Originally Posted by cologal

I know I will be slammed for this but.....

$50,000 sounds like a lot of money but that is about the starting salary for persons with a college degree. Then you have to look at the amount of their college loans...I have a niece and nephew both MD's they make about that, interns and resident, and you wouldn't want to know the amount they owe. (they do get healthcare) Then you need to factor in where these people live...any big city has big housing and cost of living.

It is not all black and white....

Agreed there are alot of people in that situation. There is, however, alot of blue collar people who are in the $30,000-40,000 bracket who have to work alot of overtime or a second job to reach that plateau. You know...like Caterpillar where they are still looking for those jobs to come back as promised if the gigantic bill was passed by congress.

Originally Posted by cologal

I know I will be slammed for this but.....

$50,000 sounds like a lot of money but that is about the starting salary for persons with a college degree. Then you have to look at the amount of their college loans...I have a niece and nephew both MD's they make about that, interns and resident, and you wouldn't want to know the amount they owe. (they do get healthcare) Then you need to factor in where these people live...any big city has big housing and cost of living.

It is not all black and white....

Not sure why anyone would slam you....this is valid and then of course even those who count as insured but are underinsured.

My point after looking at these numbers and hearing very little if any public debate and very little if any details on what our congress is doing...WHY DO WE NEED TO SHOVE THIS DOWN OUR THROAT SO QUICKLY ?

Are we going to cover NON citizens, etc ???

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

Only a couple simple reasons...

• The cost of healthcare as a percentage of GDP is increasing as an unsustainable rate. Legislative action is needed to bring those costs under control. The free market has not accomplished that in over thirty years and there is no evidence that it can or will in the near-term future.
• Americans are not counted among the healthiest populations on the planet, not even close. That's in spite of the egregious costs we incur for such care compared to other countries.
• For a country that counts itself among the best educated and most economically advanced to have tens of millions of its people with no healthcare whatsoever is almost criminal to think of. Something needs to be done about this problem.

If you can think of other ways to solve these problems other than a comprehensive new set of laws and regulations, and probably taxes to pay for them, please share them with us.

Here is MY example increasing healthcare cost
My Healthcare costs: One person, monthly

Jan-April 2007..............monthly $573.88
May-Aug " .................." 663.23
Sept-Mar 2007-2009..................887.27
Apr increased to 1,110.00

Originally Posted by Shirleevee

Here is MY example increasing healthcare cost
My Healthcare costs: One person, monthly

Jan-April 2007..............monthly $573.88
May-Aug " .................." 663.23
Sept-Mar 2007-2009..................887.27
Apr increased to 1,110.00

Up 93% in two years! Yikes!

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/your...pinionid=20636

Yes, I am for the proposed health care plan. I am a retired RN and have seen too many people who had no or very limited coverage.

I am a breast cancer surviver. Mine was caught extremely early, and I received great care, but know of others who were not screened and treated on time do to cost and many lost their lives.

My grandson was born in France (Father working there, and family living there). He was extremely sick when he was born. It was touch and go. He received wonderful care, recovered and is now doing fantastic. French doctors were top rate.

Cousin in the UK had quadtriple bypass surgery. Great doctors, great recovery.

I believe health care is a right. We lost our health insurance before we were on Medicare. Bought an expensive private policy, but it excluded anything that had to do with cancer. Once on Medicare I was once again covered.

JUst seems like there should be a better way. Also, I don't think a profit should be made from health care.

Originally Posted by Avista

Yes, I am for the proposed health care plan. I am a retired RN and have seen too many people who had no or very limited coverage.

I am a breast cancer surviver. Mine was caught extremely early, and I received great care, but know of others who were not screened and treated on time do to cost and many lost their lives.

My grandson was born in France (Father working there, and family living there). He was extremely sick when he was born. It was touch and go. He received wonderful care, recovered and is now doing fantastic. French doctors were top rate.

Cousin in the UK had quadtriple bypass surgery. Great doctors, great recovery.

I believe health care is a right. We lost our health insurance before we were on Medicare. Bought an expensive private policy, but it excluded anything that had to do with cancer. Once on Medicare I was once again covered.

JUst seems like there should be a better way. Also, I don't think a profit should be made from health care.

I know very few who are AGAINST any health care changes !!!

My problem is the RUSH to get there. This is a big deal and a big committment !!

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

Only a couple simple reasons...

• The cost of healthcare as a percentage of GDP is increasing as an unsustainable rate. Legislative action is needed to bring those costs under control. The free market has not accomplished that in over thirty years and there is no evidence that it can or will in the near-term future.
• Americans are not counted among the healthiest populations on the planet, not even close. That's in spite of the egregious costs we incur for such care compared to other countries.
• For a country that counts itself among the best educated and most economically advanced to have tens of millions of its people with no healthcare whatsoever is almost criminal to think of. Something needs to be done about this problem.

If you can think of other ways to solve these problems other than a comprehensive new set of laws and regulations, and probably taxes to pay for them, please share them with us.

Oh by the way have a read
http://energycommerce.house.gov/Pres...ssiondraft.pdf Draft of the health care house version

Originally Posted by Bucco

Thank you for the link....it helps....a few things jumped out at me, and this is not being unsympathetic at all...

43.1 % of the uninsured are NOT american citizens

21 % of the uninsured make OVER 50,000 per year (almost 8 % over 75,000)

88% of the uninsured were not born in the US !

Most of the children are eligible for Medicaid but the government has done a bad job in getting the info out.

About 85% of all americans are insured ! Used the Pop of 305 million and the sites estimate of almost 45 million uninsured.

Just these three things tell me that this needs some discussion ! Assuming I read the site correctly and did my math correctly.

This is not being unsympathetic...I am FOR health care, but now I am sure we are moving much too fast on this huge amount of money !

PS...Please check my math everybody !!

If you have ever had to go to the emergency room at TV hospital.... you will see why we need something better than we have. It is full of young people with US as thier Primary Care Provider $$$$

Originally Posted by GrayGoose

If you have ever had to go to the emergency room at TV hospital.... you will see why we need something better than we have. It is full of young people with US as thier Primary Care Provider $$$$

Have not seen ONE person on here or otherwise not support health care reform.....it is the speed and lack of debate and details that are scary !

Selling reform is not a problem !!!1

As a society, we can have whatever we altogether can afford. The problem is, we can't have everything, as no society can afford that.

When the supposed way to afford something is to selectively tax any portion of the population, the taxed folk find ways to avoid what they think is a bigoted tax, and the burden shifts further down the pyramid. After a while, we're all taxed beyond belief.

So, here we sit, in a society already $10+Trillion in debt and growing, with rising unemployment (shrinking the taxpayer pool). How do we respond? We charge into another financial abyss with no real idea what it will cost and requiring a more bloated government (which we must pay for in addition) to "manage." Does this make any sense?

So, before this money-monster rips us up, how about a dollar-for-dollar reduction elsewhere in government? What in God's name makes us think we can afford everything when the only way we've been getting more is just acquiring another government credit card, running it to the limit, and then paying its bill with one more new credit card.

This is insanity, and I'm not sure that condition is covered by the proposed health care bill....

I turned my back on Obama's attempt to reform our health care problem when he took such a pig-headed arrogant position on including tort reform as part of the process. I hope his initiative falls flat on it's face. He needs a wake up call anyway.

Originally Posted by rshoffer

I turned my back on Obama's attempt to reform our health care problem when he took such a pig-headed arrogant position on including tort reform as part of the process. I hope his initiative falls flat on it's face. He needs a wake up call anyway.

Me too.

Originally Posted by SteveZ

As a society, we can have whatever we altogether can afford. The problem is, we can't have everything, as no society can afford that....This is insanity....

Believe it or not, I'm pretty much with you on this, Steve.

You're right. We can have whatever we can afford. It's a matter of establishing a collective will for what the most important things are that we desire and are willing to pay for. The problem is that the electorate has been inattentive and our elected representatives have made no effort whatsoever to establish any priorities for over a decade. They have been on a wild-eyed spending spree and continue to do so. They are continuing to spend on whatever they and the special interests they represent desire, paying for it with borrowed money and by doing so obligating future generations of Americans to pay for their self-serving largesse. So far, those that have been agreeable to lend the U.S. as much as it wants to borrow have continued to do so. That will not continue.

We should be forewarned that this situation is just as ridiculous and unsustainable as the value of houses increasing 10% a year and banks being willing to lend money to people who clearly can't repy the loans. We know what the outcome of that period of lunacy has been. As we told ourselves after the financial crisis became evident, common sense should have told uas this couldn't continue. The near future holds a similar and dramatic outcome in my opinion. Common sense should tell us that.

If you are referring to the need for healthcare reform as insanity, I disagree. For the same reasons I noted in an earlier response in this thread, I support such reform and the costs that accrue to it. What is necessary is a long hard look at the other stuff that our government spends money on. A long hard look at expenditures that should be eliminated in order to afford things that are truly important to our society.

There's no sense confusing this thread with another recitation of spending reductions that are possible. But I might start with stopping wars that we can't afford, military expenditures that we don't need, and a deep across-the-board cut in government spending on everything else. Those would be "way of life changing" cost reductions. We'll either do it ourselves or those that until now have loaned us money will do it for us.

As long as I still have choice and it does not cost me more than I am paying now.