[Keefelane66]

Ponder this

Will a hot water line freeze before the cold water line?

Hot water can in fact freeze faster than cold water for a wide range of experimental conditions. This phenomenon is extremely counterintuitive, and surprising even to most scientists, but it is in fact real.

[Keefelane66]

Ponder this

How Does Density Affect A Ship's Draft?

In seawater, ships and boats float higher than in freshwater, because the weight of the boat is equal to the weight of water displaced by the boat. The density of seawater is higher and a smaller amount of seawater is to be displayed to keep a ship afloat.

[Bogie Shooter]

My head is beginning to ache.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

My head is beginning to ache.

Put some ice water on it.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by tuccillo

There are three factors at work. Number 1: Ice on land melting increases the sea level by adding water to the oceans. Number 2: The warming of the oceans causes an increase in the volume and therefore an increase in the sea levels. Number 3: In many areas, the land is subsiding (sinking) and this makes it appear that the sea level is rising. This phenomenon varies greatly. For example, it is a big factor along the Gulf of Mexico.

You're absolutely right on all of those. Kudos. Of course, I don't think we agree on THE CAUSE of it.

[mntlblok]

Originally Posted by Whitley

Be patient with me, my masters is in corporate finance. The first law of thermodynamics, matter can neither be created nor destroyed. When I was much younger I would consider that all of the water that has been or will be is already here. Ocean has evaporation, clouds form, when a certain saturation is reached it rains (or snows) and the water falls to the earth. It may land on land as snow or ice or rain. Rain that falls anywhere, or frozen precipitation that falls in water will flow back to the seas. (Kind of makes me wonder about the water we drink, but that too makes its way back I guess). I would propose the sea level can increase based on melting of ice on land. Icebergs or glaciers floating in the sea should have no effect on the sea level when it melts. Only ice now on land, as it melts, would add to the sea level. Overly simplified but I need it to be. Sorry if I am boring or wrong. I understand the above. What I do not understand is how the sea level could increase over 100 years, 1.5 feet off Main, 1 foot in NYC, 1.5 feet in Chesapeake bay and the outer banks of NC, and only 1 foot in Miami. These are all part of the same continent on the Atlantic. Can someone explain it to me, simply? Maybe after that we can discuss how water we drink gets back to the ocean (I fear the answer)

Simply, it is *exactly* why I occasionally miss a putt. Areas with substandard gravity in place.

[tuccillo]

Of course I'm right. Do you think I make this stuff up? I studied it in undergraduate and graduate school for 10 years and then practiced it for 40 years. What you think is the cause is not relevant. Nobody who makes decisions listens to you, or to me either for that matter.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

You're absolutely right on all of those. Kudos. Of course, I don't think we agree on THE CAUSE of it.

[Whitley]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

You are correct with respect to floating ice that melts. Actually, ice floats in water with 89 percent of the ice being below the water surface, and 11 percent being above the water level. This is true with floating icebergs in the ocean. But, not all ice in nature is floating. A lot of glaciers are actually located on the ground and are not floating in water. So, when they melt, the water level will rise significantly.

I wonder if the density difference between salt and fresh water creates a statistically significant difference?

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by tuccillo

Of course I'm right. Do you think I make this stuff up? I studied it in undergraduate and graduate school for 10 years and then practiced it for 40 years. What you think is the cause is not relevant. Nobody who makes decisions listens to you, or to me either for that matter.

No, but I don't make stuff up either. Unfortunately the "people who make decisions" may have an agenda (profit motive) that is not based on the true science. And the facts are so clouded it is hard to make a decision.

[tuccillo]

We are in an interglacial period. The earth is warming naturally plus there is anthropogenic warming also taking place. The sea levels have been rising for some time and will continue to do so, actually accelerating in their rises. The rise is currently about 0.13 inches per year based on satellite measurements.

Originally Posted by Whitley

I wonder if the density difference between salt and fresh water creates a statistically significant difference?

[tuccillo]

This is speculation. I doubt you are versed in the true science. If so, post references to support your claim. Otherwise ....

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

No, but I don't make stuff up either. Unfortunately the "people who make decisions" may have an agenda (profit motive) that is not based on the true science. And the facts are so clouded it is hard to make a decision.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by tuccillo

We are in an interglacial period. The earth is warming naturally plus there is anthropogenic warming also taking place. The sea levels have been rising for some time and will continue to do so, actually accelerating in their rises. The rise is currently about 0.13 inches per year based on satellite measurements.

Absolutely. The question is how much warming is due to human activity. Since you state you are an expert, you already know that sea levels over the past 4 1/2 million years have varied by as much as 400-500 feet. You also know this has been a repetitive cycle lasting 60-100,000 years each time. So, even if we give A LOT of importance to anthropogenic warming, sea levels rise 600 feet and come 25,000 years instead of 30,000???? I do hope, as an expert, you don't believe any of this will affect our grandchildren or even 100 generations going forward.

[tuccillo]

I never stated I was an expert. I do, however, know a fair amount about meteorology and methods of solutions for the N-S equations. The experts in climate dynamics are still working at a number of research organizations around the world. I have been retired for a bit. Most people don't understand the concept of time scales. The concern is what happens over the next 100 years. The longer term time scales, probably driven by the Milanvovitch cycles, are not the concern. The best estimate of the anthropogenic surface temperature anomaly is about 1C. This may very well grow to 2-3C over the next 100 years. That is the concern and it is a legitimate concern for geopolitical reasons. Please stop with the strawman arguments about the next so many tens of thousands of years. That is not the concern or the focus. Also, if your focus is on the political response to the scientific data about climate change then find another audience.

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Absolutely. The question is how much warming is due to human activity. Since you state you are an expert, you already know that sea levels over the past 4 1/2 million years have varied by as much as 400-500 feet. You also know this has been a repetitive cycle lasting 60-100,000 years each time. So, even if we give A LOT of importance to anthropogenic warming, sea levels rise 600 feet and come 25,000 years instead of 30,000???? I do hope, as an expert, you don't believe any of this will affect our grandchildren or even 100 generations going forward.

[tophcfa]

Ya ya ya, whatever. Does any of this nonsense effect the price or availability of tee times?

[Keefelane66]

Originally Posted by Whitley

I wonder if the density difference between salt and fresh water creates a statistically significant difference?

Been there done that. My first trip to Antarctica. Reaching what is called Fast Ice the edge of the Ross Ice Shelf Dec 24, 1969. The sea ice does have a slight salt taste most of the salt is dissipated during freezing. Where as Glasier ice is fresh water I have tasted both. Yes there may be yellow snow in Antarctica ice shelf thanks to seals.