Excellent post SteveZ!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by chelsea24

I never even felt it when I traveled through France, when many Americans were saying the French are just rude to Americans, I never saw it that way.

Just a quick comment. It's not just the Americans who have found the French to be less than hospitable. All of Europe dislikes the French, especially Parisians. I loved my time in Alsace Lorraine and found the people very friendly. I'd like to visit the Loire Valley and maybe take a river cruise, but I'll pass on Paris, even though that means missing the Louvre. Ask the average Brit, German, or Swede what they think of the French. I don't know why, but the animosity is almost palpable and almost universal. Of course, ask the Brit about the Germans or the Germans about the Slavs or Italians or the Poles about the Germans or the Russians or any of them about the Turks.

The Merry Minuet by Sheldon Harnick (as bit dated, but still applicable)

They're rioting in Africa
They're starving in Spain
There's hurricanes in Florida
And Texas needs rain
the Whole world is festering with unhappy souls
The French hate the Germans, the Germans hate the Poles
Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch
And I don't like Anybody very much.

Munce, don't be too quick to take Paris off your list. There are some that fit the stereotype but there are also some very friendly, warm Parisiennes. My two favorite cities to visit in Europe are Copenhagen and Paris (and I'll even admit I'm American in both -- certainly beats the alternative and admitting I'm German).

Steve Z. Traveled Europe and Asia and couldn't agree more with your observations. Right on!!!!

Steve, a truly eloquent post. BRAVO!

Great post Steve. I was about to respond to the guilt ridden "hate America" and "Bush bashers" crowd, but, your post cannot be improved upon. Thanks.

If a Democrat retakes the White House in the November 2008 elections, do you think the attitudes towards the US will improve any??

I have had very great expectations of Barack Obama because he seems like a very different kind of politician, but the Clinton-Obama fighting has turned me off quite a bit. On the Republican side, I usually have viewed President Bush as a sock puppet of Cheney and his friends and am hoping that John McCain has a lot more backbone. I am very interested in whom John McCain will pick as a running mate.

Met 2008 Independent candidate Ralph Nader while he was giving a lecture at the University of MN Law School but even though I admire some of his various activities do not think he would make much of a US President. He is far too polarizing a crusader.

SteveZ: Great post!!! It is only envy, the point was made very well by Tony Blair, who said: Look how many people want to go in and how many people want to get out. That says it all.

Steve Z, I think it's a great post too. And I'm not saying it's right to hate Americans, I'm simply saying our reputation is down the tubes. Right or not, that's what it is. I disagree with you, however, on one thing. I really want our country to be recognized and loved for the wonderful people and democracy it truly is. Call me a wide-eyed optimist, but I have seen in my lifetime, the likes of Kennedy and Regan bring people from all over the world together. This is not about which party we lean towards, it's about the man or woman that's running it. We are so young and small compared to the rest of the world. I want someone in office that reaches out and inspires democracy, not be seen as the bully on the block. Maybe it's Obama or maybe that person hasn't even run yet. But I hope, in my lifetime, I see it again. I remember the cheers for Kennedy, I remember the cheers for Regan. I want to hear them again. Cheers not jeers. That is my hope. Arrogance crumbles Empires. I simply refuse to think there's not an answer.

"This is an impressive crowd: the Haves and Have-more's. Some people call you the elites. I call you my base.” George W. Bush

Thank God this is coming to an end.

Steve Z- Great posts, and right on. The reality is that the same people who hate us now, hated us when Clinton was president, and it has nothing to do with Bush. They used to say the same thing when Reagan was president - how he was going to blow up the world and everyone hated us. Well, the reality is that is just a bunch of lefties in the US spouting political junk, and we all know it.

As far as Taltarzac's comments - Not that I really care that much, but I think if we elect Clinton2, Europeans will think we are crazy for electing someone just because her husband was president.

If we elect Obama, at least we will be breaking the racial divide somewhat. I am not big on anybody from the Chicago democratic machine, they are all crooked. However, Obama is still more palatable than Hillary. I do think he would at least try to change the Rhetoric in Washington - I would guess that a lot of the socialists in Europe would be happy, but I am sure many would ask if he is not experienced enough - I think he is, but I don't agree with his socialist politics.

Although I am not a big McCain fan, I do think he is honest, and is definitely not even close to Bush. Of course, he is not close to conservative either. Just the least of the bad choices. He is popular overseas - and a genuine war hero. He has credibility on internation al issues. Of course, the lefties in Europe won't like him, but for the most part, Europe has moved more right these days and I am sure there are lots who are pulling for him, despite what you will here in the media.

BTW- It says you are from Menominee falls among other places - when did you live there? My Sister lives up there.

I lived in Menomonee Falls a long time ago from around 1959 through 1968. Remember a hill called "Killer Hill" in that town that to a kid had all the fear of it instilled from a name like that, my older brother who visited Menomonee Falls to relive that part of his childhood said that "Killer Hill" is about ten feet high.

Does not Wisconsin have a history of socialist politicians? I had a live-in girlfriend of about a year while working at the U of MN Law Library who claimed to be related to Governor or maybe a Mayor from Wisconsin who was a socialist. Think this may be the guy-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_P._Zeidler-- not sure though. And I am not exactly in contact with that old flame of mine to ask.

I do hope like chelsea24 that a politician takes the White House who has the myth behind him or her like John Fitzgerald Kennedy or Ronald Reagan. Do not see that in Hillary Clinton who just looks like an extremely savvy Washington, D.C. game player. Senator Barack Obama might be that man but his exact positions on various issues are very hard to get a handle on. http://www.votesmart.org/npat.php?can_id=9490

Personally, I am a centrist with a registration as a Democrat but sometimes like in 2000 for vote Republicans like George W. Bush. Never thought we should have started the war with Iraq but now that we are there should try to make sure that all that investment in blood, oil, and money somehow stabilizes Iraq. Not sure that can be done in any way though.

Originally Posted by chelsea24

.... We are so young and small compared to the rest of the world. ....

While 250 years may be young in comparison to some European countries, we must remember that most of those countries are smaller than several of our states. Also, their history is one REALLY built on bigotry and class division, and the use of work permits and language restrictions as a system to keep your neighbors on their side of the border has been the norm forever, and is now just ending wilth the European Union.

The irony is that EU today is politically and economically what the USA was like in 1780. Give then two more generations and their world will not in any way resemble the last century. When I worked for the Swiss (just when EU started to roll) I used to tell a riddle that went: BACKGROUND: Under EU and the ability to work in any EU state, a Portuguese engineer and a Brit engineer get jobs in a German shipyard. The Portuguese's son and the Brit's daughter fall in love and marry. The two of them move to Rome for work. While there, they have two children of their own. QUESTION: What is the nationality of the children? ANSWER: European!

So, say what you want to about America being "young," the reality is America has set the standard for the world politically and socially - and the rest of world is working to catch up to us....

Originally Posted by SteveZ

While 250 years may be young in comparison to some European countries, we must remember that most of those countries are smaller than several of our states. Also, their history is one REALLY built on bigotry and class division, and the use of work permits and language restrictions as a system to keep your neighbors on their side of the border has been the norm forever, and is now just ending wilth the European Union.

The irony is that EU today is politically and economically what the USA was like in 1780. Give then two more generations and their world will not in any way resemble the last century. When I worked for the Swiss (just when EU started to roll) I used to tell a riddle that went: BACKGROUND: Under EU and the ability to work in any EU state, a Portuguese engineer and a Brit engineer get jobs in a German shipyard. The Portuguese's son and the Brit's daughter fall in love and marry. The two of them move to Rome for work. While there, they have two children of their own. QUESTION: What is the nationality of the children? ANSWER: European!

So, say what you want to about America being "young," the reality is America has set the standard for the world politically and socially - and the rest of world is working to catch up to us....

Except it seems many of the ideas the United States has been built on-- like those in the US Constitution-- come from Great Britain in the philosophical ideas of John Locke. Our primary language comes from Great Britain even if the English spoken over there is quite different from that spoken here. And much of the English language comes from words from Latin, old Greek, German, French, Spanish, Italian, modern Greek, Hebrew, Arabic, Japanese, Chinese, Swedish, Norwegian, etc.

Let us also not forget that the US was peopled by millions of native people most of whom were gradually wiped out by Manifest Destiny. Then there's the moral dilemma of slavery....

And many of our celebrities are from Great Britain, Spain, Mexico, Canada, Australia, Germany, Sweden, etc. Just looks at the winners from the February 24, 2008 Academy Awards? The majority of these seemed to be from overseas.

Originally Posted by Taltarzac

Except it seems many of the ideas the United States has been built on-- like those in the US Constitution-- come from Great Britain in the philosophical ideas of John Locke. Our primary language comes from Great Britain even if the English spoken over there is quite different from that spoken here. And much of the English language comes from words from Latin, old Greek, German, French, Spanish, Italian, modern Greek, Hebrew, Arabic, Japanese, Chinese, Swedish, Norwegian, etc.

Let us also not forget that the US was peopled by millions of native people most of whom were gradually wiped out by Manifest Destiny. Then there's the moral dilemma of slavery....

And many of our celebrities are from Great Britain, Spain, Mexico, Canada, Australia, Germany, Sweden, etc. Just looks at the winners from the February 24, 2008 Academy Awards? The majority of these seemed to be from overseas.

Americans do not own the market on good ideas, especially regarding political philosophy. However, where others talked about such ideals, Americans put them to practice. Had Great Britain considered the social philosophies of others, the Union Jack would still be flying 'from sea to shining sea" here. Simply put, they blew it.

The Native American issue, as others, show that mistakes occur. The question now is really whether effective mitigation of the effects of the mistake(s) has(ve) taken place. I'm not one for apologizing for sociological mistakes that I personally have not made (offspring not being responsible for the sins of the father!), but am more concerned that wrongs have been made as right as possible, so that day-to-day life in this country affirms the Second Paragraph of the Declaration of Independence and the Preamble to the Constitution.

Will there be other mistakes? No doubt about it, as we are not infallible creatures. The test is whether we recognize the mistakes and rectify them ASAP. As in the Trace Atkins song, 'American Man,' "He's gonna make mistakes like anyone. But he's gonna make it right 'fore the day is done" Not bad words to live by.....

'Celebrities' are creations of the Fourth Estate and very sharp publicists. They seem to consist almost universally of entertainers - jokesters, actors, athletes, musicians and various categories of artists. Personally, I rate them all the same and would not go out of my way to see or be with any of them. My money pays for their performance - and that's the limit of it. "Renowned persons" are radically different from 'celebrities,' and the renowned to me include persons who have placed themselved in position to exercise moral principles of life by education and action - and we need to have the good judgment to recognize one from another.

It's a big world out there, and we don't have it all cornered. But the last time I looked, even for the 'celebrities' of the world, they still consider one place - by where they congregate, generally work from, and seek their real rewards - as their center of the universe, and that place just happens to be between the Atlantic & Pacific Oceans.