is one we are "Free to Choose" One where we are free to educate ourselves (or not) free to live where we want, to work , to play. We are free to achieve our greatest goals or to wallow in our ignorance or self pity. We are free to choose what health care package we want or can afford. We are free, not equal. Our freedom is in opportunity, not entitlement. To assume that the world should be fair to all is wrong at face value.

There will always be some that will work for a better education, or work harder than the rest, have inventiveness greater than others, better eye sight, hearing or athletic abilities. Should government level the playing field so that some who have lack of effort in education, or are lazy or don't have sale-able talents, or criminal minds be afforded equality to YOU?

YES, we have an obligation as a society to help the physically handicapped, the mentally handicapped or any number people of REAL disabilities. But to provide for the unwilling to take care of themselves is not the governments responsibility. Some are where they are because they chose to be there, lacked effort to do better or feel entitled to a free ride in life.

One gets out of life in portion of what one puts in. Society willl take of those truly in need.

Originally Posted by dklassen

What????

I think that's total bull pucky. It's free enterprise that's given the the greatest health care not to mention health care technology in the world.

It's government meddling, regulation, interference, corruption and plain incompetence that's mostly responsible, not the free market. That's just ridicules, and to suggest that government is the only one that has a chance to fix it is even more absurd.

Health care in America isn't broken. There's an insurance problem among other things that needs to be addressed. The government fix it? What a joke!!

God almighty.

Perfectly stated. Our health care is the best. We have the best trained providers--physicians, nurses, P.A.'s, techs etc and the most amazing medical technology anyone could imagine. The current "delivery" and payment methodology is a mess. Here is just one tiny examole. When we opened our mail today there was a letter from my wife's primary care provider who is new to the area. It was a bill for over 600 dollars. There was a hand written note attached. "When we provided these services to you in June (this year)we were not yet paneled as providere for BC/BS--- we thought we were" Thus, what we thought was covered wasn't. What a mess.

Originally Posted by gnu

is one we are "Free to Choose" One where we are free to educate ourselves (or not) free to live where we want, to work , to play. We are free to achieve our greatest goals or to wallow in our ignorance or self pity. We are free to choose what health care package we want or can afford. We are free, not equal. Our freedom is in opportunity, not entitlement. To assume that the world should be fair to all is wrong at face value.

There will always be some that will work for a better education, or work harder than the rest, have inventiveness greater than others, better eye sight, hearing or athletic abilities. Should government level the playing field so that some who have lack of effort in education, or are lazy or don't have sale-able talents, or criminal minds be afforded equality to YOU?

YES, we have an obligation as a society to help the physically handicapped, the mentally handicapped or any number people of REAL disabilities. But to provide for the unwilling to take care of themselves is not the governments responsibility. Some are where they are because they chose to be there, lacked effort to do better or feel entitled to a free ride in life.

One gets out of life in portion of what one puts in. Society willl take of those truly in need.

Good post, Buddy. Also, I'm tired of hearing the same erroneous figures being bandied about. If you take the illegals and the people who can afford health insurance but opt not to, the figures are probably closer to 10-20 million uninsured. The government is broke and they want to add insult to injury. That is like boarding the Titanic after it hits the iceberg.

Originally Posted by dklassen

What????

I think that's total bull pucky. It's free enterprise that's given the the greatest health care not to mention health care technology in the world.

It's government meddling, regulation, interference, corruption and plain incompetence that's mostly responsible, not the free market. That's just ridicules, and to suggest that government is the only one that has a chance to fix it is even more absurd.

Health care in America isn't broken. There's an insurance problem among other things that needs to be addressed. The government fix it? What a joke!!

God almighty.

I agree. But I still believe that nothing is going to change without Tort reform. One of the biggest$$$ lobbying is by the Lawyers. Doctors will keep ordering unnecessary tests as long as they think that they might get sued. I won't bore you with details but I can personally state that I have been subjected to superfluous tests ordered by too careful doctors. Nothing is left to chance and decisions are based on law not the patients well being.

Originally Posted by Keedy

I agree. But I still believe that nothing is going to change without Tort reform. One of the biggest$$$ lobbying is by the Lawyers. Doctors will keep ordering unnecessary tests as long as they think that they might get sued. I won't bore you with details but I can personally state that I have been subjected to superfluous tests ordered by too careful doctors. Nothing is left to chance and decisions are based on law not the patients well being.

All the tort reform in the world won't change "defensive medicine," unless there is blanket immunity from seeking damages for malpractice. Period!

Medical malpractice costs are less than 2% of overall health care costs. To remove that 2% will take a blanket immunity. Maybe that will reduce "defensive medicine" actions, and maybe it won't. But if all the care provider has at risk is his/her license, and that only if a medical review board says they were so negligent and incompetent the board recommends the state revoke the license, what good is that to you? The care provider may lose their license (and that's highly doubtful), but you have still been harmed with no recourse. Is that what folk want?

Rather than keep this thread going--it is getting heated at times--I started another one with some facts regarding our healthcare system. I gathered sme facts from studies done by unassailable sources. I'd recommend that folks consider the research that I've done, and then do more on their own, before reaching personal conclusions on whether the reforms being considered in Congress are right, wrong, necessary or unnecessary, too expensive or not. This question is a pretty important one for our country.

Originally Posted by dklassen

What????

I think that's total bull pucky. It's free enterprise that's given the the greatest health care not to mention health care technology in the world.

It's government meddling, regulation, interference, corruption and plain incompetence that's mostly responsible, not the free market. That's just ridicules, and to suggest that government is the only one that has a chance to fix it is even more absurd.

Health care in America isn't broken. There's an insurance problem among other things that needs to be addressed. The government fix it? What a joke!!

God almighty.

We do NOT have the greatest healthcare system....not even close. We do have some of the best healthcare technology.

In the beginning we had non-profit hospitals and now we have for profit healthcare systems. That is part of the problem. Another part of the problem is the insurance companies which are again....for profit.

While I believe in capitalism it is NOT my God. The free market system does have its faults...as we all saw recently.

This system works best when things work for everyone...not just for business but for the workers also. The system is out of balance the stock market is going up and profits are up. The problem is people are still losing their jobs and wages are falling. That cannot be denied.

Many of the bankruptcies in the US are caused by lack of healthcare and the under insured. Something has to be done.

Originally Posted by SteveZ

All the tort reform in the world won't change "defensive medicine," unless there is blanket immunity from seeking damages for malpractice. Period!

Medical malpractice costs are less than 2% of overall health care costs. To remove that 2% will take a blanket immunity. Maybe that will reduce "defensive medicine" actions, and maybe it won't. But if all the care provider has at risk is his/her license, and that only if a medical review board says they were so negligent and incompetent the board recommends the state revoke the license, what good is that to you? The care provider may lose their license (and that's highly doubtful), but you have still been harmed with no recourse. Is that what folk want?

Last weekend my wife and I were visited by a friend and his wife. He was at a medical mtg in Orlando. He and I went to college AND medical school together. Although we were good friends, I have not seen him OR spoken with hime since the day we walked off the stage at graduation from med school with our diplomas. He and his wife pulled up in front of our home last Sat afternoon and when he went to get out of the car his wife went to the trunk and got his wheelchair.... I couldn't believe my eyes. He had told me he was a very successful invasive cardiologist in Louisiana but had some physical problems. Well, I has not seen Dave since May of 1976 and was shocked to see him in a wheel chair. It turns out he had severe cervical disc disease from decades of wearing a heavy lead apron around his neck while doing heart caths. In 1995 he finally needed surgery. Unfortunately, during the early phase of the operation a very necessary piece of equipment malfunctioned.... the back-up piece was also broken so the surgeon proceeded on doing something that should not have been done and my friend ultimately was left with a spastic hemiparesis from the waist down. He is still a very successful and active cardiologist. He had endured 2 more operations but is now in a wheelchair. Obviously he had a number of prominent attorneys advocating for him but, according to Dave, in the state of Louisiana there are "malpractice caps". He never sued.
I have a widened perspective of the scope of what malpractice reform would involve.