Originally Posted by Guest

I am about to make an observation which is factual, but which I also know will cause some anti-gun liberals to potentially overreact. Nonetheless, believeing in free speech here goes ...

IF (i.e. as in hypothetically) had one of the victims in the Church shooting had a concealed carry weapon, and presumably trained in its use, the racist who shot nine people WOULD have been most likely killed before he shot all nine victims. The news reports said he reloaded several times ...!! One reason none of them were carrying is that is currently against the law in SC (ie carrying in a church) and the SC State Rep / Pastor who was shot supported the ban.

From what I can tell about mass shootings, not even the craziest shooter has targeted a place where he knows there are armed men (eg police station) so in general they go to places where they KNOW no one will be armed to resist ...ie schools, churches etc.

Now, I'm just looking for reasonable and coherent comments ... not ideological rants. Does anyone disagree with the content of what I just said? Is it not common sense?

For the record, I mean no disrespect to the nine dead victims. But, more of them would be alive today if one of them had been carrying is all I'm saying.

Dallas police HQ attack: Suspect James Boulware killed - CNN.com


Did you forget about the shooting at Dallas Police Department headquarters just a week ago?

Originally Posted by Guest

Dallas police HQ attack: Suspect James Boulware killed - CNN.com


Did you forget about the shooting at Dallas Police Department headquarters just a week ago?

No but thanks for mentioning it. The Dallas shooter from what I recall remained outside the building and fired away ... in effect, he launched an assault on the building. He did not walk in and then open up ... because he knew he would be instantly shot dead.

But, back to my point ... do you agree / disagree that if just one of the Church victims had been armed (i.e. concealed) that it's quite likely many if not most of the victims would still be alive today? That's not really political per se but what I think one can argue is a reasonable inference.

Originally Posted by Guest

Dallas police HQ attack: Suspect James Boulware killed - CNN.com


Did you forget about the shooting at Dallas Police Department headquarters just a week ago?

How many did he kill?

Originally Posted by Guest

I am about to make an observation which is factual, but which I also know will cause some anti-gun liberals to potentially overreact. Nonetheless, believeing in free speech here goes ...

IF (i.e. as in hypothetically) had one of the victims in the Church shooting had a concealed carry weapon, and presumably trained in its use, the racist who shot nine people WOULD have been most likely killed before he shot all nine victims. The news reports said he reloaded several times ...!! One reason none of them were carrying is that is currently against the law in SC (ie carrying in a church) and the SC State Rep / Pastor who was shot supported the ban.

From what I can tell about mass shootings, not even the craziest shooter has targeted a place where he knows there are armed men (eg police station) so in general they go to places where they KNOW no one will be armed to resist ...ie schools, churches etc.


Now, I'm just looking for reasonable and coherent comments ... not ideological rants. Does anyone disagree with the content of what I just said? Is it not common sense?

For the record, I mean no disrespect to the nine dead victims. But, more of them would be alive today if one of them had been carrying is all I'm saying.

I heard Lott on Fox spout this, his favorite theory, however the facts are quite different.

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/...-gun-use/?_r=0

Only 230 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm. In the Aurora school shooting, even though that school had an armed guard, a shooting occurred. In the worse school shooting Colorado Columbine, there were armed guards on duty.

Originally Posted by Guest

I heard Lott on Fox spout this, his favorite theory, however the facts are quite different.

http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/...-gun-use/?_r=0

Only 230 justifiable homicides involving a private citizen using a firearm. In the Aurora school shooting, even though that school had an armed guard, a shooting occurred. In the worse school shooting Colorado Columbine, there were armed guards on duty.

I'm not seeking to swap reference links with you ... which I could do. I've seen the tape of where an older guy chases off two criminals armed with weapons penetrate a facility in Ocala for example. About 18 months ago.

Instead, I'm saying it seems logical ... eg you bring "Fox" into it and use the derisive term "spout" which indicates to me you still have an ideological filter vs thinking it through logically.

If you were the SC shooter, you assumed none of the peaceful folk next to you had a firearm. However, if after you fired the first shot, someone started shooting back to you really think the racist would, or could, have stood there, shot 8 more people and reloaded? I hope you will think about it and respond.

Originally Posted by Guest

I'm not seeking to swap reference links with you ... which I could do. I've seen the tape of where an older guy chases off two criminals armed with weapons penetrate a facility in Ocala for example. About 18 months ago.

Instead, I'm saying it seems logical ... eg you bring "Fox" into it and use the derisive term "spout" which indicates to me you still have an ideological filter vs thinking it through logically.

If you were the SC shooter, you assumed none of the peaceful folk next to you had a firearm. However, if after you fired the first shot, someone started shooting back to you really think the racist would, or could, have stood there, shot 8 more people and reloaded? I hope you will think about it and respond.

I just want to support your comment on hearing the reference to Fox and spouting and how it was used. It makes me weary to be honest and it NEVER EVER ceases

Originally Posted by Guest

No but thanks for mentioning it. The Dallas shooter from what I recall remained outside the building and fired away ... in effect, he launched an assault on the building. He did not walk in and then open up ... because he knew he would be instantly shot dead.

But, back to my point ... do you agree / disagree that if just one of the Church victims had been armed (i.e. concealed) that it's quite likely many if not most of the victims would still be alive today? That's not really political per se but what I think one can argue is a reasonable inference.

I very much disagree with that logic. I've owned guns all my adult life but have little use for NRA and the interpertation of 2nd amendment. When you look at the shooting galleries our cities have become you'd really have to stretch to say that is what the Found Fathers had in mind. My home state just passed a anybody can carry a concealed firearm as long as they do not have a felony conviction and can maintain a body temperature of around 98 degrees. So to answer your question I don't this if one of those elderly women had been packing it would have made much difference.

Originally Posted by Guest

I very much disagree with that logic. I've owned guns all my adult life but have little use for NRA and the interpertation of 2nd amendment. When you look at the shooting galleries our cities have become you'd really have to stretch to say that is what the Found Fathers had in mind. My home state just passed a anybody can carry a concealed firearm as long as they do not have a felony conviction and can maintain a body temperature of around 98 degrees. So to answer your question I don't this if one of those elderly women had been packing it would have made much difference.

Totally agree! I remember some time ago when an 80 year old lady got knocked to the ground and her purse stolen. This was at one of the strip malls on Hwy 441 just on the outskirts of The Villages. There was a lot of TOTV chat that she should have been armed and the mugger would have been shot by her.

Regarding the guy who shot the robbers inside the Ocala internet gambling hall - very reckless to start shooting inside the building which had quite a few people in it. If I remember correctly, the robbers got away.

Racism, this is about racism and the inability of those on the right, its news outlet and its leaders to be able to say clearly and without ambiguity that this particular killing of 9 black people was motivated by racism. Why are you on the right so afraid to acknowledge the existence of racism? Why do you deflect and ignore the only real motivation that existed in this event. Why didn't Governor Haley or Senator Graham or the other right wing leaders have the wisdom to simply say "This was a racist act by a racist?" No, instead they suggested it was anti-Christian, or we can never understand such things. Funny, but when a Muslim kills we don't hear about mental illness or gun control or poor parenting like so many posters here have said. No, we correctly hear about an evil ideology which is supported by evil institutions. Racism is the ideology in this particular slaughter, the killer announced his reasons loud and clear and that was very early in the news cycle. And as the original poster I can tell you I did not see this on the Huffington website which I rarely read. So you are wrong, wrong about another thing you seem to be so certain of knowing.

Originally Posted by Guest

Racism, this is about racism and the inability of those on the right, its news outlet and its leaders to be able to say clearly and without ambiguity that this particular killing of 9 black people was motivated by racism. Why are you on the right so afraid to acknowledge the existence of racism? Why do you deflect and ignore the only real motivation that existed in this event. Why didn't Governor Haley or Senator Graham or the other right wing leaders have the wisdom to simply say "This was a racist act by a racist?" No, instead they suggested it was anti-Christian, or we can never understand such things. Funny, but when a Muslim kills we don't hear about mental illness or gun control or poor parenting like so many posters here have said. No, we correctly hear about an evil ideology which is supported by evil institutions. Racism is the ideology in this particular slaughter, the killer announced his reasons loud and clear and that was very early in the news cycle. And as the original poster I can tell you I did not see this on the Huffington website which I rarely read. So you are wrong, wrong about another thing you seem to be so certain of knowing.

Please supply the quotes and links you refer to...the quotes and where they may be read in context !!!

rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun
noun: racism
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
"a program to combat racism"
synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, casteism
.................................................. .................................................. ....
rac·ist
ˈrāsəst/
noun
noun: racist; plural noun: racists
1.
a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
synonyms: racial bigot, racialist, xenophobe, chauvinist, supremacist More
"he was exposed as a racist"
(racially) discriminatory, racialist, prejudiced, bigoted
"a racist society"
adjective
noun: racist; plural noun: racists; adjective: racist
1.
having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another.
"we are investigating complaints about racist abuse at the club"
.................................................. .................................................. ..


THey are truly twisted individuals.....I don't know how his actions were for one category or another..

The black members of the church went a long way toward cutting all the media, special inrest groups, politicians and racist riot supporters, by showing what any true christian believes about their fellow man.......

For example when a twisted person goes into a school and shoots a bunch of kids....what is he?

Or the sniper at the top of a building in TX picking off passers by.

The current one happens to be white on black hence it fits a pigeon hole easier....

Originally Posted by Guest

Please supply the quotes and links you refer to...the quotes and where they may be read in context !!!

Please, do not respond to my question above.

I am sick of the racial stuff. I know where the post I was responding to came from...PJ Media and Daily Beast, two hard left website, but most know what is going on.

I am not going to allow anyone, any longer to do this and make political hay from it. I am so sick and tired of it.

Of course race was a factor...of course he was a racist, but how low can people go to search out what was not said and twist it into a racial thing. Man, there are lows and then there are these lows.

I am sick of the name calling and then saying it is politics. No it is not....this is very sad and those poor people in South Carolina mourning tonight would be angry and sad at this. EXCEPT I might add for the politicians. It is not even how racial crime against any color skin is wrong, it is how this is used. Just disgusting.

This situation will stay with me for a long time. Never saw politics used like this.....ever.

Originally Posted by Guest

Totally agree! I remember some time ago when an 80 year old lady got knocked to the ground and her purse stolen. This was at one of the strip malls on Hwy 441 just on the outskirts of The Villages. There was a lot of TOTV chat that she should have been armed and the mugger would have been shot by her.

Regarding the guy who shot the robbers inside the Ocala internet gambling hall - very reckless to start shooting inside the building which had quite a few people in it. If I remember correctly, the robbers got away.

Well, as it turns out, you remember incorrectly.

The guy who was carrying a concealed weapon prevented a robbery, or worse, inside the building. His actions interrupted the felony in progress. Both criminals were shot, and then later arrested.

Florida Man, 71, Shoots at Alleged Robbers at Internet Cafe - ABC News

I think that, had one of the SC victims been carrying and reasonably competent in the use of a firearm, there's no doubt most of the nine dead people would still be alive.

Perhaps, if instead of the constant harangue to make politics out of racial strife and/or killings, we would drop the politics and read and listen..

"The gruesome massacre of nine people at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church, a historically black church in Charleston, S.C., may amount to the worst racially motivated terror attack of our generation and a deeply violent reminder that racism and white supremacy continue to course through America’s veins. One cannot help but draw comparisons to the firebombing of a black church in Birmingham, Ala., almost 52 years ago".

Charleston, Dylann Roof and the racism of millennials - The Washington Post

Damning article without one mention of conservatives, liberals, politics, Fox News or any of the tripe being handed out on here and various far left websites.

RACISM IS NOT A POLITICAL ISSUE TO BE USED WHEN NEEDED. RACIST IS NOT SOMETHING YOU CALL PEOPLE WHEN THEY DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU.

RACISM IS A PROBLEM THAT NEEDS ADDRESSED WITOUT THE RED AND BLUE STATES AND WITHOUT ANY PARTY AFFLIATION.

Originally Posted by Guest

I'm not seeking to swap reference links with you ... which I could do. I've seen the tape of where an older guy chases off two criminals armed with weapons penetrate a facility in Ocala for example. About 18 months ago.

Instead, I'm saying it seems logical ... eg you bring "Fox" into it and use the derisive term "spout" which indicates to me you still have an ideological filter vs thinking it through logically.

If you were the SC shooter, you assumed none of the peaceful folk next to you had a firearm. However, if after you fired the first shot, someone started shooting back to you really think the racist would, or could, have stood there, shot 8 more people and reloaded? I hope you will think about it and respond.

First my spout comment was more about Lott than Fox.

Actually, I do have a filter through which I view this subject..... A few years ago I watched as a man was hitting his wife/girlfriend in a public parking lot. I told she could come to safety with me....he had a few choice words for me but I just turned my back to him...just a bully. But then 5-6 years later I asked a man to stop throwing rocks at a dog on the street where I lived. He also had a couple of choice words for me and then he pulled a gun out of his fanny pack. I followed him home and then reported him to the police. He spent the weekend in jail, I was set to testify against when he finally gave up and copped to the charges.

Please don't ask if he had a concealed permit or any permit for that matter as it is irrelevant. Had he shot me I wouldn't be any less dead or wounded based on his permit status.

BTW that was the last time I tried to intervene.... to dangerous!!!