[graciegirl]

The thread on the awful shooting in San Bernardino has been taken over as a debate on guns.


I am worried about the insidious threat by a group defined by a religion. Being critical of anyone because of their religion is a no no, and yet a woman in Kentucky who is very far right was highly criticized for not issuing marriage licenses to gay people. I don't agree with that but she was acting according to her extreme religious beliefs. This group of Islamic terrorists are very conservative and very devout. Who can argue that that usually is an alright thing. Those folks usually become pastors and priests and Rabbi's and nuns and teachers in Christian schools...nice things, or at least fairly understandable to most of us. But this is a different thing going on.


I don't know anyone who really knows well someone who is wearing a burka or a cap. I don't know anyone who is a scholar of the Koran. I think that Islamic people who dress like westerners aren't radicalized, BUT Syeed Farook dressed like a westerner in his job as a health inspector.


We could usually tell if a family member was heading toward the convent because they would go to daily Mass and not hit their brother as often. But Islamic MEN go to the Mosque three times a day. (The women aren't allowed to go to the Mosque to pray, just for the PTA and stuff like that or am I wrong?)


I am not worried about this for us in The Villages because we don't have a large Muslim community but we moved from a subdivision with a mosque and my children and friends still live there.


How can we know when an Islamic person is heading along the path to being devout? Their family isn't going to tell on them, because I think they must be kinda proud of that.


Please don't be angry at me. This is on my mind. Does anyone know more than I do on this subject? I know it is probably politically incorrect to discuss it.

[Jima64]

Unfortunately a lot of very good people get lumped together with those few that become radicalized. Do all western militia or people that hate something go nuts and shoot people? Do all white supremist go out and shoot people? We have to learn to deal with these problems because they are here at home in this great country. It is very difficult with extreme religious groups because we tend to be politically correct in dealing with them.

[Taltarzac725]

We should be encouraging Muslims to watch other Muslims for signs of being radicalized. That means keeping them our friends by treating them in a Christian manner according to the Golden Rule of doing undo others as you would have to yourself.

Muslims would be most attune to what's in The Koran and also what are the teachings of their local leaders in that community.

I do not have any Muslim friends that I know of here in the Villages but probably have some on my Facebook page. I do not ask their religion when they befriend me or I befriend them.

[RickeyD]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

We should be encouraging Muslims to watch other Muslims for signs of being radicalized. That means keeping them our friends by treating them in a Christian manner according to the Golden Rule of doing undo others as you would have to yourself.

Muslims would be most attune to what's in The Koran and also what are the teachings of their local leaders in that community.

I do not have any Muslim friends that I know of here in the Villages but probably have some on my Facebook page. I do not ask their religion when they befriend me or I befriend them.

Good luck with that.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

We should be encouraging Muslims to watch other Muslims for signs of being radicalized. That means keeping them our friends by treating them in a Christian manner according to the Golden Rule of doing undo others as you would have to yourself.

Muslims would be most attune to what's in The Koran and also what are the teachings of their local leaders in that community.

I do not have any Muslim friends that I know of here in the Villages but probably have some on my Facebook page. I do not ask their religion when they befriend me or I befriend them.

This is not what I am seeing in this mornings papers and online.................

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by RickeyD

Good luck with that.

Actually there are a lot of Muslim groups which are speaking out against the violence done by ISIS as many Muslims have also died in violence by ISIS. The majority of people killed by ISIS are MUSLIMS! Beyond Paris: 10,000s Of Muslims Killed By ISIS Since Declaring Caliphate

Muslim condemnations of ISIS-- Here Are the (Many) Muslim Condemnations of ISIS You've Been Looking For - The Bridge Initiative | A Research Project on Islamophobia

[DeanFL]

Gracie,
Of course this is a valid conversation (actually I dislike how that word is now being used politically-wise...) topic.

1. I'm afraid some on the forum will hijack and deep-end it.
2. Speaking of deep-end...Trump statement. OMG, has a bit of validity as far as concerns regarding this group, but.
3. Religious conflicts have gone on for centuries - including Muslim vs XXXXreligions.
4. Current tools in use are not totally effective to ID some (esp Homegrown) radical Muslims - they are using encrypting comms that we cannot overcome yet. scary.
5. In my opinion a % are living amongst us - case in point SB. How many & where - even the FBI can't tell and they are overwhelmed following the Known ones on shore.
6. I'm not a gun-toter but if I lived in a mixed community outside the bubble - sure would.
7. I do have concern for public gatherings such as Squares/theatres etc - even here.
8. Am very concerned that some U.S. mosques are learning grounds for potential extremists - WHY DON"T THE MODERATE MUSLIMS SPEAK OUT???? And now we are finding out that Farook's father (and possibly entire family) are jew-haters.
9. I strongly dislike that so much of the Pres' speech time and the Att General's recent speech focused on violence towards Muslims etc - studies show that hate/violence against jews in the US is 60% of all, Muslims 15% - silence by Washington.
10. Of course we all don't want what happened to Japanese citizens in the US during WWII, but we absolutely cannot discount that ALL Muslim citizens are 100% patriotic - to OUR country. How large is the supposed Trojan Horse here - now and future?

I could go on, but pause for now.

[RickeyD]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Actually there are a lot of Muslim groups which are speaking out against the violence done by ISIS as many Muslims have also died in violence by ISIS. The majority of people killed by ISIS are MUSLIMS! Beyond Paris: 10,000s Of Muslims Killed By ISIS Since Declaring Caliphate

Link me a video showing a large group of Muslims demonstrating in public against the Caliphate, in this country or any other. Show me their disdain and indignation towards their fellow Muslims who have committed atrocities in the name of Allah. I'm waiting for your prompt reply.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by RickeyD

Link me a video showing a large group of Muslims demonstrating in public against the Caliphate, in this country or any other. Show me their disdain and indignation towards their fellow Muslims who have committed atrocities in the name of Allah. I'm waiting for your prompt reply.

Home - Not In My Name

Check the groups in the US also doing this after the UK group started it. https://www.facebook.com/notinmynameISIS/

'Not in my name': Muslims rally in Italy - The Local

These Muslims are taking much more of a risk too doing this. https://www.facebook.com/14446726091...type=3&fref=nf

https://www.facebook.com/Muslims-Aga...62/?fref=photo

[RickeyD]

I'm not talking Internet, I'm talking real life get out on the street and show people what they really stand for. Beheadings occur in real time not photoshopped to FB.

[Cedwards38]

How do we know when a Christian person (or anyone else) is heading along the path to extremism? We don't. We accept a person's religion in America, and having that freedom means we can sometimes be abused.

Religion has done an incredible amount of good in this world. It has also done an incredible amount of bad. Extremism of any sort is nearly always a disaster waiting to happen. It's a mental disorder. We are bigger and stronger than that. I believe in the Christian principle of "do to others what you want done to you." I say worship your God as you see fit as long as it doesn't impose any hardship on me. I'll do the same. Keep religion out of government, including schools, and in the churches and homes where it belongs.

I pray that America doesn't let fear and misunderstanding, and destructive group think, and bloviating political demigogs make us lose our heads. Let's do those things in our society that help us avoid the terrorist disasters like San Bernardino and Colorado Springs, but not at the loss of our freedoms and basic principles. Let's have open and non partisan discussions, in a respectful climate, using compromise and reason to find solutions to these problems.

Topics might include:

(1) Gun control
(2) Immigration screening standards
(3) Intelligence gathering
(4) Individual privacy standards
(5) Separation of church and state
(6) Political campaign funding
(7) Law enforcement standards

and I'm sure there are others. I dare say that no one has a complete and thorough solution, but using reason and cooperation, over time, might show the way.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Cedwards38

How do we know when a Christian person (or anyone else) is heading along the path to extremism? We don't. We accept a person's religion in America, and having that freedom means we can sometimes be abused.

Religion has done an incredible amount of good in this world. It has also done an incredible amount of bad. Extremism of any sort is nearly always a disaster waiting to happen. It's a mental disorder. We are bigger and stronger than that. I believe in the Christian principle of "do to others what you want done to you." I say worship your God as you see fit as long as it doesn't impose any hardship on me. I'll do the same. Keep religion out of government, including schools, and in the churches and homes where it belongs.

I pray that America doesn't let fear and misunderstanding, and destructive group think, and bloviating political demigogs make us lose our heads. Let's do those things in our society that help us avoid the terrorist disasters like San Bernardino and Colorado Springs, but not at the loss of our freedoms and basic principles. Let's have open and non partisan discussions, in a respectful climate, using compromise and reason to find solutions to these problems.

Topics might include:

(1) Gun control
(2) Immigration screening standards
(3) Intelligence gathering
(4) Individual privacy standards
(5) Separation of church and state
(6) Political campaign funding
(7) Law enforcement standards

and I'm sure there are others. I dare say that no one has a complete and thorough solution, but using reason and cooperation, over time, might show the way.

Thanks for your level headed approach and decency.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by RickeyD

I'm not talking Internet, I'm talking real life get out on the street and show people what they really stand for. Beheadings occur in real time not photoshopped to FB.

You do not get it. That Italian rally is real and ISIS does go after fellow Muslims who condemn it. You think a two hour march is going to have less of an impact than social media? Social media is how many of these Muslims are radicalized.

[RickeyD]

I do get it. Every time I walk down Vesey St. I get visions of people jumping to their deaths choosing that over burning alive. I hear people screaming and see people running. We are at war my friend. and the time to understand another's culture or religion is for another time, not now.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by RickeyD

I do get it. Every time I walk down Vesey St. I get visions of people jumping to their deaths choosing that over burning alive. I hear people screaming and see people running. We are at war my friend. and the time to understand another's culture or religion is for another time, not now.

9/11 was Al Qaeda. ISIS is a different country and different group of extremists and a different decade. We are at war with ISIS not with all Muslims or even with just some Muslims. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islami...and_the_Levant

Institute for the Study of War