Originally Posted by junglejim

Everyone here should send any Social Security and Medicare payments back! Show the government we don't need them! We don't need a military, police or fire department and close those public schools! We don't need a federal highway or airport system! The uber-wealthy need all those tax dollars they are wasting on such useless things!

Is this another Paul Waldman quote?

I choose to believe what I want to believe.

Just A thought! Would someone compare the Insurance Companies administrative costs to Medicare administrative costs. Also, compare average salaries of Ins. company employees to Medicare employees. How many of each made a million dollars in salaries and bonuses. How much net profit was made by Ins. companies vs Medicare. How much did each pay in dividends to stock holders.

Please, don't confuse me with facts. I won't accept them, unless they support what I've already decided to believe.

Originally Posted by junglejim

Everyone here should send any Social Security and Medicare payments back! Show the government we don't need them! We don't need a military, police or fire department and close those public schools! We don't need a federal highway or airport system! The uber-wealthy need all those tax dollars they are wasting on such useless things!

Let's get rid of the national parks, the FAA, the EPA and the FDA, as well. They're all a part of government and do NOTHING well. If we're lucky, we can even get rid of the IRS. That would eliminate the funding of any kind of government altogether!

Originally Posted by mrhetzel

...How much net profit was made by Ins. companies vs Medicare. How much did each pay in dividends to stock holders...

A few of your questions can be answered with some independent research. But an overall answer to this question is..The private health insurance market is dominated by four gigantic insurers: UnitedHealth, WellPoint, Aetna, and Cigna. In the last five years, these companies have combined to earn over $44 billion in profits; UnitedHealth alone has made over $17 billion in profits over that period. That's enough to hire a whole lot of really good lobbyists methinks.

Here's a thoughtful article that should be read to balance the volatile anti-government opinions that are so prevalent...http://prospect.org/cs/articles?arti...res_true_price

Originally Posted by mrhetzel

...How much net profit was made by Ins. companies vs Medicare. How much did each pay in dividends to stock holders...

A few of your questions can be answered with some independent research. But an overall answer to this question is..the private health insurance market is dominated by four gigantic insurers: UnitedHealth, WellPoint, Aetna, and Cigna. In the last five years, these companies have combined to earn over $44 billion in profits; UnitedHealth alone has made over $17 billion in profits over that period. That's enough for the senior management of these companies to hire some really good lobbyists to make sure that whatever legislation being considered keeps those profits--and their bonuses--flowing, I think.

Here's a thoughtful article that should be read to balance the volatile anti-government opinions that are so prevalent...http://prospect.org/cs/articles?arti...res_true_price

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

A few of your questions can be answered with some independent research. But an overall answer to this question is..the private health insurance market is dominated by four gigantic insurers: UnitedHealth, WellPoint, Aetna, and Cigna. In the last five years, these companies have combined to earn over $44 billion in profits; UnitedHealth alone has made over $17 billion in profits over that period. That's enough for the senior management of these companies to hire some really good lobbyists to make sure that whatever legislation being considered keeps those profits--and their bonuses--flowing, I think.

Here's a thoughtful article that should be read to balance the volatile anti-government opinions that are so prevalent...http://prospect.org/cs/articles?arti...res_true_price

Paul Waldman thoughtful????? Surely you jest?????

http://townhall.com/columnists/Jonah...th_care?page=1

Kahuna,
Going back to your original post, I do think it is a shame when a town meeting on health care is held, paid protesters and hecklers show up to disrupt the whole meeting. These bums do not represent the American people. The majority of Americans have given a mandate to make our health care system better and to end the wars for profit. When the last administration was in, town hall meetings had paid audiences where the speaker was cheered on by the faithfull. Remember the one where the troops in the photo op were actors? Looks like the Democrats will have to take this low road as well. Where has a country gone? The brown shirts are still trying to end our freedom.
At least the cash for clunkers appears to be working. The ones benefitting the most are ordinary American citizens! American citizens coming first? It's been such a long time since we heard that! Maybe there is hope!

Originally Posted by junglejim

Kahuna,
Going back to your original post, I do think it is a shame when a town meeting on health care is held, paid protesters and hecklers show up to disrupt the whole meeting. These bums do not represent the American people. The majority of Americans have given a mandate to make our health care system better and to end the wars for profit. When the last administration was in, town hall meetings had paid audiences where the speaker was cheered on by the faithfull. Remember the one where the troops in the photo op were actors? Looks like the Democrats will have to take this low road as well. Where has a country gone?
At least the cash for clunkers appears to be working. The ones benefitting the most are ordinary American citizens! American citizens coming first? It's been such a long time since we heard that! Maybe there is hope!

Interesting..I want to know more.

Paid protesters show up to disrupt the whole meeting

Is there any proof?

These bums do not represent the American people

Is there any proof these people are bums?

The majority of Americans have given a mandate to make our health care system better and to end the wars for profit

What majority has given a mandate for a better health care system? What war for profit? Who started this war?

The brown shirts are still trying to end our freedom.

Where are the brown shirts...and why are thet trying to end your freedom?

Me thinks you have some splaining to do Ricky.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eI1K...layer_embedded

Villages Kahuna,

You've made my point. There are some things Government can do better and less expensively than private industry because there is no profit motive controling everything that's done. It's interesting to me that those most opposed to changes are those who have good health care coverage---could FEAR be be affecting their judgement?

One only needs to see how wonderful the Post Office is compared to those nasty private for profit companies like UPS and Fedex. The Post Office shows what a real Non-Profit can do! When you REALLY, Really need something delivered who do you call?

Originally Posted by bobfl

One only needs to see how wonderful the Post Office is compared to those nasty private for profit companies like UPS and Fedex. The Post Office shows what a real Non-Profit can do! When you REALLY, Really need something delivered who do you call?

That's comparing apples to oranges. UPS and Fedex cherry pick the most profitable delivery of packages. The USPS is left with individual letters and junk mail that require a lot more handling per item for a LOT less money.

Originally Posted by mrhetzel

Villages Kahuna,

You've made my point. There are some things Government can do better and less expensively than private industry because there is no profit motive controling everything that's done. It's interesting to me that those most opposed to changes are those who have good health care coverage---could FEAR be be affecting their judgement?

I respectfully disagree. "Profit" takes many forms, and in the government world, it's promotions, power, agency budgets (the bigger the budget, the greater the staff size and image), and NO incentive to economize.

The biggest joke is the 3rd quarter of the fiscal year for government agencies. This is when the agencies review their budgets to see how much could possibly end up un-obligated (e.g., unspent) at the end of the 4th quarter. The goal is to obligate/spend every last dime, because if the agency doesn't, the next fiscal year will mean no growth (inflationary, new programs, etc.) in budget and possibly a reduction. That circumstance is to be avoided at (pardon the pun) at all costs. That's why government never costs less from one year to the next, and why agencies seem to live on long after their usefulness is gone.

3rd quarter is when the marketeers hit the agencies big-time with "unsolicited proposals" to soak up some of that un-obligated money. The government procurement offices in the last two weeks of August, all of September, and the first week of October are working at a vicious pace to get all of the fiscal year's money spent, with agencies clamoring to insure the moneys are obligated/spent prior to October 1st (the first day of the new fiscal year), because the money "disappears"from use if not spent.

It's silly, but that's the way it is.

So, just because government is "nonprofit" does not make it a better bargain. There just is no value to the appointees, senior executives and top GS's to bring their agencies/office in "under budget," and in fact doing so can be a career-killer.

Originally Posted by bobfl

...When you REALLY, Really need something delivered who do you call?...

To be honest, in the last couple of years I've been using USPS almost exclusively. As far as I'm concerned, they're the least expensive for small to medium-sized packages and their delivery times and reliability are equal to UPS or FedEx. Their flat-rate Priority boxes can't be beat. And with a phone call or a click of a button on the computer, they'll pick the package up at your front door at no extra charge. It'd cost an arm and a leg to have either of the private services do that.

As far as important letters are concerned, USPS overnight mail is as reliable as FedEx and about 15% cheaper. UPS is better for large, heavy packages, but you still have to wrestle them to the local UPS office or franchise. In The Villages, Villages Pack 'n Ship plays that role and their upcharges on top of the UPS or FedEx rates are absolutely exhorbitant.

I've tried them all and I don't agree with your assessment of the Postal Service.

Originally Posted by SteveZ

I respectfully disagree. "Profit" takes many forms, and in the government world, it's promotions, power, agency budgets (the bigger the budget, the greater the staff size and image), and NO incentive to economize.

The biggest joke is the 3rd quarter of the fiscal year for government agencies. This is when the agencies review their budgets to see how much could possibly end up un-obligated (e.g., unspent) at the end of the 4th quarter. The goal is to obligate/spend every last dime, because if the agency doesn't, the next fiscal year will mean no growth (inflationary, new programs, etc.) in budget and possibly a reduction. That circumstance is to be avoided at (pardon the pun) at all costs. That's why government never costs less from one year to the next, and why agencies seem to live on long after their usefulness is gone.

3rd quarter is when the marketeers hit the agencies big-time with "unsolicited proposals" to soak up some of that un-obligated money. The government procurement offices in the last two weeks of August, all of September, and the first week of October are working at a vicious pace to get all of the fiscal year's money spent, with agencies clamoring to insure the moneys are obligated/spent prior to October 1st (the first day of the new fiscal year), because the money "disappears"from use if not spent.

It's silly, but that's the way it is.

So, just because government is "nonprofit" does not make it a better bargain. There just is no value to the appointees, senior executives and top GS's to bring their agencies/office in "under budget," and in fact doing so can be a career-killer.

Bingo It is that mind-set that wants to control Health care!!!!

Originally Posted by mrhetzel

Villages Kahuna,

You've made my point. There are some things Government can do better and less expensively than private industry because there is no profit motive controling everything that's done. It's interesting to me that those most opposed to changes are those who have good health care coverage---could FEAR be be affecting their judgement?

Could you be more specific? What has the government EVER run better and less expensively?