[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Normal

If I had to rely on technology, the road never existed, the car would have just sat there I guess. The Starke road was closed. Fortunately I read the detour signs, I didn’t have technology read all the deviations, I handled the situation quite well without it.

Which brings to question, “Just how reliable can an automated car be in all situations?” If a road suddenly floods out during a hurricane, I’d rather be in control. I would hate to have been on a Francis Scott Key Baltimore bridge and my car kept driving because of a hazardous situation hadn’t been updated yet.

But if a satellite fell out of the sky towards your car, the cameras and sensors on the car might be able to see it and avoid it while you would be unaware of it and be hit.

If we put aside those things that we are never likely to encounter, the technology is more aware than a human, more focused than a human, more accurate than a human, and quicker to react than a human.

[Normal]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

If we put aside those things that we are NEVER likely to encounter, the technology….

Ya, like you said, “NEVER”, it only happens to somebody else. Roads don’t flood in Vegas said the woman who drowned not long ago in her car in downtown Vegas during a flash flood under an overpass, NOT! Things happen.

[Bwanajim]

Hmmmm. I wonder if those will also give the government ability to turn it off when they feel like it.
It’s already been talked about in California if you go over the speed limit, they will have a governor.
Another one of our freedoms taken away

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Normal

Ya, like you said, “NEVER”, it only happens to somebody else.

No one driving across the Key Bridge was affected by the collapse.

- The collapse happened during a period of low activity
- The bridge was closed in time to prevent cars from moving across it at the time of the collapse
- Those that were killed may have been in their vehicles but the vehicles were not in motion (and certainly weren't using driverless technology)

Never seems to be a good word to use since it didn't happen to anyone.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Bwanajim

Hmmmm. I wonder if those will also give the government ability to turn it off when they feel like it.
It’s already been talked about in California if you go over the speed limit, they will have a governor.
Another one of our freedoms taken away

Talked about but not implemented.
Talked about for human-driven vehicles, not driverless technology

[Normal]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

No one driving across the Key Bridge was affected by the collapse.

- The collapse happened during a period of low activity
- The bridge was closed in time to prevent cars from moving across it at the time of the collapse
- Those that were killed may have been in their vehicles but the vehicles were not in motion (and certainly weren't using driverless technology)

Never seems to be a good word to use since it didn't happen to anyone.

Great point, closed down after the fact though. Fortunately the freighter’s engine died late in the night and not during rush hour. I recall driving near Vero Beach and Indian River a few years back when the roads were cut off because of hurricane storm surge. It wouldn’t have been a good scenario for those driving in automated vehicles.

You shouldn’t care though, as long as it was the other guy.

[Runway48]

This technology may work well in the sunny, dry southwest. But I understand it is challenged in rainy and snowy conditions that occur frequently in the rest of the country because the precipitation provides too much background reflection for the lidar systems.

[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

Amazon.com

https://www.amazon.com/Persuaders-Fr.../dp/B09S26TC3R

I think that the first book is the one which the Luddites are fighting against. . . at least I am. . . you might be going along for the ride in the second one, not sure. .

I have not read them, but listened to an hour long interview with the author about the books he wrote. . its on my list

Luddite
/ˈlʌdʌɪt/
noun
plural noun: Luddite

derogatory
1. a person opposed to new technology or ways of working.
"a small-minded Luddite resisting progress"
2.
historical
a member of any of the bands of English workers who destroyed machinery, especially in cotton and woollen mills, that they believed was threatening their jobs (1811–16).

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by Runway48

This technology may work well in the sunny, dry southwest. But I understand it is challenged in rainy and snowy conditions that occur frequently in the rest of the country because the precipitation provides too much background reflection for the lidar systems.

Never underestimate technology , not long ago I had a rental car , mine old 2008 being in the shop, the rental having much newer tech I could talk to it , asking questions, I got frustrated ,asking questions the wrong way, reverting to my inner child I used some colorful language addressing the car?computer, the car apologized, "I think of myself as a work in progress",. Fast forward several months, I now have a 2024, as an experiment I used the same language , this time the car did not give any apologies, instead it chastised me for my choice of words, at this point I think all we can do is surrender to the silicon gods that own us

[Windguy]

Originally Posted by bmcgowan13

Videos like this break down a complex subject.

It’s quite apparent that many of the negative comments here are by people who didn’t bother to watch the video because their minds were closed.

They don’t get that many things are already automated. Cars already have computers that control many functions. Elevators not longer require a person to control their motion, which was very unpopular at first.

The SpaceX Dragon crew capsule is fully automated. The Space Shuttle Orbiter had an automatic flight control system that was designed over 50 years ago. The pilots didn’t like it at all and generally avoided using it.

On the first approach and landing test of the Enterprise orbiter in 1977, the pilot got into a pilot-induced oscillation because every time he tried to correct the roll he was just a little late and each oscillation was bigger than the last. The copilot told the pilot to take his hands off the stick and the ship leveled out and landed perfectly.

Do people really think they are better drivers than an astronaut who was one of the best pilots to ever fly? I think not!

[Windguy]

Originally Posted by Normal

I recall driving near Vero Beach and Indian River a few years back when the roads were cut off because of hurricane storm surge. It wouldn’t have been a good scenario for those driving in automated vehicles.

Why? Autonomous cars are smarter than people. They wouldn’t actually drive you into the water like the idiots who think they can make it through the water. These vehicles don’t use GPS to control the car. They use vision and other sensors.

[biker1]

Huh? Teslas don't let you crawl in the backseat anymore than Toyotas do. You need to maintain pressure on the steering wheel or the inside camera must "see" you as paying attention. There have been attempts at defeating such systems, such as hanging a weight on the steering wheel, but nobody lets you crawl in the backseat. Google is your friend.

Originally Posted by MidWestIA

My 2019 Rav4 Toyota radar cruise is somewhat driverless it handles speed and turns BUT is not as arrogant as Tesla to let you crawl in the backseat. Your hand off the wheel for a few minutes gets a warning buzz and turns it off

[biker1]

Not exactly. Tesla's autopilot/full self driving system never used LiDAR. In fact, Musk famously said that using LiDAR was a fool's errand. The Tesla system is vision based although there was a period of time where they were also using radar (and perhaps the ultrasonic sensors also). Apparently, they came to the conclusion that fusing multiple sensors was not worth the effort and they are now vision based only and stopped installing radars (as well as ultra sonic sensors) on their vehicles a couple of years ago. I am not sure what role the radars on older Teslas play. I believe their latest release is entirely neural network based using only vision data having removed all of the older heuristic code.

Originally Posted by Bill14564

I like the idea of fully-approved, driverless cars. Distracted driving, driving under the influence, bad habits, poor skills, and just poor decision making cause the roads to be rather dangerous. If those drivers were sitting back in their computer-driven cars it would make things safer for all of us.

Tesla's experience shows not all full-self driving systems are ready for prime time. I noted that the system in the video uses the LiDAR sensors that Tesla removed. I will trust a certified, fully-approved system to be safe.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by biker1

Not exactly. Tesla's autopilot/full self driving system never used LiDAR. In fact, Musk famously said that using LiDAR was a fool's errand. The Tesla system is vision based although there was a period of time where they were also using radar (and perhaps the ultrasonic sensors also). Apparently, they came to the conclusion that fusing multiple sensors was not worth the effort and they are now vision based only and stopped installing radars (as well as ultra sonic sensors) on their vehicles a couple of years ago. I am not sure what role the radars on older Teslas play. I believe their latest release is entirely neural network based using only vision data having removed all of the older heuristic code.

Ah, okay, so Tesla disparaged LiDAR without ever using it and removed the other non-camera sensors. Tesla's system appears to have issues based on the number of problems reported. To be fair, no other system has the number of miles on it that Tesla does and issues arise with those systems when they are tested to the same extent.

[biker1]

Tesla continues to make good progress as the miles per human intervention (how often you need to take over) keeps improving but it is still level 2. Their vision-based neural network approach only gets better with more training data. Unlike Waymo's LiDAR systems (actually LiDAR plus vision), which only works in geo-mapped areas, Tesla's approach has the potential to work anywhere as a level 5 system. Time will tell.

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Ah, okay, so Tesla disparaged LiDAR without ever using it and removed the other non-camera sensors. Tesla's system appears to have issues based on the number of problems reported. To be fair, no other system has the number of miles on it that Tesla does and issues arise with those systems when they are tested to the same extent.