Actually the wealth redistribution started 8 years ago with the Bush tax cuts. If you look around the Trickle down affect of giving money to the wealthy so that they will in turn shower it down to the middle class in the form of jobs has been totally disproven. Since the Bush tax cuts how many jobs have gone overseas? Recently 9 straight months of job losses and 750,000 jobs lost just this year.

I would have to say that your comment

Some goes into the stock and bond market so that other businesses can create JOBS!

Right about now that statement rings just a little hallow.

In this country we have job losses and wage stagnation.

I've got to admit that that's the first time I've ever heard the connection between Bush's tax cuts and job outsourcing. Sounds like quite a creative thought.

What's next? Perhaps the tax cuts are also responsible for our obesity problem. So, I guess if we raise taxes on those making more than $250K per year they will somehow be more inclined to hire expensive Americans and less inclined to hire cheap Indian/Chinese labor. Fascinating logic.

Originally Posted by cologal

Actually the wealth redistribution started 8 years ago with the Bush tax cuts. If you look around the Trickle down affect of giving money to the wealthy so that they will in turn shower it down to the middle class in the form of jobs has been totally disproven. Since the Bush tax cuts how many jobs have gone overseas? Recently 9 straight months of job losses and 750,000 jobs lost just this year.

I would have to say that your comment

Some goes into the stock and bond market so that other businesses can create JOBS!

Right about now that statement rings just a little hallow.

In this country we have job losses and wage stagnation.

TAX CUTS have nothing to do with losing jobs.. Have you ever heard of NAFTA and Clinton ?

Read the post above mine...The entire theory of Reagenomics is to cut taxes for the rich and business which will allow them to invest in new business which in turn creates jobs. But it doesn't work..

In fact McCain is proposing more tax cuts and cuts in capital gains which he says, not me, WILL CREATE MORE JOBS.

I know Clinton is evil incarnate...the source, it would seem, of all of our current problems. You guys need to get off the Fox Noise koolaid.

The Repubs also wanted a GLOBAL economy, free marketing and deregulation. And by the way when they were in power they never met a spending bill they didn't like. Bush got handled a surplus and look at us now.

I am not voting for more of the same.

things are.
I don't care what the example or the issue, the numerical minority is the only topic.....how about:
>mortgages not in default? still above 90%
>foreclosures? less than 5% of the total
>employment? 95% still working!!
>total number of taxpayers paying the majority of the taxes? a numerically small number never talked about!!!!
>total number of tax payers paying the least or no tax? a really big number we never hear about.
Just to name a few.
The media and politicos will alway only talk about the "emotional" side of a subject.

As far as socialism....I always wonder just how many people really know and understand how it really works.
How about everybody get a college education....no cost to the individual.
How about everybody gets free health care...no cost to the individual.

The only part of these two examples that is not correct is the no cost to the individuals. What is not mentioned is their tax rates are easily...EASILY...2 or 3 or 4 times ours. It also means everybody pays taxes, not just the wealthy.
It is also not mentioned that the quality of the schools is less as there is a flat compensation scale regardless of tenure or capability.
The quality of the health care suffers for similar reasons....and don't forget to get in line and wait your turn....regardless whether life threatening or not!!!

I used to have executives in socialist countries who would negotiate their compensation package on the basis of a low salary but very filled with untaxable perks that netted out to a gain.....like a new company owned luxury car....every year....all expenses/maintenance paid....always a way to skin the cat...legally I might add.

So when all these freebies add up here in the USA....rebates....bail outs...health care....and on and on....yes it is migrating toward socialism.....and YES.....your taxes will ultimately be going up.....I don't care who the candidate is that is fluffing up the hype of no increased taxes.

YOUR TAXES WILL BE GOING UP! Your life style will not be the same. Your choices will be fewer. And the silent majority will nod, get in line and continue to do nothing......as per usual.

Now who is for more government? Socialism? Free everything?

BTK

between Bush's tax cuts and job outsourcing.

Ok point taken so I will rephrase....

Since the Bush tax cuts that were supposed to create jobs how many jobs have been lost in this country?

I believe 9 straight months of job losses with 750,000 jobs lost.

Your timeframe is inappropriate for your conclusions. After the tax cuts there were millions of jobs added and a very robust economy. What we are experiencing now is the collapse of a bubble - just like the early Bush years we experienced the collapse of the Clinton/dotcom bubble economy.

Originally Posted by NJblue

Your timeframe is inappropriate for your conclusions. After the tax cuts there were millions of jobs added and a very robust economy. What we are experiencing now is the collapse of a bubble - just like the early Bush years we experienced the collapse of the Clinton/dotcom bubble economy.

Sure the standard Repub line.....Its Clinton's fault.

Keep drinking the Koolaide

No, you didn't read my post. I assigned no blame to Clinton about the bubble that occured under his administration. My only point was that bubbles are inherently unstable. When the bubble from the Clinton years collapsed, the Bush response of lowering taxes did work in terms of stimulating the economy and hence created/restored millions of jobs lost when the dotcom bubble collapsed. Now we have the collapse of the housing bubble and the resulting loss of jobs. To try to blame this on the Bush tax cuts is just plain silly - in fact one could say it is the result of drinking the Dem koolaid where everything is Bush's fault.

Originally Posted by NJblue

No, you didn't read my post. I assigned no blame to Clinton about the bubble that occurred under his administration. My only point was that bubbles are inherently unstable. When the bubble from the Clinton years collapsed, the Bush response of lowering taxes did work in terms of stimulating the economy and hence created/restored millions of jobs lost when the dotcom bubble collapsed. Now we have the collapse of the housing bubble and the resulting loss of jobs. To try to blame this on the Bush tax cuts is just plain silly - in fact one could say it is the result of drinking the Dem koolaid where everything is Bush's fault.

Sorry you are right I didn't read your post correctly. I do believe that the Republican congress did betray their fiscal conservative roots and spent like drunken sailors. Bush never vetoed a spending bill until the Dems got control. The tax cuts, out of control spending and the cost of the Iraq war have led us to the cliff. I am more of a moderate Democrat who believes in a balanced budget. Clinton did that...so I favor paygo. If you want anything new something has to go. I have repeatly said Obama is not my guy..I do not sip his koolaid....but I can in no way vote for McCain.

From cologal:
I do believe that the Republican congress did betray their fiscal conservative roots and spent like drunken sailors.

End quote

I take exception to this slander of Sailors. We spend the same sober....I think

Originally Posted by rjrex

From cologal:
I do believe that the Republican congress did betray their fiscal conservative roots and spent like drunken sailors.

End quote

I take exception to this slander of Sailors. We spend the same sober....I think

Ok its the laugh of the day...no offense intended to any sailors.

NO country has ever TAXED itself towards wealth. Raising taxes on any income bracket is a wrong idea. Senator Obama is the only one of the two candidates that will raise anyone's taxes.

I can agree with you that government desperately needs to reduce spending and that should be the top priority of either candidate.

The economy is in this mess because government (both red and blue) is always playing with the laws of free trade. They are constantly trying to rig the system to get what they believe to be our best interest. We can decide what is in our best interest.

The job issue? Do you think that government creates jobs? A free market is what creates or looses jobs. Are auto workers losing jobs (not related to the current financial crises) because of outsourcing that the government should be protecting them from or because it is the American right to buy the best quality car at the best possible price? Our auto industry is dieing because of high costs for what they produce and lower quality engineering (as shown by Consumer Reports and other auto rating services)?

To blame Bush and through osmosis McCain and the Republicans as a whole for what is happening in our industries job loses and economy is just

Look up the series "Free To Choose" on the idea channel, watch the original 80's programing and see how choices individuals and our government make, make a mess of our economic system.

" Senator Obama is the only one of the two candidates that will raise anyone's taxes."

Thats cracks me up beyond belief. Does ANYONE actually believe either one of these guys wont raise taxes. What the heck is gonna pay for the gobs of money we are handing out b/w the bailout and the "war". Even the simplest of minds can realize that taxes ARE going to rise. They always do, the always will, and we have sealed the deal now.

Anyone can lie now about what they will or wont do, numbers wont lie.

Originally Posted by serenityseeker

" Senator Obama is the only one of the two candidates that will raise anyone's taxes."

Thats cracks me up beyond belief. Does ANYONE actually believe either one of these guys wont raise taxes. What the heck is gonna pay for the gobs of money we are handing out b/w the bailout and the "war". Even the simplest of minds can realize that taxes ARE going to rise. They always do, the always will, and we have sealed the deal now.

Anyone can lie now about what they will or wont do, numbers wont lie.

That quote was in reference to COLO's chart where only Obama's side shows a tax increase. Obama is the only one of the two that repeatedly has stated publicly, on all form of media, that he is going to raise taxes. I will agree that unless government CUTS spending it will most certainly raise taxes, whoever wins the Presidency.

I WAS simple minded to expect that unless my response is spelled specifically and with qualifiers, that Someone would answer with a sarcastic remark. "That cracks me up"