Originally Posted by ijusluvit

Yikes! I've never been part of a crucifixion before!

Let's look back at your opening post on this thread Bucco. You were valiantly trying to defend George Bush for his lack of activity as President, then by comparison, using the statements and actions of Obama to condemn him.

I submitted that this was flawed for at least the following reasons:

1) Bush will never be defended in the future, and should not be now, for the things he did not do. With the exception of one action, the self-serving, (and for Dad too), tragic invasion of Iraq, which may be one of the greatest mistakes ever made by a US President, Bush will be historically judged an ineffective, rather clueless, inactive President. The irreverent historians already liken him to Roman emperor Nero. I think it's time you stopped trying to defend the indefensible. I'm not interested in attacking Bush, I'd dearly love to forget about the whole tragic period, move on and focus on actions with possibilities for rebuilding our country.

2) nothing you can say about Bush compares to, or reflects on President Obama. It's a different time, with different problems. Even similar problems, like Iran, have take on entirely different characteristics and complexity. We need to withhold judgement and refrain from attacking every single statement and action just because it's different from what someone else said or did.

3) your 'rant' was full of references to the "Promises". Again, don't be duped by the media types and extremists who want to stamp every statement a 'promise' and then indict the President for every action which does not turn out to be you precise definition of that 'promise'. The point I made above and felt was the most important was the reference to the nature of the Executive branch of the government, as provided by the Constitution. We should never be so naive to think the President has the power to make his 'promises' come true. That's why Presidential statements are NOT promises, but efforts to focus attention, rally support and influence the approval of measures which will improve our nation. Since you keep demanding to know anything the President has accomplished, just take yesterday's action for example. By sheer force of will and a campaign of insistence and persistence, the President is securing a rather large escrow account from BP to repay the government (taxpayer) and individual victims. This is an aggressive, and I think unique action, and in the country's best interest. I don't think many Presidents would have had the nerve or to pull this off before the offending company simply declared bankruptcy and left us holding the bag. Think about it. The President has absolutely no power or authority over an entity like BP, yet we are able to get some initially impressive concessions.

4) you, and others even more riled up, should be reconsider judging lots of things wrong, just because there are lots of things being said and done. There is so much nit picking about every statement, innuendo, possible action, contemplated action and real action, that it's easy to think that pile of nits signifies that everything is wrong and we're headed for disaster. I'm just thankful that we have an active, engaged President who continues to work hard knowing full well that mountains of criticism await.

To summarize, I respect your statement above conceding that you will allow history to judge the President overall. The Health Care law still has you twirling, but I submit I am just as correct as you when I say this is a major positive step, an enormous improvement over our present health care delivery system. Why continue to attack and insist it will destroy us, when this total negative speculation is just the same knee-jerk reaction which has accompanied virtually everything done by the federal government since 1789? Let's let history judge this new program too.

If you've read my other posts, you would know why I think a number of other actions and efforts by President Obama are positive steps. Despite the blanket indictments by those in this forum who sneeringly ridicule "liberals" for never citing reasons for their positions on the issues, I've spent lots of time on that. I don't think I need to keep repeating myself. But I do think this post is important because it is so easy to forget how difficult the job of the Chief Executive is, and how easy it is to rush to judgement.

The only thing I want to get across to you is this...

MY POST WAS NOT A DEFENSE OF GEORGE BUSH...it was protesting exactly what you are doing. If you read, you will find that my "rant" was because each and everytime our current President is discussed, you and those who love this guy come on here and go on about George Bush.

I was NOT defending...I am just sick of talking about him when he has been gone for 17 months and I simply wanted to point out the things your hero has done that you cannot blame on Bush.

WOW.....a lecture on how important the job of President is. Now llisten, I posted on here during the campaign, during the primary such things. I DO understand how difficult it is...I KNOW what is required to do it...I know the experience you need to cope with it. You cannot lecture me on that nor will you hear me blame the current President for anything that he was not involved with.

I never blamed him totally for the deficit...I am fully aware of what happened prior to his taking office. I DO HOWEVER TAKE exception to his adding to it IN THE MANNER IN WHICH HE DID. He signed a bill, as he said he would NEVER EVERY DO...a bill that was by even his estimates 60% pork and called it a stimulus bill. He then went into the back rooms, payed off people with bribes for votes to get a bill that the country does not want AND WE CANNOT EVER PAY FOR....and even lost his way on the principle reason...COSTS...he threw that all aside for political gain. You tell me what I have said that is not true PLEASE !

I do not know what other things you have posted that he has done that are positive. He did begin with his rock star status to bring folks together in the world, but his policies and actions are making what was bad even worse. He continues ALL of the "terrible" war against terror policies of the last administration very quietly while giving the impression he is not.

He has lied so openly about transparency and lack of being a political WH that it has become a joke as he is considered to be running the most closed WH and most political WH in history...and all of this in 17 months.

Sorry I dont recall all those positive things he has done that you have posted....I know WHAT HE SAYS....I just dont recall all the things he has done !

Originally Posted by waynet

http://www.hopeandchange.net/2009/11...-of-obama.html

I stopped reading at #1 and #2...those orders he gave to reduce cost because he said it IT NEVER HAPPENED NOR WILL IT !

Plus I dont critique many websites,but Daily Kos is charged with spreading the "word".....TRY READING HARD NEWS SOMEDAY !!!

I had a response to waynet's post and messed it up when I was editing it so I deleted the whole thing. I'll try again.

Good job waynet. I give you kudos for posting things you perceive as accomplishments of Obama. Unlike so many other Obama supporters who post here, you put forth an effort. It was really interesting reading the list and there are a few real accomplishments.

I read all 90. More than once. I am not picking the accomplishments apart and I'm not going to go through them each one by one and respond. I realize you support Obama and you gave proof from your point of view of his accomplishments.

Now, you and I don't agree on alot of things but even you can admit that by the true definition of "accomplishment" there are some things on that list that aren't accomplishments.

To go over just a few, not all, just a few that I don't agree with: number 1 and 2, ordering reviews and studies isn't really accomplishing anything.

8. The White House and federal government are respecting the Freedom of Information Act

9. Instructed all federal agencies to promote openness and transparency as much as possible
10. Limits on lobbyist’s access to the White House
11. Limits on White House aides working for lobbyists after their tenure in the administration

Even you have to admit those are laughable.

Also, 21. The prison at Guantanamo Bay is being phased out...really?

With all the trips we have paid for the Obama's to take, it isn't an accomplishment to tout he paid to remodel the living room out of his own pocket. Even if it's true. That isn't an accomplishment.

waynet, many of the things Obama has done has made the balance of power in the federal government established by the US Constitution unbalanced by giving to much power to the Executive Branch. I don't like that. I am not saying you are un-American. I am just saying I don't like big government and policies that unsurp the Constitution. I don't want to change America in the same way the Progressives outline that they want to change America.

But I'm glad you posted something.