Originally Posted by RichieLion

Bucco, you understood the point that this guy is making? I know it a mean spirited post, but I don't quite get the point of his prejudice in this one, I have to admit. Exactly what he is referring to is escaping me.

It obvious that it reeks with some hatred, but I can't get a real handle on the correlation of his first statement and his second.

Sorry if I am talking over anyones head. I am just trying to point out that Superstitions, Quackery, Non-acceptance of Differences of others is a common GOP trait and is not a good thing. If I can help further, please feel free to PM me for one on one counseling.

Originally Posted by waynet

I know what he will do. He will "find"WMD's lie to congress and the American people and get us into another unfunded war so we can go deeper in debt.

Sounds familiar......

Originally Posted by skyguy79

Let's see!

The beliefs/morality you speak of orginated in 1973 with the landmark decision in Roe vs. Wade.
The beliefs/morality Catholics have are centuries old.

You say the church is forcing their morality on everybody.
The church is only exercising their freedom of religion rights.

You imply the church prevents you and others from exercising your rights.
The church cannot prevent you or anybody from excersing your rights... elsewhere.

Whose trying to force their beliefs on others?
It sure ain't the church, by a long shot. That's for sure!

This is so simple. If you don't believe in abortion, then don't have one.
You have no right to tell others they can not.

If you don't believe in birth control....don't use it.
Don't tell others they can no.

The corollary to this is...are you going to pony up the funds to support these children that families do not have the resources to raise? You kind of don't like any social programs far as I can tell. You explain to me how we are going to care for these children...or does your support end when they are born?

So very simple...really, it is.

Originally Posted by The Villager II

Sorry if I am talking over anyones head. I am just trying to point out that Superstitions, Quackery, Non-acceptance of Differences of others is a common GOP trait and is not a good thing. If I can help further, please feel free to PM me for one on one counseling.

Please validate your charge and allow any who wish to match anything you say with Dem antics !!!

All of this party generalization is just plain a waste of time....it is nothing but political slander of the worst kind

Originally Posted by The Villager II

Sorry if I am talking over anyones head. I am just trying to point out that Superstitions, Quackery, Non-acceptance of Differences of others is a common GOP trait and is not a good thing. If I can help further, please feel free to PM me for one on one counseling.

I only ask questions from people I can respect the answer of. I do not ask questions of a malicious muckraker.

Originally Posted by ladydoc

This is so simple. If you don't believe in abortion, then don't have one.

It's my duty to object to the murder of children, and to try to educate those who don't see that child's humanity. I don't devalue your life, and I certainly won't devalue the life of the child you would so carelessly and callously discard.

Richie: I hope we can keep this civil. But let me outline where I think we agree and disagree a little.

You believe in "it's a child at conception"? Honest question - but that's what I'm led to understand based on your posts. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

The equivalent of my belief is - at that moment - it's a blueprint. It's a single-cell organism that has the possibility to become a child - and there are a lot of things working against it before you get to things like abortions and IUDs.

By the same token, the idea of walking into some clinic when you're practically at term for an abortion (which pretty much doesn't happen because every state has restrictions on late-term abortions - which Roe v. Wade allows) is repugnant to me.

I've had to clean up the results of a miscarriage. And that's as graphic as I hope to get on this subject. I'd be lying if I said that didn't influence my opinions.

The overwhelming percentage of abortions are done in the first trimester - usually in the 2nd month. Pro-lifers will try to point out there there could be a beating heart later in that trimester. Pro-choicers will point out that it's a single-chamber heart (less developed than a frog's) and that, on sight, you wouldn't be able to visually tell the difference between a human and chicken embryo. ...and so begins the politicizing, the shouting, screaming, protesting, etc, etc.

I see reasons why couples (or single women for that matter) could be forced by situation into later term abortions. Anencephaly, Tay-Sachs - things like that. At that point, I have a disconnect with more social conservatives who would not only ban such abortions but also don't want to pay for the extraordinary health care costs that SOMEONE will have to pay if these go to term. I don't mean to be snarky, but not everyone has a Senator's health care plan.

I won't argue that some are careless and "callously" discard what they're carrying, whether you consider it a child or even only potential. But, in my experience, it's not always like that. In fact, in my experience, it's a VERY serious decision. And, yes, I've been confronted with it personally. When you have to make that decision. WHaen you're barely scraping by and you just discovered that the treatments you just had that ran all kinds of radiation through you were done when you didn't know that you were just a couple days pregnant.. When the doctor tells you what the odds are. Well, let's say that you have some SERIOUS thinking to do.

And, staying on that personal note, we DID have another child afterwards when things were a LOT more stable. Our 2nd daughter was planned, wanted, loved and is now in college working her tail off to pay tuition.

I suppose what I'm trying to get across is that it's more than the slogans thrown around on both sides. ABortion isn't the disease - it's the symptom. You get a better way of preventing unwanted pregnancies and you'll "cure" abortion. I will agree with you in one area where I *think* we agree. Every child should be wanted and loved.

How can you legitimately take traits that apply to any population at large and make it specific to any particular group merely to facilitate your position?

("I am just trying to point out that Superstitions, Quackery, Non-acceptance of Differences of others is a common GOP trait and is not a good thing.")

These are traits of humans. It is good there are differences. Also infers Dems specifically as well as any group other than GOP do not have these traits which is blatantly obviously incorrect!




btk

Originally Posted by djplong

Richie: I hope we can keep this civil. But let me outline where I think we agree and disagree a little.

You believe in "it's a child at conception"? Honest question - but that's what I'm led to understand based on your posts. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

The equivalent of my belief is - at that moment - it's a blueprint. It's a single-cell organism that has the possibility to become a child - and there are a lot of things working against it before you get to things like abortions and IUDs.

By the same token, the idea of walking into some clinic when you're practically at term for an abortion (which pretty much doesn't happen because every state has restrictions on late-term abortions - which Roe v. Wade allows) is repugnant to me.

I've had to clean up the results of a miscarriage. And that's as graphic as I hope to get on this subject. I'd be lying if I said that didn't influence my opinions.

The overwhelming percentage of abortions are done in the first trimester - usually in the 2nd month. Pro-lifers will try to point out there there could be a beating heart later in that trimester. Pro-choicers will point out that it's a single-chamber heart (less developed than a frog's) and that, on sight, you wouldn't be able to visually tell the difference between a human and chicken embryo. ...and so begins the politicizing, the shouting, screaming, protesting, etc, etc.

I see reasons why couples (or single women for that matter) could be forced by situation into later term abortions. Anencephaly, Tay-Sachs - things like that. At that point, I have a disconnect with more social conservatives who would not only ban such abortions but also don't want to pay for the extraordinary health care costs that SOMEONE will have to pay if these go to term. I don't mean to be snarky, but not everyone has a Senator's health care plan.

I won't argue that some are careless and "callously" discard what they're carrying, whether you consider it a child or even only potential. But, in my experience, it's not always like that. In fact, in my experience, it's a VERY serious decision. And, yes, I've been confronted with it personally. When you have to make that decision. WHaen you're barely scraping by and you just discovered that the treatments you just had that ran all kinds of radiation through you were done when you didn't know that you were just a couple days pregnant.. When the doctor tells you what the odds are. Well, let's say that you have some SERIOUS thinking to do.

And, staying on that personal note, we DID have another child afterwards when things were a LOT more stable. Our 2nd daughter was planned, wanted, loved and is now in college working her tail off to pay tuition.

I suppose what I'm trying to get across is that it's more than the slogans thrown around on both sides. ABortion isn't the disease - it's the symptom. You get a better way of preventing unwanted pregnancies and you'll "cure" abortion. I will agree with you in one area where I *think* we agree. Every child should be wanted and loved.

DJ, you throw around a lot of words and scenarios but it's not a complicated thing. You talked about some things here that I will just say it's a matter of the"intent". What is the intent of the person? You can figure out yourself from your personal experiences and your suppositions above what the intent was. Was it an accidental or unknowable situation that results in the death of the innocent life, or was it the reasoned destruction of it?

You say "every child should be wanted and loved".

That statement is something every pro-life advocate has been preaching from the beginning. I just wish you meant it in it's truest sense.

Originally Posted by billethkid

How can you legitimately take traits that apply to any population at large and make it specific to any particular group merely to facilitate your position?

("I am just trying to point out that Superstitions, Quackery, Non-acceptance of Differences of others is a common GOP trait and is not a good thing.")

These are traits of humans. It is good there are differences. Also infers Dems specifically as well as any group other than GOP do not have these traits which is blatantly obviously incorrect!




btk

I am not sure I am correct, I come to this maybe because I am a conservative, Christian, Republican and therefore I hear things that are a little out there from my like personal friends. Its like racial jokes, I hear them all the time form my conservative friends, but I have noticed over the years, I rarely hear off color jokes, or condemnation of the poor from liberals. Maybe because they know me and will not open up to a conservative or maybe because they are in fact more in tune to kind thinking over logic. I don't know.

Originally Posted by The Villager II

I am not sure I am correct, I come to this maybe because I am a conservative, Christian, Republican and therefore I hear things that are a little out there from my like personal friends. Its like racial jokes, I hear them all the time form my conservative friends, but I have noticed over the years, I rarely hear off color jokes, or condemnation of the poor from liberals. Maybe because they know me and will not open up to a conservative or maybe because they are in fact more in tune to kind thinking over logic. I don't know.

I've got to stop reading your posts while I have coffee in my mouth.

Originally Posted by RichieLion

I've got to stop reading your posts while I have coffee in my mouth.

Hee Hee Hee

Originally Posted by The Villager II

I am not sure I am correct, I come to this maybe because I am a conservative, Christian, Republican and therefore I hear things that are a little out there from my like personal friends. Its like racial jokes, I hear them all the time form my conservative friends, but I have noticed over the years, I rarely hear off color jokes, or condemnation of the poor from liberals. Maybe because they know me and will not open up to a conservative or maybe because they are in fact more in tune to kind thinking over logic. I don't know.

This post has really lost touch with reality....will be amazing if anyone even takes time to read your posts from now on, coffee or not...you have totally lost touch with reality !

Originally Posted by Bucco

This post has really lost touch with reality....will be amazing if anyone even takes time to read your posts from now on, coffee or not...you have totally lost touch with reality !

You've hit that nail squarely. That's why I made my "spit-take" comment.

Originally Posted by DaleMN

Ultra-conservative & ultra-sensitive seem to go hand in hand.

Amen---what is good for the goose is good for the gander. They can shovel it out but heaven help you if you disagree!!!