[dbussone]

Originally Posted by evelyn218

I am from Newtown. I believe one handgun is ok. But tell me why you or anyone else needs to have or store multi military weapons in their home? You are to blame and you are the murderer when the "crazy" person gets their hands on these weapons and uses them. Stop blaming the mentally ill. It's your fault. It will take a long time but we have to do something to control this. By the way, what is your mental status to need to have all these weapons handy.

Your initial premise is in error. The general public cannot purchase military weapons. If you re-read the thread you will learn that there are numerous posters who correctly report this fact.

The Newtown shooter had a mental defect which should not be overlooked. Background checks almost always fail to reveal this information because your federal government fails to make the states report this important personal information. Instead, the Feds depend on self reporting by the individual. This is a huge and problematic defect in the background check system.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by evelyn218

I am from Newtown. I believe one handgun is ok. But tell me why you or anyone else needs to have or store multi military weapons in their home? You are to blame and you are the murderer when the "crazy" person gets their hands on these weapons and uses them. Stop blaming the mentally ill. It's your fault. It will take a long time but we have to do something to control this. By the way, what is your mental status to need to have all these weapons handy.

You are entitled to your opinion. However in expressing it, it is very obvious you do not know very much about what and why LEGITIMATE gun enthusisats do what they do and why they have "so many guns".

I thought I was done posting on this thread however I cannot let an incorrect comment (which may or may not be intended) pass.

So for the poster I will give one very small example. There is a sport in the USA and in many foeeign countris call Cowboy Action Shooting. It involves play actiong of the wild west days. We dress in period cowboy attire. We shoot what are called stages. Each stage is different and has targets that require the use of a long rifle, a sotgun and two "6 shooters". And yes we use real bullets. Diferent meets call for different guns. So this one example shows that one needs a minimum of four guns to participate. Most of us have two or three times that just for this sport. More than 100,000 members world wide. SShooting once per month at most clubs but enough clubs that one could shoot every weekend. Zero gun involved or related accidents.

That is just one sport. Many of us are involved in several other shooting sports which means even more guns.

Why do fisherman have more than one pole?
Why do tennis players have more than one raquet?
Why do golfers have way more clubs than are required to play the game?
And so on.
And on.
And on.

Millions of good people with millions of weapons enjoying the sports they enjoy.

And I will be if I will sit idly by and let people, too many of which have absolutely no idea what they are talking about....bad mouth what we do because of some 1% wacko and other reasons kill somebody.

IT IS NOT THE GUNS!!!!

My commentary above is not aimed at the poster. My example is in the hopes of educating.

[Steve9930]

I've read through most of these posts and it the same arguments. Reminds me of a Merry-Go-Round. A round and round we go. Look at the facts:

1) All these shootings occurred in a gun free zone by a mentally ill person. In all the cases the guns were legally obtained. Yep in a lot of cases they passed a background check.

2) Had the people had a chance to defend themselves or proper security was provided the out comes would have been different.

3) Its not the responsibility of the Government to make sure you are safe, its your responsibility.

4) There is not one suggestion made by those that promote gun legislation that would have prevented any of these tragedies.

5) The right to bare arms is guaranteed by the 2nd amendment of the constitution. There is nothing in there that says I can only have one weapon. Driving and other activities are not rights, but privileges. No mention in the constitution.

6) Switzerland issues a gun to every household. There are no mass shootings in Switzerland.

7)The most shootings are in places where there are very strict guns laws.

8) Criminals do not follow laws that is why they are criminals.

9) The weapons used are not assault weapons. They are semi-automatic rifles that are based on the frame of an assault weapon. They do not have the fire power of an assault weapon.

10) The current law does not allow you to make a living by selling guns at gun shows. This is a current law, its not enforced.


I could go on forever. This I know for a fact, it will happen again. It will happen again because the leadership of this country; first response; was to politicize the incident even before all the facts were known. I can understand the distrust because even though there is talk of no confiscation, the politicians are quick to bring up countries that have tried to solve their problem by confiscation. The current leadership is not interested in solving the problem, their interested in playing politics.

[MDLNB]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

I've read through most of these posts and it the same arguments. Reminds me of a Merry-Go-Round. A round and round we go. Look at the facts:

1) All these shootings occurred in a gun free zone by a mentally ill person. In all the cases the guns were legally obtained. Yep in a lot of cases they passed a background check.

2) Had the people had a chance to defend themselves or proper security was provided the out comes would have been different.

3) Its not the responsibility of the Government to make sure you are safe, its your responsibility.

4) There is not one suggestion made by those that promote gun legislation that would have prevented any of these tragedies.

5) The right to bare arms is guaranteed by the 2nd amendment of the constitution. There is nothing in there that says I can only have one weapon. Driving and other activities are not rights, but privileges. No mention in the constitution.

6) Switzerland issues a gun to every household. There are no mass shootings in Switzerland.

7)The most shootings are in places where there are very strict guns laws.

8) Criminals do not follow laws that is why they are criminals.

9) The weapons used are not assault weapons. They are semi-automatic rifles that are based on the frame of an assault weapon. They do not have the fire power of an assault weapon.

10) The current law does not allow you to make a living by selling guns at gun shows. This is a current law, its not enforced.


I could go on forever. This I know for a fact, it will happen again. It will happen again because the leadership of this country; first response; was to politicize the incident even before all the facts were known. I can understand the distrust because even though there is talk of no confiscation, the politicians are quick to bring up countries that have tried to solve their problem by confiscation. The current leadership is not interested in solving the problem, their interested in playing politics.

... you summed it up perfectly. And yet, there will be those that want to do something, anything so that they can soothe the guilt of their failure to make more restrictive laws that they think could have kept these things from happening. And there are those that will use this to promote their agenda of more restrictive oversight, and more control for the nanny state. They will attempt to make laws that will punish the decent/honest gun owners and will do nothing to stop the criminal or the mentally ill.

[Sandtrap328]

Originally Posted by Steve9930

I've read through most of these posts and it the same arguments. Reminds me of a Merry-Go-Round. A round and round we go. Look at the facts:

1) All these shootings occurred in a gun free zone by a mentally ill person. In all the cases the guns were legally obtained. Yep in a lot of cases they passed a background check.

2) Had the people had a chance to defend themselves or proper security was provided the out comes would have been different.

3) Its not the responsibility of the Government to make sure you are safe, its your responsibility.

4) There is not one suggestion made by those that promote gun legislation that would have prevented any of these tragedies.
Yy
5) The right to bare arms is guaranteed by the 2nd amendment of the constitution. There is nothing in there that says I can only have one weapon. Driving and other activities are not rights, but privileges. No mention in the constitution.

6) Switzerland issues a gun to every household. There are no mass shootings in Switzerland.

7)The most shootings are in places where there are very strict guns laws.

8) Criminals do not follow laws that is why they are criminals.

9) The weapons used are not assault weapons. They are semi-automatic rifles that are based on the frame of an assault weapon. They do not have the fire power of an assault weapon.

10) The current law does not allow you to make a living by selling guns at gun shows. This is a current law, its not enforced.


I could go on forever. This I know for a fact, it will happen again. It will happen again because the leadership of this country; first response; was to politicize the incident even before all the facts were known. I can understand the distrust because even though there is talk of no confiscation, the politicians are quick to bring up countries that have tried to solve their problem by confiscation. The current leadership is not interested in solving the problem, their interested in playing politics.

Well done but two obvious mistakes.

Point 5 - "bare arms" would mean roling up your sleeves so your arms are not covered.

Point 6 - Switzerland does not issue guns to every household. Go to snopes.com and check it out. Good comparison between Honduras and Switzerland there, too.

[Taltarzac725]

Combat Vets Destroy the NRA


I do worry about idiots with guns.

[TNLAKEPANDA]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

... you summed it up perfectly. And yet, there will be those that want to do something, anything so that they can soothe the guilt of their failure to make more restrictive laws that they think could have kept these things from happening. And there are those that will use this to promote their agenda of more restrictive oversight, and more control for the nanny state. They will attempt to make laws that will punish the decent/honest gun owners and will do nothing to stop the criminal or the mentally ill.

Originally Posted by Steve9930

I've read through most of these posts and it the same arguments. Reminds me of a Merry-Go-Round. A round and round we go. Look at the facts:

1) All these shootings occurred in a gun free zone by a mentally ill person. In all the cases the guns were legally obtained. Yep in a lot of cases they passed a background check.

2) Had the people had a chance to defend themselves or proper security was provided the out comes would have been different.

3) Its not the responsibility of the Government to make sure you are safe, its your responsibility.

4) There is not one suggestion made by those that promote gun legislation that would have prevented any of these tragedies.

5) The right to bare arms is guaranteed by the 2nd amendment of the constitution. There is nothing in there that says I can only have one weapon. Driving and other activities are not rights, but privileges. No mention in the constitution.

6) Switzerland issues a gun to every household. There are no mass shootings in Switzerland.

7)The most shootings are in places where there are very strict guns laws.

8) Criminals do not follow laws that is why they are criminals.

9) The weapons used are not assault weapons. They are semi-automatic rifles that are based on the frame of an assault weapon. They do not have the fire power of an assault weapon.

10) The current law does not allow you to make a living by selling guns at gun shows. This is a current law, its not enforced.


I could go on forever. This I know for a fact, it will happen again. It will happen again because the leadership of this country; first response; was to politicize the incident even before all the facts were known. I can understand the distrust because even though there is talk of no confiscation, the politicians are quick to bring up countries that have tried to solve their problem by confiscation. The current leadership is not interested in solving the problem, their interested in playing politics.

T

You are right on the money here!

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Combat Vets Destroy the NRA


I do worry about idiots with guns.

Really? Your source is an incredibly biased story in an ultra liberal publication?

So they were able to find two combat veterans that support their position. Do you think that they could have found any with different opinions?

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

Really? Your source is an incredibly biased story in an ultra liberal publication?

So they were able to find two combat veterans that support their position. Do you think that they could have found any with different opinions?

From the linked The Nation article:

Dabid Chipman says the Secret Service’s history is instructive. “Here’s an agency that has all the weaponry that they could ever need, all the training that they could ever need, and they’ve never fired a weapon in defense of a president during an assassination attempt. You’re trained to throw your body in front of the protectee, not to open fire. Just look at the picture taken immediately after Reagan was shot and count the guns in that photograph. They’re all being held by highly-trained experts and not one of them fired. They didn’t shoot [would-be assassin John] Hinckley. And that’s because you’re likely to do more harm than good in that situation.”

[dillywho]

Banning guns is not the answer. Creating more laws is not the answer. There are plenty of laws on the books now, most of which are enforced. Those only work for the responsible gun owners. Key word: Responsible.

I do not believe that these killings are totally a mental health issue. Like so many other crimes (purse snatchings, etc.), many are crimes of opportunity. Anyone who takes another's life, other than in self defense, has a mental problem whether diagnosed or not.

We rave about the illegals, the drug trafficking, prostitution, drunk driving, and the list goes on. There are laws there that are not obeyed, either. How did prohibition work out back in the 20's? It simply lead to the criminal element getting stronger and more crime against law-abiding citizens, law enforcement, and the other criminals in the same business of illegal booze. Ban guns and the criminal element will flourish. They would love nothing better.

People who want to kill will find a way. Gang members have no shortage of guns. How many of those were obtained legally? How many illegal knives (yes, there are laws governing knives) do they have? A kid back home was intentionally killed when another one used his dad's Cadillac to drive into some others and he didn't get away in time, but was then targeted even after he was down and hit again. The killer was from an affluent family and he and his buddies didn't agree with the "punk" look. Other examples from McVeigh on abound.

Ban the guns, crime will increase by whatever means a person choses. Take the guns and watch the bombings start cropping up for those intent on mass killing. They will find a way. Count on it.

Guns, knives, bombs, or whatever don't kill. People do.

[billethkid]

Those in favor of more laws, restrictions or what ever....are they really proposing the organization that runs the post office, Amtrak, illegal immigration to have ANY effect on gun violence?

Right now there is selective enforcement of the gun laws and rules on the books, just like all the above. So just waht leads some to think there is a magic solution by imposing more laws and rules? Doesn't work anywhere else.

For those who might consider this political....that is not the intent....you are entitled to your opinion....right or wrong.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328

Well done but two obvious mistakes.

Point 5 - "bare arms" would mean roling up your sleeves so your arms are not covered.

Point 6 - Switzerland does not issue guns to every household. Go to snopes.com and check it out. Good comparison between Honduras and Switzerland there, too.

Thanks for the corrections. As I get older the mind is a terrible thing to waste. I think I got that waste part correct. Thanks for the snoops thing also I'll take a look. There are two other references one is by Bill Whittle and the other is a video by, I believe, a Harvard Econ. Professor who relates a story about one of his students from China who has a take on why Democracy worked here in America and why we are having these problems. Very interesting concept and it has to do with America becoming less religious oriented and leaning toward secularism. The Bill Whittle video uses 2012 statistics and I did check them and they were correct.

On another note. It appears the Mother knew her son had mental problems. In a number of these cases now there were people that knew there was a problem but did nothing. I personally have a story where I lost some one I knew at work but the family ignored the problem. One thing to remember if some one never owned a gun and all of a sudden buys one and if that person has a problem with depression, please intervene, this is a major red flag. I believe the answer is in each other not in government.

[pappy1]

Originally Posted by outlaw

We already have background checks. I still don't like the idea of having to be in a government database, fingerprints on file, just to achieve my 2nd amendment right. I have a CWP and I resent the government "allowing" me my right to self protection. That is a basic human right in my opinion. Requiring background checks, finger printing, license and license fee are "infringing" on my 2nd A right.

Let's see -
no background checks - I do believe that every time you buy an airline ticket Homeland Security is doing some kind of check on you just so you can get a boarding pass. Then you literally go through a scan to be able to get on the plane.
Finger printing - As I remember you have your finger print scanned just to get into Disney!
License / license fees - You do have a drivers license I'm guessing. To get that, the State of Florida does a search on you and you pay a license fee. If you play golf in The Villages you probably a golf cart path license fee.

I think maybe you've already been "infringed" on at least once.

Just guessing.

[tuccillo]

Your comparisons are a bit "apples to oranges". Driving requires resources that must be paid for and is a privilege and not a right. I haven't seen a "golf cart path license fee" in The Villages.

Originally Posted by pappy1

Let's see -
no background checks - I do believe that every time you buy an airline ticket Homeland Security is doing some kind of check on you just so you can get a boarding pass. Then you literally go through a scan to be able to get on the plane.
Finger printing - As I remember you have your finger print scanned just to get into Disney!
License / license fees - You do have a drivers license I'm guessing. To get that, the State of Florida does a search on you and you pay a license fee. If you play golf in The Villages you probably a golf cart path license fee.

I think maybe you've already been "infringed" on at least once.

Just guessing.

[Steve9930]

Originally Posted by Sandtrap328

Well done but two obvious mistakes.

Point 5 - "bare arms" would mean roling up your sleeves so your arms are not covered.

Point 6 - Switzerland does not issue guns to every household. Go to snopes.com and check it out. Good comparison between Honduras and Switzerland there, too.

My second response to your kind post.

Thanks for the snopes reference. It was very good. I also found a few more articles. Here is what I took from reading them. Even though the Swiss have a gun culture, they also have a great support network in education of gun safety and familiarity, early introduction into guns, mental support, and a good economy. They have deep patriotic roots that realize that the weapon is what they need to protect themselves. Like I had said earlier and I believe the Swiss model supports my statement, the answer is not in regulations but with in ourselves.