Originally Posted by ilovetv

What does "African American" have to do with anything?????? Cain does not even USE the term African American!!!

He said clearly on t.v. this weekend (to Huckabee) when asked why he does not refer to himself as "African American", he replied that his whole life experience is American, not African, and he refers to himself as a Black American.

Cain's race has nothing to do with his rise or fall in this campaign. Leave the race baiting OUT of this!

Race baiting, I think not. I think Cain would be a fine candidate, just don't see the Right Wing voting him in. Save this post and I hope you can prove me wrong. If he becomes the REP nominee, I will vote for him and I will admit how wrong I was.

Originally Posted by RichieLion

Easy for me. Murder of a innocent life is worse than the acts you describe, in the eyes of any person of Christian faith, like Herman Cain.

Hardly a worse choice. You may have, in theory, deceided that the 12 year old rape victim should be forced to have a child conceived in pain and fear. That 12 year old is NOT theoretical to me. Have a little girl in your office, scared, in pain, brutalized and afraid and tell her she has to give birth? That is a choice she and parents need to make, not you , not your beliefs, not your faith. It has to be THEIR choice. I would never support taking that choice out of the hands of the family.
And as I have said so many times before, if you support taking away choice, then you best be willing to pony up some more money to take care of them. I have met few prolife supporters who have a plan for what happens after that child is born (other then someone will adopt them) and even fewer who are willing to put their money where their mouth is.

Originally Posted by ladydoc

Hardly a worse choice. You may have, in theory, deceided that the 12 year old rape victim should be forced to have a child conceived in pain and fear. That 12 year old is NOT theoretical to me. Have a little girl in your office, scared, in pain, brutalized and afraid and tell her she has to give birth? That is a choice she and parents need to make, not you , not your beliefs, not your faith. It has to be THEIR choice. I would never support taking that choice out of the hands of the family.
And as I have said so many times before, if you support taking away choice, then you best be willing to pony up some more money to take care of them. I have met few prolife supporters who have a plan for what happens after that child is born (other then someone will adopt them) and even fewer who are willing to put their money where their mouth is.

Well said. I am stunned how anyone can put their views of this issue between the patient and Doctor. Anyone that does is saying up yours GOD, I will take care of this as I know better than any other person on earth. Self Righteous jerks in my opinion. If they would read and follow the Christian teachings, they would leave this to each individual. Let GOD be the judge and not some Bourbon breath redneck in the local bar. Sorry, I am just very pasionate about the rights of women being stomped on by bible thumpers.

Originally Posted by The Villager II

Well said. I am stunned how anyone can put their views of this issue between the patient and Doctor. Anyone that does is saying up yours GOD, I will take care of this as I know better than any other person on earth. Self Righteous jerks in my opinion. If they would read and follow the Christian teachings, they would leave this to each individual. Let GOD be the judge and not some Bourbon breath redneck in the local bar. Sorry, I am just very pasionate about the rights of women being stomped on by bible thumpers.

Here's a scenario:
You demolish buildings and I hire you to demolish one for me.
You come and ask me if there is anyone in the building first. I reply I don't know, there might be one person, but I doubt it. I tell you to just go ahead and demolish it...Are ya going to do it?
Now you are the doctor and I hire you to remove a fetus from my womb. But neither one of us is sure how close to being an actual human being this fetus is...Are ya going to do it?
It might be a choice between a woman and a doctor...or is it a choice between a woman, a doctor, and smaller human who can't voice his/her choice?

Originally Posted by KatzPajamas

Here's a scenario:
You demolish buildings and I hire you to demolish one for me.
You come and ask me if there is anyone in the building first. I reply I don't know, there might be one person, but I doubt it. I tell you to just go ahead and demolish it...Are ya going to do it?
Now you are the doctor and I hire you to remove a fetus from my womb. But neither one of us is sure how close to being an actual human being this fetus is...Are ya going to do it?
It might be a choice between a woman and a doctor...or is it a choice between a woman, a doctor, and smaller human who can't voice his/her choice?

I understand what you say, but as a Christian, I will do what GOD commands me to do and I will let him be the judge. Only GOD knows this issue for sure and GOD has commanded us to judge not and we shall not be judged.

Originally Posted by The Villager II

I understand what you say, but as a Christian, I will do what GOD commands me to do and I will let him be the judge. Only GOD knows this issue for sure and GOD has commanded us to judge not and we shall not be judged.

I haven't mentioned judging anyone...I am not judging anyone...I am talking about defending the under dog! With all due respect, please go back and read my post and tell me that you will demolish the building knowing that you don't know for sure if someone is in there...

Originally Posted by KatzPajamas

I haven't mentioned judging anyone...I am not judging anyone...I am talking about defending the under dog! With all due respect, please go back and read my post and tell me that you will demolish the building knowing that you don't know for sure if someone is in there...

NO, I would not demolish the building under those circumstances. I respect your opinion, but I am firmly pro-choice and I believe GOD wants me to be that way. If we could just come up with a better way to stop unwanted pregnancy other than the ridicules abstinence. Nature would never allow that to work.

Originally Posted by ladydoc

Hardly a worse choice. You may have, in theory, deceided that the 12 year old rape victim should be forced to have a child conceived in pain and fear. That 12 year old is NOT theoretical to me. Have a little girl in your office, scared, in pain, brutalized and afraid and tell her she has to give birth? That is a choice she and parents need to make, not you , not your beliefs, not your faith. It has to be THEIR choice. I would never support taking that choice out of the hands of the family.
And as I have said so many times before, if you support taking away choice, then you best be willing to pony up some more money to take care of them. I have met few prolife supporters who have a plan for what happens after that child is born (other then someone will adopt them) and even fewer who are willing to put their money where their mouth is.

For me, nothing you've said excuses the murder of an innocent. If you believe yourself to be Christian, you must agree or you're a hypocrite to your faith.

I say this just to make a point. I don't demand that you agree with me, or act accordingly. Everyone must live according to their own conscience.

But if you believe, you must also believe the words of The Lord when he said he "knew you before you were born". He acknowledged that unborn life, can you do less?

Originally Posted by The Villager II

Well said. I am stunned how anyone can put their views of this issue between the patient and Doctor. Anyone that does is saying up yours GOD, I will take care of this as I know better than any other person on earth. Self Righteous jerks in my opinion. If they would read and follow the Christian teachings, they would leave this to each individual. Let GOD be the judge and not some Bourbon breath redneck in the local bar. Sorry, I am just very pasionate about the rights of women being stomped on by bible thumpers.

No need to be disrespectful. No need to blaspheme. You know not your bible. I have a right to my point of view. I force no one to do as I believe. It's your own conscience you must live with. It's your own faith you must resolve.

Originally Posted by RichieLion

For me, nothing you've said excuses the murder of an innocent. If you believe yourself to be Christian, you must agree or you're a hypocrite to your faith.

I say this just to make a point. I don't demand that you agree with me, or act accordingly. Everyone must live according to their own conscience.

But if you believe, you must also believe the words of The Lord when he said he "knew you before you were born". He acknowledged that unborn life, can you do less?

Would it be OK if the women was not a Christian. I personally think abortion is a terrible thing to do, but for other self righteous people to make that decision for you is just as terrible to me. I believe GOD will judge those that judge others and not in a good way. Pray for the unborn but keep out of others folks business.

Originally Posted by The Villager II

Would it be OK if the women was not a Christian. I personally think abortion is a terrible thing to do, but for other self righteous people to make that decision for you is just as terrible to me. I believe GOD will judge those that judge others and not in a good way. Pray for the unborn but keep out of others folks business.

Where have I said I make that decision for anyone? You would begrudge me the simple right to my own opinion.

But if you believe in God, and you think God would approve of you murdering an innocent life, I think you should think some more.

Originally Posted by RichieLion

Where have I said I make that decision for anyone? You would begrudge me the simple right to my own opinion.

But if you believe in God, and you think God would approve of you murdering an innocent life, I think you should think some more.

And if it is murder, then GOD will deal with it and not you or I. Your opinion is just like mine, I think it is wrong as anything on earth, but I believe the women has the right to make that decision on her own without our interference. Let Ro v Wade be the law of the land. Thank the S. Court for being smart enough to see it that way.

Originally Posted by The Villager II

And if it is murder, then GOD will deal with it and not you or I. Your opinion is just like mine, I think it is wrong as anything on earth, but I believe the women has the right to make that decision on her own without our interference. Let Ro v Wade be the law of the land. Thank the S. Court for being smart enough to see it that way.

Just for the sake of argument; since you've just expressed your beliefs.

What other circumstances, in your view, justify the murder of innocents?

You don't really have to answer. I just would like you to think about it.

Originally Posted by RichieLion

Just for the sake of argument; since you've just expressed your beliefs.

What other circumstances, in your view, justify the murder of innocents?

You don't really have to answer. I just would like you to think about it.

If at the time of conception the life begins, then the act of abortion would be murder as I understand murder. I personally feel that a life begins when the egg is joined by the sperm on moment one.

I also believe in Law and Law today says abortion is legal. Until that is changed, I support a womens right to decide.

Richie, you said it very clearly, "I say this just to make a point. I don't demand that you agree with me, or act accordingly. Everyone must live according to their own conscience."

From what you said - and I am not twisting words around - you are Pro-Choice. With that I mean, you personally do not believe in abortion but it is up to each woman to make up her own mind.

That is the kind of attitude that marks an intelligent person.