[billethkid]

Originally Posted by joerocker

People have a right to their own opinion just as you do. Respect that and accept it. Not everyone will share your views.

BINGO!!!!! All violators take heed!

[redwitch]

Originally Posted by joerocker

Red, do you see the irony?

You do yourself what you hate others for doing. Judging. Unfairly.

People have a right to their own opinion just as you do. Respect that and accept it. Not everyone will share your views.

No, I really don't see any irony. I am NOT judging unfairly. I've seen what bigotry can do to others. It is as ugly as rape. It is as cruel and heartless as a serial killer. I will always respect a bigot's right to feel as they do but that doesn't mean I have to like it nor do I have to tolerate hearing it. A bigot will never be welcome in my home nor at any table at which I sit.

I don't look at someone and automatically assume that s/he is a bigot (unless they happen to be wearing a KKK sheet with insignia or the dressed like a Brown Shirt or in full SS uniform) any more than I would assume the woman wearing the Democrat t-shirt is a good person. That would be judging unfairly. I judge each person on their merits -- their words, their deeds -- not their appearance, their status, their wealth.

If you use racially bigoted words, it is reasonable to assume you are a bigot. If you say stereotypical things about another because of the way they dress, the color of their skin, their choice of a god, then I'm going to assume that at the very least you are prejudiced. If you physically try to act on your words, I'm going to do everything in my power to stop you from doing so.

So, where am I judging unfairly? Where am I denying a bigot the right to think and feel whatever it feels? I'll just be damned if they'll use those kind of words around me and I certainly don't have to associate with them.

[ilovetv]

Don't ya just love it when "open-minded" and "accepting" people campaigning and researching against prejudicial labeling and conclusions STEREOTYPE millions of people based on a flimsy 14-yr-old study with only 71 people in it???

[njbchbum]

Can anyone be prejudiced and/or bigoted if they never verbalize an opinion/a statement one way or the other?

[2BNTV]

OK, Lou, I'll bite.

We are all prejuiced to some extent, if we are riased in a famuily that had stong predjedices. It seems to rub off as we had heard it, so many times.

When we turn 18, we all have a rsponsibility to ourselves, to think for ourselves, and reject thoughts, that are not right. Are we perfect?

NO!!!

We owe it to ourselve,s to become an open fair minded person, who rejects discrimination and biases, that are held by our parents, and do what is right.

In a perect world, there would be no predejuice and hateful things, that are done to other people. It cannot be chalked up to, "man's inhumanity to man".

Nuff said..........

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

You are right Joe.

There will be bitterness and ugliness in this thread.


And it was not started in order to educate and to bring peace.

I read every post and see calm honest opinions and discussions. No bitterness and ugliness here. I try to wait and not prejudge others.

[joerocker]

Originally Posted by njbchbum

Can anyone be prejudiced and/or bigoted if they never verbalize an opinion/a statement one way or the other?

Yes, they're just afraid to speak their minds because it's politically incorrect and they get "beat up" when they say something.

Originally Posted by 2BNTV

OK, Lou, I'll bite.

We are all prejuiced to some extent, if we are riased in a famuily that had stong predjedices. It seems to rub off as we had heard it, so many times.

When we turn 18, we all have a rsponsibility to ourselves, to think for ourselves, and reject thoughts, that are not right. Are we perfect?

NO!!!

We owe it to ourselve,s to become an open fair minded person, who rejects discrimination and biases, that are held by our parents, and do what is right.

In a perect world, there would be no predejuice and hateful things, that are done to other people. It cannot be chalked up to, "man's inhumanity to man".

Nuff said..........

My case was opposite. There was no prejudice or bigotry in my family. We were free to find our own truths. And that's exactly what happened. Through life experiences I've found my "truths". Most are not what I've been told all my life.

Stereotypes are for the most part accurate, it's how they become stereotypes. If they weren't, they'd die out and be forgotten. These things live on because they ARE accurate.

Yes, we DO owe it to ourselves to become open minded and search for the truth. Things continue to get worse when a problem isn't addressed. We have problems that aren't getting addressed because we're not allowed to discuss them.

We don't live in a perfect world, deal with it accordingly. People are just another animal inhabiting this planet. We're not as superior as we think we are. Most people are basically "out for themselves". You can't legislate that innate behavior away.

[graciegirl]

I think I recognize you Joe. And you speak a lot of truths. But...if you are who I think you are, you went too far for me.


And if you are a new poster, I apologize.

[BarryRX]

Stereotype: To unfairly believe that all people or things with a particular characteristic are the same.

Joe.....you couldn't be more wrong.

[PennBF]

A good book on this subject is "The Believing Brain from Ghosts and Gods to Politics and Conspiracies". by Michael Shermer. Not to take away from the Author but an underlying theory is that first the Brain decides what it wants to believe and they goes about the process of developing proof of the belief. That is opposed to first developing proof and then deciding a belief. I think an example of this is that as children we are taught a religion and as we grow we develop support and reasons for our religion. In other words we are first given a belief and then go about proving it is the right belief. Interesting theory?

[gomoho]

I would actually take that theory from the book you mention one step further that our brain proceeds to go about either proving or refuting that belief. Otherwise we would grow up accepting and believing everything we are told as children and we don't do that - we question things and come to our own truths.

[PennBF]

This is one of those challenging theories. As we grow up and disregard our teaching as children we develop beliefs. Are these beliefs because of full discovery of proofs or at some point do we decide what we believe and then go about prooving it. At every point of our thoughts we decide on a belief and then go about "proving" it. It may come from our parents, our teachers, professors, or just a friend? Is there such a case where the person does extensive research and based on that decides on a position. Probably. but it may be that each point of being convinced the individual is creating proof based on a belief. One illustration is the person who submits they have the "truth" of something. I think the very best illustration of all of this is go to 10 different person(s) who profess their religion is the "truth"...??? I am a religious person but keep a positive eye as to how and why I got there?

[joerocker]

Originally Posted by BarryRX

Stereotype: To unfairly believe that all people or things with a particular characteristic are the same.

Joe.....you couldn't be more wrong.

Ok...then "typing" is what we do and should do. We see similarities between groups and through experience can predict similar behavior from other members of the same group. Just drop the "stereo", the "unfair" part. Drawing conclusions as to others future actions is a crucial part of maturation and development. Otherwise you keep falling for the same "tricks" over and over. I don't know why "typing" is officially frowned upon. Thieves steal over and over. Pedophiles molest over and over. Other groups have habitual "weaknesses" over and over. Only their actions are deemed "acceptable" and "typing" them verboten.

Originally Posted by PennBF

A good book on this subject is "The Believing Brain from Ghosts and Gods to Politics and Conspiracies". by Michael Shermer. Not to take away from the Author but an underlying theory is that first the Brain decides what it wants to believe and they goes about the process of developing proof of the belief. That is opposed to first developing proof and then deciding a belief. I think an example of this is that as children we are taught a religion and as we grow we develop support and reasons for our religion. In other words we are first given a belief and then go about proving it is the right belief. Interesting theory?

Originally Posted by gomoho

I would actually take that theory from the book you mention one step further that our brain proceeds to go about either proving or refuting that belief. Otherwise we would grow up accepting and believing everything we are told as children and we don't do that - we question things and come to our own truths.

Michael Shermer also does a newsletter called "sceptic".

Confirmation bias. When you only listen to and accept that which agrees with your current view. If you like something, you only recognize that which is positive towards it. If you don't, you only recognize that which is negative towards it. It's a very common thought process. Everyone does it naturally. You have to go out of your way, feel like you're wasting your time, to listen to the other side. It's a very strong natural tendency.

We are conditioned from infancy to believe this and that. For most, it's only when shown by "authority" that belief is suspended. Many lies DO extend well into adulthood. Those lies are the things "we're not supposed to discuss". Because they (people depending on us believing) don't want us to REALLY examine the issues. It's why we don't discuss religion or politics.

Many continue to carry many childhood beliefs forever.

Originally Posted by PennBF

This is one of those challenging theories. As we grow up and disregard our teaching as children we develop beliefs. Are these beliefs because of full discovery of proofs or at some point do we decide what we believe and then go about prooving it. At every point of our thoughts we decide on a belief and then go about "proving" it. It may come from our parents, our teachers, professors, or just a friend? Is there such a case where the person does extensive research and based on that decides on a position. Probably. but it may be that each point of being convinced the individual is creating proof based on a belief. One illustration is the person who submits they have the "truth" of something. I think the very best illustration of all of this is go to 10 different person(s) who profess their religion is the "truth"...??? I am a religious person but keep a positive eye as to how and why I got there?

IMO, most people believe what they're told. Be it reading, lecture, conversation, whatever. If someone "credible" says it, it's true. I think very few actually "test" what they're told. I'm one of them. Everyone who knows me knows "I'll look it up, I'll check it out". My "big" beliefs all came through my own research. That is why my views on the big things (religion, politics, individual rights, etc.), are not what most people believe. There's a lot of misinformation out there. Misdirection is a better word.

The only "truth" I know is we don't know the truth. Knowing that you can go to 10 different people and get 10 different "truths" about religion, why are you still religious? There are many completely different religions in the world. Within those major religions, there are thousands of different sects. Each professing that they know the truth. My bet, and what I believe is, none of them know "the truth".

Nice discussion...

[BarryRX]

Originally Posted by joerocker

Ok...then "typing" is what we do and should do. We see similarities between groups and through experience can predict similar behavior from other members of the same group. Just drop the "stereo", the "unfair" part. Drawing conclusions as to others future actions is a crucial part of maturation and development. Otherwise you keep falling for the same "tricks" over and over. I don't know why "typing" is officially frowned upon. Thieves steal over and over. Pedophiles molest over and over. Other groups have habitual "weaknesses" over and over. Only their actions are deemed "acceptable" and "typing" them verboten.





Michael Shermer also does a newsletter called "sceptic".

Confirmation bias. When you only listen to and accept that which agrees with your current view. If you like something, you only recognize that which is positive towards it. If you don't, you only recognize that which is negative towards it. It's a very common thought process. Everyone does it naturally. You have to go out of your way, feel like you're wasting your time, to listen to the other side. It's a very strong natural tendency.

We are conditioned from infancy to believe this and that. For most, it's only when shown by "authority" that belief is suspended. Many lies DO extend well into adulthood. Those lies are the things "we're not supposed to discuss". Because they (people depending on us believing) don't want us to REALLY examine the issues. It's why we don't discuss religion or politics.

Many continue to carry many childhood beliefs forever.



IMO, most people believe what they're told. Be it reading, lecture, conversation, whatever. If someone "credible" says it, it's true. I think very few actually "test" what they're told. I'm one of them. Everyone who knows me knows "I'll look it up, I'll check it out". My "big" beliefs all came through my own research. That is why my views on the big things (religion, politics, individual rights, etc.), are not what most people believe. There's a lot of misinformation out there. Misdirection is a better word.

The only "truth" I know is we don't know the truth. Knowing that you can go to 10 different people and get 10 different "truths" about religion, why are you still religious? There are many completely different religions in the world. Within those major religions, there are thousands of different sects. Each professing that they know the truth. My bet, and what I believe is, none of them know "the truth".

Nice discussion...

There is a flaw in your logic. Of course thieves steal and pedophiles molest. But we are talking about stereotypes and prejudice. If you says thieves steal, well that's pretty obvious. But if you were to say that Italian Americans steal because they are members of the mafia, then that is stereotyping and prejudice. No doubt there are some Italian Americans who belong to the mafia, but most do not. (please forgive me Italian Americans, I am just using a foolish stereotype to illustrate a point.) You said that "other groups" have habitual weaknesses. Why don't you let us know what you perceive those group weaknesses to be. I think that if you list them it will more likely point out your personal prejudices than actual facts. I am both Jewish and of Polish heritage (and very proud of both), so I would be particularly interested in hearing the weaknesses of my groups.

[skyguy79]

Originally Posted by joerocker

Quotes made to link post being replied to!

Originally Posted by joerocker

Ditto!

How do I get that danged "Like" button to work?

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