit crimes at an equal or greater rate is absurd.



Kobach: Correcting the Record on Illegal Aliens and Crime

[villagerjack]

So he presents the facts and you condemn the source with your attack words. You are correct. Discussion is over. Load the busses up and get rid of all these lawbreakers tomorrow. They are destroying our way of life. And we cannot afford them.

[Trayderjoe]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

Stop moving the goalposts. This isn't about "controlled vs. uncontrolled" immigration. It's about "badly controlled vs. better controlled" immigration. Immigration is controlled in this country. But OBVIOUSLY the system isn't working, or we wouldn't have the issues we see today. The current incarnation of "controlled immigration" is BROKEN. It needs to be fixed. That doesn't mean removing controls. It means getting rid of what doesn't work, and replacing it with what does work. Or adding to something that is inadequate, but would be of superior and efficient quality if something was added to it. Make what we have better. More for its own sake is not equal to better.

More wall doesn't equal superior control. Kicking them ALL out doesn't equal superior control. Forbidding them from ALL entering doesn't equal superior control. Taking what one small faction of people think, based on something they know nothing about and have no personal experience of, and implementing laws based on that little tidbit of non-information and faulty data, does not equal superior control.

What DOES equal superior control, is implementing modern technological advances to border control facilities. It is adding more staff to the border patrol. It is adding more gates to the border patrol. It is repairing any gates, fencing, walls, or other barriers, that are in need of repair. It is providing more efficient and humane methodology to the asylum and refugee programs already in place. It is adding multitudes of trained immigrations professionals, who can help get some of these folks, who have been here 20 years and have been TRYING to legally gain citizenship even before their visas expired.

There are hundreds of thousands of immigrants who are "in process" in this country, who have been "in process" for over a decade. There is no excuse for that. They should have either been moved along the path to citizenship, or returned to their countries of origin by now.

End the logjam.

I have yet to move the goalposts, they are still controlled and uncontrolled immigration. Perhaps the posting in response that referred to immigration not being black and white controlled versus uncontrolled, that there are other types of immigration is the goal posts moving?

There is no dispute that the system is broken, and that repairs, personnel, and technology are needed. However, more wall is needed as part of the infrastructure upgrades. The first step, IMHO does need to be a change in our laws. Perhaps if we spent less time and resources on immigrants taking advantage of the holes in our laws, the people who are trying to “do it right” can be addressed in a timely fashion.