[buggyone]

Look at reality.

Scene most likely went down as Zimmerman sees Martin, calls police, follows Martin, gets in Martins face by asking why he is there, Martin gets back in Zimmermans face and pops him in the nose; they tussel, Martin is getting the best of Zimmerman, and Zimmerman uses his gun to end the fight.

Jury will decide if Zimmerman did the right thing first by following Martin and challenging him and then by shooting him when getting the worst end of the inevitable fight.

Could be actual self-defense, probably not murder, maybe manslaughter.

Jury will decide...but will also have to keep in mind (and not part of justice) how the public will react. This is NOT like the Casey Anthony case where even though the wrong verdict came out but there would be no public "demonstrations". There more than likely will be public reaction (in some manner) if Zimmerman is set free. Best thing for jury to do is to convict, Zimmerman goes to the slammer and gets out in a few years on appeal. May not be justice but may work out the best way possible. Who knows?

[DougB]

Hard job for all of them. Don West said he can't physically keep up with the pace. Looked like he wanted to throw something

[dillywho]

Originally Posted by gomoho

If this case is about self-defense how can anyone doubt what happened after the professional witness forensic medical examiner testified today. Any could someone please tell me why Trayvon didn't have a mark on him???

Remember this is not about who started it, but was GZ justified in shooting Travon 'cause he feared for his life?

Don't know the actual explanation for no marks, but it looks like for all his bravado, GZ made absolutely no effort to defend himself when he was getting beat up. Only when he "said" TM went for his gun, did he make any effort to defend himself. If, in fact, he was the one doing the screaming, how were those screams so clear and uninterrupted until the shot if TM were covering his mouth and nose? It was also surmised that the blood from GZ's nose was draining back into his throat with him on the ground. At that rate, how is it possible to be crying out for help and screaming, either. Too much just does not add up.

Based on some of today's testimony, it seems pretty disgraceful that nobody even bothered to check if TM was dead. Regardless of the fact that he was mortally wounded, the forensics pathologist today testified that he could have lived up to 3 minutes after being shot....lived being defined as still having some heartbeat. He also said that he could have moved maybe 15 seconds after being shot. If GZ turned him over, got on top of him and spread his arms to be sure he couldn't come up with a weapon, did that take less than 15 seconds? If longer, then how and when did TM move his arms back under him like they were when the police got there? Other people were there looking at TM and one was even taking pictures, yet no one saw his arms move? Something else that doesn't compute for me.

[dillywho]

Originally Posted by buggyone

Look at reality.

Scene most likely went down as Zimmerman sees Martin, calls police, follows Martin, gets in Martins face by asking why he is there, Martin gets back in Zimmermans face and pops him in the nose; they tussel, Martin is getting the best of Zimmerman, and Zimmerman uses his gun to end the fight.

Jury will decide if Zimmerman did the right thing first by following Martin and challenging him and then by shooting him.

Could be actual self-defense, probably not murder, maybe manslaughter.

Jury will decide...but will also have to keep in mind (and not part of justice) how the public will react. This is NOT like the Casey Anthony case where even though the wrong verdict came out but there would be no public "demonstrations". There more than likely will be public reaction (in some manner) if Zimmerman is set free. Best thing for jury to do is to convict, Zimmerman goes to the slammer and gets out in a few years on appeal. May not be justice but may work out the best way possible. Who knows?

There were many demonstrations before, during, and after the Anthony trial. Do you not remember all the people at all hours of the night and day at the Anthony's house yelling, screaming, grabbing at them, trampling down the neighbors yards in addition? What about all the ruckus at the courthouse with people jockeying for seats and fighting in the lines? What about all the protesters out in front with all their signs and shouting? How about all the people that showed up the night she was released? The worst thing about all that is that they hauled their own kids out at all hours to have to witness their bad behavior. Great training and examples for those little ones, huh? When asked about what he thought, one little boy's response was, "What my Mommy said." He had no clue.

Regardless of the verdict, I hope that neither side will do a repeat performance of the Anthony fiasco.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by buggyone

Look at reality.

Scene most likely went down as Zimmerman sees Martin, calls police, follows Martin, gets in Martins face by asking why he is there, Martin gets back in Zimmermans face and pops him in the nose; they tussel, Martin is getting the best of Zimmerman, and Zimmerman uses his gun to end the fight.

Jury will decide if Zimmerman did the right thing first by following Martin and challenging him and then by shooting him when getting the worst end of the inevitable fight.

Could be actual self-defense, probably not murder, maybe manslaughter.

Jury will decide...but will also have to keep in mind (and not part of justice) how the public will react. This is NOT like the Casey Anthony case where even though the wrong verdict came out but there would be no public "demonstrations". There more than likely will be public reaction (in some manner) if Zimmerman is set free. Best thing for jury to do is to convict, Zimmerman goes to the slammer and gets out in a few years on appeal. May not be justice but may work out the best way possible. Who knows?

Reality? Really? This is your version of what likely went down. The fact that they were in the vicinity of Zimmerman's car when the scuffle and shooting occurred would seem to contradict your scenario.
As I understand it, Zimmerman called to the police while following Martin. He told the police that he was following him and the police said, "We don't need you to do that." At that point Zimmerman broke off his pursuit and headed back to his car. As he approached his car, Martin came from somewhere and started demanding to know why he followed him. Martin began getting in his face and yelling, "You're going to die tonight". Some initiated physical contact. Martin ended up on top of Zimmerman pummeling him MMA style at which point Zimmerman, who feared for his life pulled out his gun and shot him.
Now I wasn't there and I haven't heard all the evidence, but this is part of what I did hear and it is a scenario that makes perfect sense.

[Monkei]

Originally Posted by Dr Winston O Boogie jr

Reality? Really? This is your version of what likely went down. The fact that they were in the vicinity of Zimmerman's car when the scuffle and shooting occurred would seem to contradict your scenario.
As I understand it, Zimmerman called to the police while following Martin. He told the police that he was following him and the police said, "We don't need you to do that." At that point Zimmerman broke off his pursuit and headed back to his car. As he approached his car, Martin came from somewhere and started demanding to know why he followed him. Martin began getting in his face and yelling, "You're going to die tonight". Some initiated physical contact. Martin ended up on top of Zimmerman pummeling him MMA style at which point Zimmerman, who feared for his life pulled out his gun and shot him.
Now I wasn't there and I haven't heard all the evidence, but this is part of what I did hear and it is a scenario that makes perfect sense.

Regardless of the jury decision Zimmerman will be hounded and his life in danger for a long long time. I wish the prosecution would entertain the question on whether Zimmerman would have followed the "suspect" if he did not have a gun on him. I don't know how you get hat question into the trial bu it's a valid question the jury should consider.

So regardless of the result Zimerman will pay a price for his actions which is only fair. Hopefully they take his carry permit away from him he has proven he does not posses the common sense and maturity to have the right to carry.

[Monkei]

Originally Posted by dillywho

There were many demonstrations before, during, and after the Anthony trial. Do you not remember all the people at all hours of the night and day at the Anthony's house yelling, screaming, grabbing at them, trampling down the neighbors yards in addition? What about all the ruckus at the courthouse with people jockeying for seats and fighting in the lines? What about all the protesters out in front with all their signs and shouting? How about all the people that showed up the night she was released? The worst thing about all that is that they hauled their own kids out at all hours to have to witness their bad behavior. Great training and examples for those little ones, huh? When asked about what he thought, one little boy's response was, "What my Mommy said." He had no clue.

Regardless of the verdict, I hope that neither side will do a repeat performance of the Anthony fiasco.

I think you can blame Nancy Grace and the non stop coverage of that trial on TV and in media for the resulting demonstrations. That case was covered way to much and I still have no idea other than Casey was somewhat attractive why that case was covered while others might get local only coverage.

[senior citizen]

We have followed 90% of the live trial. To both of us it seems very clear that it was self defense. In Florida, I assume, as in Vermont, it is legal to carry a firearm. He was registered to carry it. With all the crime we read about in the newspapers, perhaps he was just packing the gun for his own personal feeling of safety.......not necessarily as a vigilante.

It is unfortunate for any "kid" to be killed; shot dead.

However, it truly does sound like Zimmerman "feared for his life".
None of us know how we would react under those circumstances.

Some time ago, I had relayed a story of how "gangs" from the "cities" had come to our small town and a few folks did not take kindly to whatever insinuation that might have meant to them personally............but it's true. Our town was a safe town up until these city gangs (as said by our local police, our state police, out detectives, etc._ ) infiltrated our town and other small towns in our state in order to SELL DRUGS and hook the youth on drugs............awhile back our police chief did a major "drug bust" in one day, rounding up 60 folks and booking them all the same day.

These "youth" come up here, hook up with a dumb young gal, move into her apartment and the rest is history. It's not the same town we raised our family in.

Drugs are a cause of lots of crime. We are glad the judge will allow the part about the marijuana in the system.

When my husband had his jewelry store, near the end of his work life, he kept a gun in the store. He had video cameras to record the unsavory ones who entered.
They did not look like the rest of the Vermonters..........they could be spotted with the huge diamond stud earrings (men) huge gold chains (men), gang style baseball hats (oversized) and shorts hanging down to their ankles......a look the police chief and the rest of us recognized............know this is not P.C. but it's the truth.

The longtime residents are happy that the police are cracking down on drug sellers and gangs. So, packing a gun may be a necessary evil in the interim.

Bad things happen. I don't condone killing or guns.....but when society changes and people do fear for their lives.......again, things happen. We heard that this would never have even gone to trial had not the media and public attention been drawn to it. It would have just been, what it was, a tragic accident. This past week, Zimmerman had a lot of good folks speaking out for him..........positively.

Again, no one wishes to see a teenager dead. It is a sad story for everyone involved, especially the boy's parents. He was unarmed with only a can of juice and some candy skittles.........however, I do believe Zimmerman feared for his life and his head shows it. He was underneath at some point in the struggle.

None of us know what we might do. I am totally NON VIOLENT.....but if I was in Z's shoes, who knows?

[kittygilchrist]

I hope Zimmerman is found not guilty and that no lesser charges are acceptable to the jury.
Do you know that all that is necessary for jury duty is a driver's license? Having served on a couple of juries, let's just say I hope this group understands law better than a lot of drivers understand driving. In the two cases I served on, some jurors were:
gender biased
memory-challenged
unsure of what constituted evidence
afraid to make an independent decision
wanted to protect a female from jail time
apparently unable to use critical thinking

arggh. so called-justice...

[mickey100]

I suspect zimm will get off. That doesn't mean he's innocent, just that due to circumstances and the sloppy police investigation, there wasn't enough evidence to prove what really happened that night. It is troublesome to me that he has lied about a number of things, and so I do not believe all that he says. We will never know the truth.

[Parker]

Zimmerman might never have carried a gun that fateful evening if our justice system wasn't so ineffective at removing criminals from our streets. When I was young, violent people were in jail or were afraid enough of getting caught that they didn't commit the crimes in the first place. Now, everyone gets probation, or insignificant jail time, or early release due to overcrowding of the prisons, or have their charges dropped entirely. Now criminals don't appear to be afraid of getting caught.

All this has led to law-abiding people feeling the need to protect themselves and their neighborhoods. I don't think Zimmerman is a bad guy, just a guy who was trying to protect his neighborhood, and made some poor decisions in that effort. Why are we not all outraged that so many criminals run the streets? Maybe Trayvon would be alive today if we weren't all so concerned about our safety that we feel we have to rely on ourselves for protection.

[gomoho]

Originally Posted by buggyone

Look at reality.


Best thing for jury to do is to convict, Zimmerman goes to the slammer and gets out in a few years on appeal. May not be justice but may work out the best way possible. Who knows?

Wonder if you would think that way if it was you or a loved one on trial???

[senior citizen]

Originally Posted by Parker

Zimmerman might never have carried a gun that fateful evening if our justice system wasn't so ineffective at removing criminals from our streets. When I was young, violent people were in jail or were afraid enough of getting caught that they didn't commit the crimes in the first place. Now, everyone gets probation, or insignificant jail time, or early release due to overcrowding of the prisons, or have their charges dropped entirely. Now criminals don't appear to be in the much afraid of getting caught.

All this has led to law-abiding people feeling the need to protect themselves and their neighborhoods. I don't think Zimmerman is a bad guy, just a guy who was trying to protect his neighborhood, and made some poor decisions in that effort. Why are we not all outraged that so many criminals run the streets? Maybe Trayvon would be alive today if we weren't all so concerned about our safety that we feel we have to rely on ourselves for protection.

I agree totally with all that you have posted above.

We were actually raised in a city. We often recollect how as kids, our parents never warned us not to walk around our city......we did it all the time, totally unharmed. That was the 1950's.

When my mom went back to work, she had to walk to work through some pretty seedy neighborhoods with taverns, etc. and guys loitering outside.
She got out at midnight and had to retrace her steps back home.......
No one ever bothered her. She was a very petite attractive young lady.

My dad couldn't go and get her as he had to watch the children, who were sleeping at midnight.

The bar crowd seemed to know better. They never bothered anyone.
They feared the law back in those days.

Things have changed. We have young family members who live in and around college towns in North Carolina, etc. and other southern states.
The newspapers always show how young coeds are kidnapped, raped, murdered, etc.............a totally different world. And, there is no reverse discrimination to cry out against their perpetrators.

Just like in Egypt, where they are constantly protesting and rioting.....
its the squeaky wheel gets the grease..........

There is no rioting in our streets when a young coed gets attacked.
Everyone is afraid to speak up nowadays..........

With all the "smash and grab" robberies in jewelry stores all over our country, esp. when the gold prices soared.......my husband felt safer "packing a gun" as no doubt George Zimmerman did.

The questionables "from the cities" would case our store....walking around looking in the cases, but as soon as they saw the video cameras, they would hastily leave.

On the national "videos" of the smash and grab looters.......they all looked the same and fit the "gang profile" in dress, etc.

We never had our heads in the sand........although, if truth be told, we never thought our beloved adopted state would be so infiltrated by crime from "away". Luckily, they stand out like sore thumbs up here and luckily we have a young Dad who is the police chief.....a man proud of his town and wanting to keep it the way it was........as do all the detectives up and down our state.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by Monkei

Regardless of the jury decision Zimmerman will be hounded and his life in danger for a long long time. I wish the prosecution would entertain the question on whether Zimmerman would have followed the "suspect" if he did not have a gun on him. I don't know how you get hat question into the trial bu it's a valid question the jury should consider.

So regardless of the result Zimerman will pay a price for his actions which is only fair. Hopefully they take his carry permit away from him he has proven he does not posses the common sense and maturity to have the right to carry.

"common sense" and "maturity" are not included in the criteria used to grant a permit to carry. The jury will not be allowed to judge based on hypothetical situations.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by mickey100

I suspect zimm will get off. That doesn't mean he's innocent, just that due to circumstances and the sloppy police investigation, there wasn't enough evidence to prove what really happened that night. It is troublesome to me that he has lied about a number of things, and so I do not believe all that he says. We will never know the truth.

I think many decisions about this case by lay people with their minds made up were made long ago before the trial.

I am pretty sure we will have organized riots after too. And vandalism and blood shed, although all they do is cause more distress to all, solve nothing and build hatred.

I decided that a long time based on my beliefs and my common sense.

Jumping to conclusions is what we seniors do well, and some with more concern and common sense and fairness than others. If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, than it isn't an elephant. Except now because of political correctness, we aren't allowed to call it a duck.

(Talking about riots)