There is no need to call each other names.
__________________________________________________ __________________

Nor to be dismissive or other peoples views nor consider those who disagree with you to be shameful, a term used often on here. Telling others to "wake up" and to be ashamed simply because they dont agree with you.......well, THAT is shameful and the ultimate in disrespect.

Red,
I'm sorry to disagree with you. Sorry you think me calling Obama Lord Obama is offensive. But you guy's think anything said about your guy is name calling. I think it's a way to try to stop any conversation on the other side.
You say if anyone mentions Barak Hussein Obamas middle name thats fear mongering. How about John Fitzgerald Kennedy or George "Dubya" Bush? If a persons middle name is fear mongering because some people might be affected by it , then so be it ,be proud of it or change it but don't ask people not to notice. If we cant poke fun at our leaders we better get Leno and Letterman off the air. One of the definitions of Lord is"Royal Leader" so am I disrespecting the leaders of England?. Royal Leader seems to be what people on your side think Lord Obama is.
You say I'm name calling but I haven't seen your post scolding several people on totv on your side who just recently have said of our president that he doesn't have a brain, that he's a blowhard,that others are crazy, ignorant, to be dismissed, are mentally deficient, have alzhiemers, are cowboys, who only speak Drivel. I call that name calling plain and simple.
You think its your decision how your hubby votes but my vote is mine alone.
If Iran gets a nuke and blows Israel off the map , who do you want in the White House? Benj

Actually, I have more than once stated that calling Bush stupid is not appropriate -- he is not the most intelligent president we have ever had but you cannot be stupid and graduate from Harvard and Yale nor can you be stupid and be President. There is no question he stinks at impromptu speaking -- so do many. Heck, some can't even read a teleprompter. Doesn't make them stupid, just makes them unskilled in that area.

I used to post frequently in this forum. I quit before you even got here for the simple reason I got tired of the namecalling, the blind accusations, the battles. I find them distasteful. I'll happily argue politics until I'm blue in the face so long as it doesn't resort to what I was seeing here. As it is, I do try to stay away for the simple reason things haven't changed here. Your "Lord Obama" is offensive whether you think it is or not. Some of the responses you have received are as well. However, you were asked nicely to stop doing it. You chose to continue.

And I didn't say "Barack Hussein Obama" was offensive, I said "Hussein Obama" was offensive. HUGE difference. And, yes, George "Dubya" Bush is offensive to me as well. BTW -- the difference between saying John Fitzgerald Kennedy and Barack Hussein Obama is actually quite simple -- JFK did use and sign his middle name, Obama doesn't. The "Fitzgerald" was used on occasion to remind people that JFK was Catholic (and Irish to boot!) (he was and admitted it), the "Hussein" is used to scare people that BHO is a Muslim (he isn't and has publicly denied it). If you can't see that difference, oh well.

I'm sorry you see nothing wrong with insulting a political candidate on either side with disrespectful terms. As to "you guys," I'm not a Democrat. I have as willingly voted Republican as I have Dem or Green or Independent. I choose by what I feel is the best person for what the job. I voted for Nancy Pelosi and now regret that choice. What this means to me is I care enough to hear all sides and make a choice. I think the same can be said of most of us.

I can think of no reason why you can't discuss Obama without the "Lord" in front of it. If you feel that he is running for king, say so and why. I really doubt he wants to be king. Heck, why anyone would even want to be President is beyond me. It has to be the most thankless job imaginable. I also have difficulty understanding why you think those who support Obama feel he is the royal leader. I know I don't. He's a man. Plain and simple. He's made mistakes. He'll make more. He is inexperienced and that scares me to no end. McCain just happens to scare me more at this time. So, please don't think that everyone who supports Obama is blind to his faults. Most of us aren't. Some are choosing him because they really are afraid of 4 more years of the same. Some because they feel McCain is too old. Some because they truly believe in Obama and do believe he does stand for change.(Personally, I'd love to see Leno, Letterman, et al. off the air. Talk shows bore me.)

IF Iran gets a nuke and blows Israel off the face of the earth, does it matter who is president? A great tragedy will have occurred. However, if there is some chance of preventing it via sanctions or diplomatic venues, I would much prefer that be tried before starting another war.

To me, name calling doesn't belong on a playground. It doesn't belong in a forum for adults discussing politics. Possibly the only place it belongs is at a baseball game and I'm not totally convinced it belongs there, either.

Red scores the point of the day with her quote "So, whether you like or dislike Obama, respect the fact that he has been selected by a very large number of Americans as their choice for President. Whether or not he will become President will depend on voters and the electoral college in November. Don't call him names, don't disrepect your friends', neighbors', enemies' choices. Leave the "lord" title in your mind. It doesn't belong in any public venue any more...."

TOTV is a friendly board. I fear you all are going to end up hating one another. That would be a shame. You are not going to change each other's minds, so what is the point???
Furthermore, I think both sides are full of crap and most of what we hear and read about politics is BS.

Kudos to Samhass!

Thank you, gingersmom. I feel bad when I see people get so furious over something that they can't do a darn thing about.

There is also absolutely no reason for quotes like this ....speaking of the President of the United states...or actually about any other human being when speaking publicly...

"Also, Bush's core belief was found only after years of wandering and drug use."

Does that count as something that shouldnt be said or is that deemed ok ????

Originally Posted by TallerTrees

Sorry, grids do not work well, but tried to separate --

2008 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE COMPARISON TALKING POINTS

ISSUE JOHN McCAIN BARACK OBAMA

Favors new drilling offshore US Yes No

Will appoint judges who interpret the law not make it Yes No

Served in the US Armed Forces Yes No

Amount of time served in the US Senate 22 YEARS 173 DAYS

Will institute a socialized national health care plan No Yes

Supports abortion throughout the pregnancy No Yes

Would pull troops out of Iraq immediately No Yes

Supports gun ownership rights Yes No

Supports homosexual marriage No Yes

Proposed programs will mean a huge tax increase No Yes

Voted against making English the official language No Yes

Voted to give Social Security benefits to illegals No Yes

CAPITAL GAINS TAX

MCCAIN 0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.

OBAMA 28% on profit from ALL home sales. (How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.)

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN 15% (no change)

OBAMA 39.6% - (How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.')

INCOME TAX

MCCAIN
(no changes) Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250

OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts) Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750
Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!

INHERITANCE TAX

MCCAIN - 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)

OBAMA Restore the inheritance tax
Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.

NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA

New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet. New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already) New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity) New taxes on retirement accounts, and last but not least....New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical care as other third-world countries!!!

And this says nothing about stripping of the DoD, appeasement of the terrorists, and loss of US sovereignty under "world citizen" Obama's relinquishment of US rights to the UN and World Court . Nor does it talk of loss of rights in "Fairness Laws" which are only fair to the minority.


You can verify the above at the following web sites:

http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/e...008/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/iss...ues.taxes.html

http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes
http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/p..._on_taxes.html

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-.../barack_obama/
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-...s/john_mccain/

I just one done and now another.....oh well I need something to do after I get my knee replacement next week.

I have a chart of Obama's vs McCain's tax breaks I will post it. But right off the top Obama does NOT support gay marriage. He opposes it on religious grounds. So that one is completely wrong.

I will look into the others.

Originally Posted by TallerTrees

Sorry, grids do not work well, but tried to separate --

2008 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE COMPARISON TALKING POINTS

ISSUE JOHN McCAIN BARACK OBAMA

Favors new drilling offshore US Yes No

Will appoint judges who interpret the law not make it Yes No

Served in the US Armed Forces Yes No

Amount of time served in the US Senate 22 YEARS 173 DAYS

Will institute a socialized national health care plan No Yes

Supports abortion throughout the pregnancy No Yes

Would pull troops out of Iraq immediately No Yes

Supports gun ownership rights Yes No

Supports homosexual marriage No Yes

Proposed programs will mean a huge tax increase No Yes

Voted against making English the official language No Yes

Voted to give Social Security benefits to illegals No Yes

CAPITAL GAINS TAX

MCCAIN 0% on home sales up to $500,000 per home (couples). McCain does not propose any change in existing home sales income tax.

OBAMA 28% on profit from ALL home sales. (How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.)

DIVIDEND TAX

MCCAIN 15% (no change)

OBAMA 39.6% - (How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama becomes president. The experts predict that 'Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market, yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit.')

INCOME TAX

MCCAIN
(no changes) Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250

OBAMA (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts) Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750
Under Obama, your taxes could almost double!

INHERITANCE TAX

MCCAIN - 0% (No change, Bush repealed this tax)

OBAMA Restore the inheritance tax
Many families have lost businesses, farms, ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will only lose them to these taxes.

NEW TAXES PROPOSED BY OBAMA

New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet. New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already) New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity) New taxes on retirement accounts, and last but not least....New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical care as other third-world countries!!!

And this says nothing about stripping of the DoD, appeasement of the terrorists, and loss of US sovereignty under "world citizen" Obama's relinquishment of US rights to the UN and World Court . Nor does it talk of loss of rights in "Fairness Laws" which are only fair to the minority.


You can verify the above at the following web sites:

http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/e...008/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/iss...ues.taxes.html

http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes
http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/p..._on_taxes.html

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-.../barack_obama/
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-...s/john_mccain/

This is like taking candy from a baby.....this email informatin has already been debunked.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactchec...fits_if_i.html

Originally Posted by Bucco

There is also absolutely no reason for quotes like this ....speaking of the President of the United states...or actually about any other human being when speaking publicly...

"Also, Bush's core belief was found only after years of wandering and drug use."

Does that count as something that shouldnt be said or is that deemed ok ????

From what I have seen, heard and read, it is pretty accurate. Personally, I don't care what someone did in their youth so long as it truly harmed no one else (other than your parents -- that's always a given). That is the time to explore, learn and then grow into your beliefs. It is how most of us "discovered" ourselves -- through the trials and tribulations of youth and young adulthood. Since I did not see it as a complete condemnation (from my viewpoint), I could find no reason to really say anything.

These facts have not been 'debunked' as you put it.

I won't post anything further on Obama. You can lead a horse to water as the saying goes.

Also, the name calling did not come from me. I don't appreciate that association.

Time will tell anyway. Unfortunately for most of us, we may have to suffer for other folks unwillingness to .... nevermind. Not worth the next round of insults that will surely come from this Political thread sorry to say.

Quote from: Bucco on Today at 05:58:42 PM
There is also absolutely no reason for quotes like this ....speaking of the President of the United states...or actually about any other human being when speaking publicly...

"Also, Bush's core belief was found only after years of wandering and drug use."

Does that count as something that shouldnt be said or is that deemed ok ?



From what I have seen, heard and read, it is pretty accurate. Personally, I don't care what someone did in their youth so long as it truly harmed no one else (other than your parents -- that's always a given). That is the time to explore, learn and then grow into your beliefs. It is how most of us "discovered" ourselves -- through the trials and tribulations of youth and young adulthood. Since I did not see it as a complete condemnation (from my viewpoint), I could find no reason to really say anything.
__________________________________________________ ___________

Let me understand the rules.....you can make this general all encompassing personal remark about the President of the United States and that is acceptable, HOWEVER, if you bring up the background and training of the young Senator wanting to be President, that does not count nor should it be discussed....you can say this about the President of the United States, but alas, please dont mention it regarding the young senator.

You say I should respect this young man from Illinois for being selected to be the nominee for President, however, dont say his full name because that is disrespect (I KNOW you didnt say it exactly that way), but it is ok to make fun of the President because you dont agree with his policies.

I asked the question if it was appropriate for this kind of talk on here since you were offended by others saying things about Sen Obama.

Obviously you feel it is appropriate to say these kind of things since you didnt answer if it was appropriate or not...just said you think it is accurate !

Very disappointing.

I am amazed at folks who post here. I have NEVER called anyone a name...I have NEVER called Sen Obama anything but Sen Obama. I have said if he is elected I will respect him as my President, but I did bring up things about his training. For that I have been told I am without shame..that I need help of some kind of professional help, but the same folks post things about a young man using drugs which as you say happens and I hve never heard anyone make a remark about Sen Obama on that count.

The rules on here seem to be one way for one group and another for the rest of us peasants.

Originally Posted by TallerTrees

These facts have not been 'debunked' as you put it.

I won't post anything further on Obama. You can lead a horse to water as the saying goes.

Also, the name calling did not come from me. I don't appreciate that association.

Time will tell anyway. Unfortunately for most of us, we may have to suffer for other folks unwillingness to .... nevermind. Not worth the next round of insults that will surely come from this Political thread sorry to say.

I checked your links...I could not find anything like the "chart" you posted. Did you follow my link? Look at my posts I am not an Obama supporter but I think we need to decide on facts. Those tax rates are wrong. Please send a link to those tax rates and I will look at it and then compare to what other website say. Did you get this from a website or was it an email?

I have defended Bush previously on different issues, including comments about his lack of ntelligence, inability to speak off the cuff and getting ill in public. I didn't, and still don't, think something that is pretty accurate needs defending even if I find it personally repugnant. There have been many derogatory comments made about Obama here. I have not said they should not be made if they are based on fact and I have only called someone a name (a bigot) because of the non-stop posts about Obama being a Muslim and lumping all Muslims with the extremists.

I have not said that using Obama's full name is an issue. I have said that using only part of his name (middle and last, just middle) or putting first and last in initial caps and middle in all caps is wrong. I have said that using Obama's full name is a reminder that his father was a Muslim is wrong. If you consistently use people's full names, great. That becomes a non-issue.

I said nothing about the threads about what Democrats and Republicans believe. I didn't say anything the first two times what liberals believe was posted. I finally had had enough the third time. I didn't like any of them and didn't find any of them amusing. I don't like stereotypes. Period.

I rarely say anything the first time someone says something. No reason to. It is when something is repeated over and over that I will and do speak up and it is regardless of who is saying it or what the subject is. Disrespect is disrespect. I feel that once or even twice can be a slip or just emotions talking. If I see it said repeatedly, then I know it is deliberate and I will speak up. I've spoken up more for Obama for the simple reason that there have been more attacks against him and too many were based on non-issues. Check my posts.

If all of that means I have one set of rules for Obama supporters and another set for those who don't, so be it.