[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Cedwards38

Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism and other beliefs, including atheism are not the problem. EXTREMISM is the problem. People practicing their own beliefs is not the problem. Extremists that condemn people of other beliefs are the problem. People who hate and/or kill other people in the name of God are extremists. They are the problem in San Bernardino, Colorado Springs, Paris, London, the Middle East, New York City, and The Villages.

I do agree with that. No one speaks for God only God or whatever you want to call him/her/it. The world would be a better place if some did not think they knew what happens after we die. There are clues in the beautiful works like The Bible, The Koran and other World Religion sacred works but these are only clues.

I also think the world would be better if more women and men followed the example of the ladies in Lysistrata. Lysistrata - Aristophanes - Ancient Greece - Classical Literature But in some cases like the shooter in Aurora, CO that seems like what he really needed was a girlfriend.
Mass Shooting Psychology: Spree Killers Have Consistent Profile, Research Shows

Of course, this does not work well in the situation where the new lover (wife) seems to be the war-monger like with the San Bernardino massacre.

[Justus]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Thank you for allowing this thread to stand and I think people have been very respectful over all. I will say again that going to the political forum where every poster is called guest is like talking to one's self. It is impossible to know or remember the views of anyone because they are anonymous and it is frustrating and useless. Although we do not know the real names of posters, over time we know where they stand on issues and how they react. In the political forum not having that is useless to try to read, understand and discuss or debate.

Absolutely correct, Gracie! Thanks!

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by Justus

This is all factually (and historically) correct and verifiable:

In 732 A.D., the Muslim Army, which was moving on Paris, was defeated and turned back at Tours, France, by Charles Martell. (Charlemagne)

In 1571 A.D., the Muslim Army/Navy was defeated by the Italians and Austrians as they tried to cross the Mediterranean to attack southern Europe in the Battle of Lepanto.

In 1683 A.D., the Turkish Muslim Army, attacking Eastern Europe, was finally defeated in the Battle of Vienna by German and Polish Christian Armies.

If these battles had not been won, we might be speaking Arabic and Christianity could be non-existent; Judaism certainly would not exist.


Do you remember?:

1. In 1968, Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by a Muslim male.

2. In 1972, at the Munich Olympics, Israeli athletes were kidnapped and massacred by Muslim males.

3. In 1972, a PanAm 747 was hijacked and eventually diverted to Cairo where a fuse was lit on final approach. Shortly after landing it was blown up by Muslim males.

4. In 1973, a PanAm 707 was destroyed in Rome, with 33 people killed, when it was attacked with grenades by Muslim males.

5. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by Muslim males.

6. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by Muslim males.

7. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by Muslim males.

8. In 1985, the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70-year old Jewish American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by Muslim males.

9. In 1985, TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was murdered by Muslim males.

10. In 1988, PanAm Flight 103 was bombed by Muslim males.

11. In 1993, the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by Muslim males.

12. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by Muslim males.

13. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take down the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers. Thousands of people were killed by Muslim males.

14. In 2002, the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against Muslim males.

15. In 2002, reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and beheaded by - you guessed it - a Muslim male. (Plus two other American journalists were just recently beheaded).

16. In 2013, the Boston Marathon Bombing resulted in 4 Innocent people, including a child, being killed plus 264 people injured by Muslim males.

I'm sensing a pattern.....

[billethkid]

Terrorism/terrorist are soon to be candidates for political re-definition.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by billethkid

Terrorism/terrorist are soon to be candidates for political re-definition.

Climate change caused man anger?

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by twinklesweep

History is certainly subject to interpretation. However, to keep it simple, what would be the explanation that there still exist today Crusader fortifications built hundreds of years ago in places that would not be associated with Christianity during the time of the Crusades--such places as Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, and more.

The "kill them all!" applied not solely to Muslims; it applied to everyone who did not accept the tenets of the Roman Catholic Church. In this context, consider the Inquisition in Catholic countries like Spain and Portugal, which I would think we're all familiar with. And though not directly related to this issue, consider the response of the Roman Catholic Church to the Cathars (fellow Christians who felt the true principles of Christianity were being compromised by the Church, sought to separate themselves from it, and were followed and massacred by the armies of the Church because of their beliefs).

History cannot be viewed in such black-and-white terms. History--especially when forgotten or, worse, never learned--has a way of coming back to haunt us. We cannot glibly say that one side is the aggressor, not the other, when there are so many other factors to consider, for example, colonialism (France "owning" Algeria, for one, and its results in the present); and rule by individual despotic dictators that did result in a semblance of stability, even if were not what we in the West would consider ideal or even acceptable (Marshal Tito in the "made-up country" of Yugoslavia, Saddam Hussein in Iraq after the whole Middle East had been carved up into so-called "countries" mainly by the British from the Ottoman Empire early in the 20th century). These are just two examples.

Again, I reiterate that I am not justifying today's jihadism but just considering what might be one (of many) possible reasons for it.

It comes down to this fact. Most religions have had a violent period, however they have evolved forward. Islam still has very active factions that preach a 7th Century Philosophy in the 21st Century. They just can't coincide. There are two fronts to this war, one of bullets and one of ideas. The bullet war we can win, the idea war we are loosing badly.

[biker1]

Let's assume your premise is correct that we have a gun epidemic. What exactly is your recommendation? Please keep in mind that the vast majority of gun owners are responsible, law abiding citizens. Is your suggestion to completely outlaw guns? In other words, everyone must turn in their guns, no exceptions? Assuming this is your solution, exactly how does this work when honest citizens turn in their guns but criminals don't? What most people don't realize is that background checks are required for gun purchases, at least in the states I have lived it. You also can't buy assault weapons (aka fully automatic weapons), despite what the media would like you to believe. Perhaps the background checks could be done better. Regardless, what exactly is your recommendation? You also might want to keep in mind that the call for additional gun control whenever there is an incident of mental illness or terrorism based gun violence only creates a spike in gun sales. Obama should be recognized as the gun salesman of the decade.

Originally Posted by Cathy H

forget all the political stuff. but the flu? ebola? malaria? polio? obesity?
We have a gun epidemic in this country & it needs to be fixed.

[Steve9930]

We do not have a gun problem, we have a violence problem. Those that advocate for stronger gun laws should educate themselves on the current laws. Most of the Politian's are not advocating anything new, they are just spinning a tale for votes. We already have in place what they are preaching. There are background checks, there is no internet loop hole, its against Federal Law to make a living at selling firearms without a license, and on and on.

This tragedy in California happened because we have become so sensitive to the possibility of being called a bigot or a racist that we over look the obvious in front of us at times. If you study each of these tragedies, whether it be by a mentally Ill Individual or in the case by two radicalized individuals, someone knew, someone had a hunch, things did not pass the smell test. This has got to change. See something, say something. People we are in a fight for our way of life.

[jblum315]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

I'm sensing a pattern.....

Well, this time it was a Muslim female. So where's your pattern now?

[goodtimesintv]

Originally Posted by jblum315

Well, this time it was a Muslim female. So where's your pattern now?

No, it was a Muslim male AND female.

Stop making excuses for such bloodthirsty killers, plural. That male went on his own volition to get the female from the middle east, to marry her on his own volition.

What he absorbed into his mind, and then what actions he took with it, is his responsibility and nobody else's.

"The father of one of the San Bernardino killers told an Italian newspaper on Sunday that his son, Sayed Rizan Farook, had an obsessive hatred of Israel that underscored his Islamic radicalism and allegiance to the ideals of Islamic State.

An anti-Semitic streak was also discovered within the family as the father, Sayed Farook said he tried to dissuade his son from violence by telling him that "Nobody wants the Jews...In two years. Israel will no longer exist."

The senior Farook, in an interview with Italian newspaper La Stampa, described his son as "an angel. Good, obedient studious. Maybe a little too shy, conservative and firmly against Israel."

'My son was obsessed with Israel,' says father of San Bernardino shooter - Middle East - Jerusalem Post

[Cathy H]

Originally Posted by biker1

Let's assume your premise is correct that we have a gun epidemic. What exactly is your recommendation? Please keep in mind that the vast majority of gun owners are responsible, law abiding citizens. Is your suggestion to completely outlaw guns? In other words, everyone must turn in their guns, no exceptions? Assuming this is your solution, exactly how does this work when honest citizens turn in their guns but criminals don't? What most people don't realize is that background checks are required for gun purchases, at least in the states I have lived it. You also can't buy assault weapons (aka fully automatic weapons), despite what the media would like you to believe. Perhaps the background checks could be done better. Regardless, what exactly is your recommendation? You also might want to keep in mind that the call for additional gun control whenever there is an incident of mental illness or terrorism based gun violence only creates a spike in gun sales. Obama should be recognized as the gun salesman of the decade.

begin by re-instating the national law to stop selling automatic military rifles to anyone; then offer buy-back for assualt-type rifles now out there (like they did in Australia); stop all gun-show sales that do not do back-ground checks; strengthen the background check system for all gun purchases; do not allow ownership of multiple guns; introduce new gun safety technology in gun manufacture. 32000 americans die from gunshots every year. your cheap shot at our President was not appreciated.

[graciegirl]

CNN reported that the childhood friend whose home was raided and who purchased the long guns for the shooter is missing and is said to have "checked himself into a mental facility."

Also see this;
Report: Shooter's father says his son supported ISIS


Curiouser and curiouser.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by jblum315

Well, this time it was a Muslim female. So where's your pattern now?

Idealogy.

[AJ32162]

Originally Posted by Cathy H

begin by re-instating the national law to stop selling automatic military rifles to anyone; then offer buy-back for assualt-type rifles now out there (like they did in Australia); stop all gun-show sales that do not do back-ground checks; strengthen the background check system for all gun purchases; do not allow ownership of multiple guns; introduce new gun safety technology in gun manufacture. 32000 americans die from gunshots every year. your cheap shot at our President was not appreciated.

And nearly 88,000 Americans die from alcohol related causes annually.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by Cathy H

begin by re-instating the national law to stop selling automatic military rifles to anyone; then offer buy-back for assualt-type rifles now out there (like they did in Australia); stop all gun-show sales that do not do back-ground checks; strengthen the background check system for all gun purchases; do not allow ownership of multiple guns; introduce new gun safety technology in gun manufacture. 32000 americans die from gunshots every year. your cheap shot at our President was not appreciated.

First automatic weapons are not being sold to the general public. Although it is possible to buy a fully automatic weapon, you first acquire a special license from ATF, then the cheapest automatic weapon I saw was about $20K. There is nothing special about an assault style weapon. To limit the number of guns, to limit the style of a weapon when it is common use is already been adjudicated by the SCOTUS as prohibited by the constitution's 2nd Amendment. The only things you mentioned that are a possibility is to strengthen background checks and maybe, and that's a big maybe, require background checks on all sales. Which in this case and all of the others would have stopped nothing. An Australia style gun grap in the US would be unconstitutional.