Points to ponder.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell122308.php3

I am frightened that we are going to see bad bad things for the end of our lives.

Originally Posted by Guest

I am frightened that we are going to see bad bad things for the end of our lives.

While I DO see some positive signs coming from President Elect Obama, I am still very afraid that the current financial crisis and the election make up the "perfect storm" !!! I do not see the same "signs" coming from congress or others who supported and financed his election....one example being the UAW...it will be very interesting how the new President handles the situation once he has the power to reverse the conditions of the auto bail out !

There is a time and a place for government involvement, and trying to rapidly change corporate and union greed isn't one of them. The best "market corrections" are those that occur without government intervention. Politics and business have always been a bad mix.

I think we need to have the American public buy more foreign cars to help our economy, last time I looked there were about 75% foreign cars in the parking lots here in TV (I wonder how many residents in TV retired from Toyota, Honda or some other foreign car manufacturer). Maybe if we can get the foreign car % ownership up closer to 90% we can turn this economy around.

It might be interesting to know what percentage of our total economy is based on the big three domestic automakers.
What percentage of our economy is spent at Walmart on Chinese goods?

If you may have some stake in the welfare of UAW, you may be biased in your argument. IMHO, the American automaker sold us planned obsolescence. The Japanese ate their lunch. It should never have been that way. We should have been at the forefront of technology. When did we stop being at the forefront?
Why did we ever allow them to build a better vehicle than we could build?
It is a scary world right now. Maybe our lawmakers and our workers should all go back and read "Atlas Shrugged" and "The Fountainhead".

Originally Posted by golfnut

I think we need to have the American public buy more foreign cars to help our economy, last time I looked there were about 75% foreign cars in the parking lots here in TV (I wonder how many residents in TV retired from Toyota, Honda or some other foreign car manufacturer). Maybe if we can get the foreign car % ownership up closer to 90% we can turn this economy around.

The economy didn't tank because Americans buy ANY foreign products, but because the American public went on a credit spending spree, caused in most part by the governments insistence that banks give loans to less than credit worthy borrowers.

How many stupid people tried to live "large" on credit? They took mortgages they couldn't afford and took "paper" equity out of their homes to buy huge American SUVs, and second homes to try to flip them.

You've heard that "it's the economy stupid"? Well it's really all those people that "lived beyond their means stupid"?

Originally Posted by gnu

The economy didn't tank because Americans buy ANY foreign products, but because the American public went on a credit spending spree, caused in most part by the governments insistence that banks give loans to less than credit worthy borrowers.

How many stupid people tried to live "large" on credit? They took mortgages they couldn't afford and took "paper" equity out of their homes to buy huge American SUVs, and second homes to try to flip them.

You've heard that "it's the economy stupid"? Well it's really all those people that "lived beyond their means stupid"?

IMHO we have become a nation of spoiled, instant gratification people that think we are OWED things...not that we need to earn ! Credit became a vehicle to get those things that we did not earn...we have to have it faster and quicker than our parents, etc. The credit became easy because money was being made by many, INCLUDING POLITICIANS !!!

We MUST HAVE and DESERVE things...such is the mindset. We are owed a college education, a large house, a car of our choice...the mindset today is that those things are our birthright and NOT things to be worked for and earned. The UAW, not only them, fell into this line of thinking...read about those who get paid for not working, etc. They believed this was owed to them and held the companies up to get it. I am not talking about a decent wage here, a good workplace....well beyond that.

Sorry if this sounds negative, but I have yet to see any evidence that my opinion is not correct.

I agree. In my business I have seen many people live beyond their means. I wish our auto companies could get it together. I would gladly buy an American car, if they built a reliable one. I got tired of driving my car out of the showroom and coming back repeatedly for repairs.

just eat your imports!!!!

BTK

Originally Posted by Guest

just eat your imports!!!!

BTK

Including the Fords and Chevys built in Mexico?

Originally Posted by Guest

just eat your imports!!!!

BTK

There's a lot more involved here than automobiles - and that's the rub. The auto industry is trying nto make themselves as the biggie, but I'm not sure they're right.

I strolled through Target yesterday and didn't find a manufactured anything that didn't have a ""Made in China" label. Target probably had Americn-made goods, but they just weren't evident. Have tried the same stroll through Walmart, with similar results. Vendor night in TV isn't much different, with the luggage, leather goods and other stuff having a "M-I-C" tag.

In a perfect economic world, money cycles through the community several times. Wages are used to buy local goods, which result in more wages, and so on and so on. The government gets its cut several times along the way, resulting in many "litte bites" instead of a couple big ones.

The US economic model is now wages buying Chinese goods, resulting in the money being taken out of the economy and sent across the Pacific. There is no cycling of the money, resulting in the "economic wheel" stopping. So, any "economic stimulus" which puts more money into consumers' pockets to spend does no good, if the spent funds are for Chinese (and other) goods resulting in the money not internally cycling.

While motor vehicle purchases are significant, the everyday purchase of foreign-made televisions, computers, vacuum cleaners, counter-top grills, picture frames, coffee cups, and other under-$1000 purchases is what's stalling the US economy.

and when pointing out non recycling of money...lest we all forget the biggie of that club....$700,000,000,000 to foreign oil suppliers and GROWING!

What you point out is an aspect of the economic cycle that the masses have no concept or understanding.

My favorite subject of lost manufacturing because of unions or cost saving measures....each and every industry...for example machine tool manufacturers...once upon a time almost all were used in USA factories...there were upwards to 800 machine tool companies here in the USA....in the late 80's that number was less than 100....

So in addition to the masses consumer product $$ not coming back..ditto for commercial and almost any other manufactured products.

No manufacturing = no jobs...no rocket science.

And when considering the future one can only look at today and safely say it will never BE THIS GOOD AGAIN...not just a prognosis...it is a continuum!!!!!

BTK

It is changing to high value added products. Steve is right when he says that the stores are filled with lots of consumer products from China. However, the nation with the largest manufacturing base in the world is the United States with 21% of the manufacturing world wide.. The US no longer makes tv's, video games, dvd players, etc. We do have the largest marketshare of the integrated circuit manufacturing.

We make more than half of all commercial and military aircraft in the world as well as better than two-thirds of the engines that power these planes. We have lost share is automobile production but dominate in construction and farm equipment. We do not make shoes, but provide the hides that are converted into leather in Brazil and then made into shoes in Italy.

We no longer sew shirts and blouses, (remember, "Look for the union label.") but do produce large quantities of engineering plastics.

Our manufacturing sector has grown steadily since WWII and shows no sign of decline. What has changed is the nature of manufacturing. The 'blue collar' worker we think of when we talk of manufacturing has in large part been replaced by people in white coats working in clean rooms. Think of drugs and medical equipment where we are so far ahead, it is hard to find second place.

Our manufacturing sector will continue to grow if new tax policies do not prop up old industries at the expense of the new and critical sectors. If we do not build cars, that is a loss, but if we lose our way in the new fields such as nano-technology, we are finished as a first rank country.

Originally Posted by samhass

It might be interesting to know what percentage of our total economy is based on the big three domestic automakers.
What percentage of our economy is spent at Walmart on Chinese goods?

If you may have some stake in the welfare of UAW, you may be biased in your argument. IMHO, the American automaker sold us planned obsolescence. The Japanese ate their lunch. It should never have been that way. We should have been at the forefront of technology. When did we stop being at the forefront?

Why did we ever allow them to build a better vehicle than we could build?
It is a scary world right now. Maybe our lawmakers and our workers should all go back and read "Atlas Shrugged" and "The Fountainhead".

I don't know what percentage of our total economy is based on the Big Three, nor do I know what percentage of our economy is spent at Wal-Mart on Chinese goods (though I do suspect it is not low). What I was told by an economist friend struck me as a staggering statistic: that 1% of the GNP of China--a huge and rapidly growing economy--is Wal-Mart alone!

The last 'Big Three' car we ever owned was a 1984 Ford. It had three warranty problems, none really major, but I had to do endless battle, fighting tooth and nail nonstop with Ford Motor Company, to get them to stand behind their warranty--and deal with the inconvenience of bringing the car back and forth, having it laid up, and so forth. I can't say--I don't know--if this was a management or a UAW or some other issue, but at that point we said 'never again,' and so it's been. Since then we've owned Honda, Toyota, and Mitsubishi and have never had such problems.

When I was a kid growing up in New York City I used to go to lectures given by Nathaniel Brandon and Ayn Rand. Both Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead are sitting on our bookshelf waiting for me to find that 'copious free time' that I thought came with retirement to re-read. And maybe it should be required reading....