Originally Posted by ijusluvit

It is in the normal litany of criticism of Obama by those whose current reputations and popularity, as per above, to perpetuate the false belief that the President is responsible for initiating the expenditure of far too many our our precious tax dollars. Phrased differently, a group of posters here have continued to harp on the "promises" made by Obama to affect this are that economic change. It does warrant a little sarcasm when the professional right-wingers and their amateur disciples here keep brushing Civics 101 aside.

But may i remind you of your breakthrough. In a recent post, you have finally stated that you recognize the constitutional position of the President in our government and hinted you might refrain from more hand-wringng over "broken promises". In my view, that is a new expression of open-mindedness and a sign that you are separating yourself from those who still say "damn reality, full criticism (and hatred) ahead!".

A few comments if I may....

First of all , I always recognized the limitations of the President and if you really think I am just plain stupid, then so be it. I have never come on here and listed the promises made and those broken...NOT ONCE...NEVER EVER an I challenge you to find anything much more than my problem with the LYING, and it was not forgotten promises, with the health care bill and his HYPOCRISY in the PERSONAL attacks on previous administration and then his embracing but still attacking. If you want I can probably find a list of broken promises somewhere as they abound on the internet but that is not my problem with this president and your ability to simply box me all up and KNOW is amazing because I have since before he was nominated made it clear what I oppose and in discussing his past three years I have talked about HIS LYING and his HYPOCRISY. I suppose I should be offended that you would think it was a breakthrough on my part as to his limitations, but I just expect this kind of stuff now.

Lets just understand something...I really resent being labeled as you seem to want to do with me. I said on here in 2007 or maybe early 2008 that he was a hypocrite and a liar and a manipulater. I stand by that.

And if you do not think he has promulgated financial change, then just hang on. We are in the throes of our country simply forgetting about and dismantling states rights and rulings by proclamation. I never said he spent this or that...I still say and nobody...NOT ONE PERSON..has challenged me that we cannot pay for the new health care law.....the bill on that of course is not due until in the future and in the meantime we simply HOPE AND PRAY that all the assumption in there actually take place. This at a time as we near financial ruin in this country.

You criticize the "right wingers" as you call them.....I enjoy actually coming on here and reading what the "left wingers" (I will use labels as you seem comfortable with them) and just laughing. They do not read anything...they simply attack. Today, a Fortune mag article posted but nobody noticed that it was a left wing writer by his admission, not my label. If I post something on here about any budget issues it is meant with nothing but Obama campaign material. No,you are certainly either eliminating certain posters on here from your "survey" or you are just flat out wrong. Are there those who do that....ABSOLUTELY....but your comment is just out of line.

I do just fine with Civic101....I also do well and notice and research before I post and if I am wrong, I WILL APOLOGIZE AND SAY IT. I have done it many...well more than I would like.....so please give me a bit of credit for knowing how the government works......I read all about our President in his younger years was he was 'training" like Romney was "training".....I read his autobiography and called him a liar on this board before the press did. I told VK as a matter of fact that there were descrepencies in 2008. I read about his time in Chicago..his quotes...etc...does not matter.

Just allow me to talk about ISSUES an stop labeling me...I have agreed and said so on here with a lot he has done, but nobody ever sees that I suppose.

Now, you tell me where I ever "perpetuate the false belief that the President is responsible for initiating the expenditure of far too many our our precious tax dollars."

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

Bucco, it's really hard to debate situations as you describe with GE. Like Mitt Romney, GE has done nothing illegal in running their businesses. Their job is to make money for their shareholders. They practice capitalism as best they know how. They follow the laws as consistently as their lawyers and accountants tell them to. They make fine products and are admired around the world.

But how can anyone debate all those "good" things, the successful practice of capitalism, when someone comes back and criticizes the company because they do too much business outside the U.S., employ too many people in other countries? The difficulty in participating in such a debate is even harder when the person taking the other side will later embrace and endorse the capitalistic, free market system.

Did you ever consider that if GE could produce the goods and services they sell cheaper and with comparable quality here in the U.S., that they would? Did you ever think that GE is putting their manufacturing plants or service providers closer to the customers they serve, a whole lot of which are outside the U.S. these days? Did you realize that 60% of GE's sales comes from outside the U.S.? That they make more profit outside the U.S. than they do here in our country?

So explain to me again why the CEO of GE should be castigated for doing the outstanding free market capitalistic job he is apparently doing? And tell me again why the hated president of the U.S. should be criticized for his friendship with that executive, or even seeking his wise business counsel in his administration?

The problem isn't with GE or the president. The problem is that the U.S. is losing it's competitiveness and the political will and intelligence to make legislative decisions that would enhance the return of our ability to compete in world markets. That last part of it can be laid on the doorstep of President Obama--and several other presidents who preceeded him. The erosion of our ability to compete didn't happen overnight.

You are correct in criticizing Obama for campaigning against Mitt Romney using the "outsourcing" argument. That demonstrates that he too doesn't understand how free market capitalism works. Or if he does, he believes that the electorate really doesn't understand and that such an argument will gain him votes, or cost Romney votes. It's really hard, I think, to campaign using facts to an electorate is too lazy, stupid or unwilling to understand.

But you kinda can't have it both ways. Either you're a free market capitalist or you're not. GE practices free market capitalism...and they do it very well! I'm sure the GE shareholders, myself included, are very happy with him.

I never criticized GE...I simply mentioned the continuing hypocrisy...and that was it. I simply agreed with Richie on that fact and asked why you singled out Fox, etc in your post.

Thats it...I am a free market guy

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

Bucco, it's really hard to debate situations as you describe with GE. Like Mitt Romney, GE has done nothing illegal in running their businesses. Their job is to make money for their shareholders. They practice capitalism as best they know how. They follow the laws as consistently as their lawyers and accountants tell them to. They make fine products and are admired around the world.

But how can anyone debate all those "good" things, the successful practice of capitalism, when someone comes back and criticizes the company because they do too much business outside the U.S., employ too many people in other countries? The difficulty in participating in such a debate is even harder when the person taking the other side will later embrace and endorse the capitalistic, free market system.

Did you ever consider that if GE could produce the goods and services they sell cheaper and with comparable quality here in the U.S., that they would? Did you ever think that GE is putting their manufacturing plants or service providers closer to the customers they serve, a whole lot of which are outside the U.S. these days? Did you realize that 60% of GE's sales comes from outside the U.S.? That they make more profit outside the U.S. than they do here in our country?

So explain to me again why the CEO of GE should be castigated for doing the outstanding free market capitalistic job he is apparently doing? And tell me again why the hated president of the U.S. should be criticized for his friendship with that executive, or even seeking his wise business counsel in his administration?

The problem isn't with GE or the president. The problem is that the U.S. is losing it's competitiveness and the political will and intelligence to make legislative decisions that would enhance the return of our ability to compete in world markets. That last part of it can be laid on the doorstep of President Obama--and several other presidents who preceeded him. The erosion of our ability to compete didn't happen overnight.

You are correct in criticizing Obama for campaigning against Mitt Romney using the "outsourcing" argument. That demonstrates that he too doesn't understand how free market capitalism works. Or if he does, he believes that the electorate really doesn't understand and that such an argument will gain him votes, or cost Romney votes. It's really hard, I think, to campaign using facts to an electorate is too lazy, stupid or unwilling to understand.

But you kinda can't have it both ways. Either you're a free market capitalist or you're not. GE practices free market capitalism...and they do it very well! I'm sure the GE shareholders, myself included, are very happy with him.

VK, I am not nearly as engaged in these issues as you or Bucco. I read, watch, and listen a fair amount and peruse the forum from time to time, but I have no inclination to butt and rebut at length like you are willing to do. What I do want to say is thank you for your intelligent posting. It is amazing what someone who looks at things without a right or left wing perspective is able to see and articulate that those with those biases simply cannot. Thanks for fighting the good fight, though you probably waste your time with most.

Verbose.

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

Richie, did I "defend Obama"? What I asked was for examples of how Obama gave "billions of taxpayer dollars to GE".

If there are real examples of that, I'd be every bit as incensed as you are. But again, you're unable to back up your sometimes outrageous allegations.

If you find some examples let me know, so I might join you in outrage against the administration.

When and wherever someone criticizes Obama, you’re sure to jump right in and quibble with what is written. Someone criticizes Romney and you very understanding of that person. I’m not the only one noticing this.

OK……….I did some “googling” for you and here’s some links for you to read on Obama’s love affair with GE and Jeffery Immelt, and the money it costs us to facilitate this relationship. I can help show you how to utilize the power of search engines if you’d like.

If you need assistance in gleaning the pertinent info from them, let me know.

G.E.'s Corporate Strategy; don't pay any tax - Fargo American Government | Examiner.com

The Unholy Marriage Of GE And President Obama At The Altar Of Industrial Policy - Forbes

DOE Gives Taxpayer Money to GE - By Greg Pollowitz - Planet Gore - National Review Online

“Venture Socialism:” Obama Administration Giving GE Taxpayer-backed Subsidies on Foreign Exports « Scotty Starnes's Blog

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/bu...pagewanted=all

Cash Hoard Grows by $187 Billion in Untaxed Overseas Profits - Bloomberg

The number is now up to 15 prominent republicans who are calling for Mitt Romney to release his tax returns, including Congressman Ron Paul, George Will, and Bill Christol.


15 Prominent Republicans Who Want Romney To Release More Tax Returns Right Now | ThinkProgress


As if that isn't bad enough, today Senator John McCain said that he picked Sarah Palin over Mitt Romney for VP, not because of Romney's taxes, but because Palin was a better candidate. Is McCain working for President Obama? Could things get any worse for Romney?

Add two more to that list. The National Review and Governor Rick Perry say Mitt Romney should release his tax returns.


http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/20...ax-returns.php


http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/20...-romney-vp.php

Originally Posted by janmcn

The number is now up to 15 prominent republicans who are calling for Mitt Romney to release his tax returns, including Congressman Ron Paul, George Will, and Bill Christol.


15 Prominent Republicans Who Want Romney To Release More Tax Returns Right Now | ThinkProgress


As if that isn't bad enough, today Senator John McCain said that he picked Sarah Palin over Mitt Romney for VP, not because of Romney's taxes, but because Palin was a better candidate. Is McCain working for President Obama? Could things get any worse for Romney?

Sarah Palin was a better choice when John McCain made it back in 2008. She was a lot more popular with much of the Republican grass roots than I would expect Mitt Romney will ever be. I almost went to see her when she was in the Villages speaking around 2008 about her campaign. I stood in the line to get a ticket to see her but changed my mind not being all that fond of crowds.

It will be interesting to see whom Mitt Romney picks for VP and whether or not Romney releases his tax records.

If you know what leveraged buyout companies do I am not all that surprised that Mitt Romney wants to distance himself from some of the deals that Bain made after Romney left to run the Salt Lake City Olympics. I would think that outsourcing of jobs would be a tactic used heavily with respect to trying to make a company more profitable. Lower wages, benefits and the like overseas.

Top Romney spokesperson urged Senator John Kerry to release more tax returns in 2004, even though Kerry had already released 20 years worth of tax returns.


Top Romney Spokesperson Urged Kerry's Presidential Campaign To Release More Tax Returns In 2004 | ThinkProgress

Who gives a rats a-- about Bain capital

I just find it hard to believe that a poster writes about his constant belief that President Obama has lied about things in his background - all unproven - when GEORGE W. BUSH lied to the American people about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. They never were there. He just wanted a war in Iraq to show his daddy he could win. His lies cost trillions of US dollars as well as over 4,400 American lives and tens of thousands of Americans wounded and scarred physically and mentality.

Get real with your posts and think about the American lives and futures lost by GEORGE W. BUSH.

Originally Posted by DDoug

Who gives a rats a-- about Bain capital

Maybe people who want an HONEST man in the White House. An HONEST man like President Obama and NOT one of dubious qualities like Mitt Romney?

Well then I guess they are all liars including the beloved obama

Some of these posts make me wonder if some posters realize that vodka martinis do not mix well with Prozac - or just if their medications need a major adjustment.

Originally Posted by buggyone

I just find it hard to believe that a poster writes about his constant belief that President Obama has lied about things in his background - all unproven - when GEORGE W. BUSH lied to the American people about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. They never were there. He just wanted a war in Iraq to show his daddy he could win. His lies cost trillions of US dollars as well as over 4,400 American lives and tens of thousands of Americans wounded and scarred physically and mentality.

Get real with your posts and think about the American lives and futures lost by GEORGE W. BUSH.

I do not know to whom this post is aimed,but will assume it is me for purpose of responding.

First, your very arrogant assumption is noted. You have no idea of my opinion on your message on Bush, and that is history and it is somewhat stunning that someone would bring something like that up in 2012 except in some kind of rage or something,

If you wish I will be glad to start a thread about all the lies that this President has told. Many of them have been chronicled as to his lying in his own autobiography....there were many of them regarding health care. I do not count as lies promises made that could not be kept, but if you wish tomorrow perhaps as I will be out of town most of the day, I will be glad to do that for you.

Perhaps in the meantime you could explain this rather bizarre post of yours talking about Bush. Earlier you called Romney dishonest with absolutely no back up at all. I asked for it but I know I will not get it. While we all believe in our own political stances, it seems that yours is hell bent on ruining everyone they can at every step in the name of WHAT ?

I do not blindly defend Romney until the President of the United States through a campaign spokesman says he is either a liar or a felon....see that just makes no sense and now you continue the assault.

Originally Posted by buggyone

Some of these posts make me wonder if some posters realize that vodka martinis do not mix well with Prozac - or just if their medications need a major adjustment.

Again, if you intend to throw darts at everyone, please be specific as to whom your barbs and sarcasm are aimed. Or is it that noone on here is at your level ?