Originally Posted by RCT

100% of sexaholics started with "normal sex, too. So, let's ban sex.

My wife beat the government to the punch

Originally Posted by Yoda

Just WHY is pot illegal? Would you outlaw it today based upon its own value or lack thereof? Why would you outlaw pot today if today were day one of hearings to do so?

Yoda

Why have prescription drugs at all? Should they all be over-the-counter, including morphine and anything else that can affect perception and judgment? If not, then where is the bright line?

When amateur pharmacologists and chemists dabble in areas where science is considered necessary to determine all of the what-if's, that's when severe and dangerous errors occur. It's the same whenever amateurs try to make experiment in areas which contains trained and experienced professionals. It does not matter if it is lawyers making medical decisions, physicians playing lawyer, or any other similar circumstance.

The "legalize pot" bandwagon, especially when the wagon is painted and pulled by individuals with no true scientific knowledge in the subject and only see it as a toy for their recreation, lacks credence.

When a consortium of reputable medical research institutes - such as Johns Hopkins, Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc. - are willing to present a viable case to the Food and Drug Administration that marijuana taken of X quality taken in Y quantum over Z time frame is tolerable to the human system to a to-be-determined criteria, then the same protection to the public that we demand of bottled ketchup and canned beer can be attained. Doesn't the public deserve that much, even those who only want to play with the stuff?

I'm sorry. I read your response but I couldn't find the line that said "I would outlaw pot because......................

Could you make it a one paragraph answer? Perhaps one line?

I am not trying to justify legalizing pot. I question the wiseness of seeing it advertised. I taught drugs to security people and sone police officers at one time. I taught the history of drug usage as a part of the course. Pot was very interesting and hence my question.

Originally Posted by russ_boston

my wife beat the government to the punch

lolololololololololololololololol!

Originally Posted by Yoda

I'm sorry. I read your response but I couldn't find the line that said "I would outlaw pot because......................

Could you make it a one paragraph answer? Perhaps one line?

I would outlaw pot because....mind-altering substances in the hands of amateurs provides great potential for danger to those in proximity of the substance user.

The "I can handle it" excuse is lame, because while "you" as the center of the universe think "you" have that much self-control to not be a danger, "you" do not control your drug-using neighbor who may not be as disciplined as "you" are. It's no different than "you" are a great driver who does not need to be bothered with speed laws and lane usage because of your great reflexes and perception, but your neighbor may not be as good a driver as you and needs restriction so as not to be an on-the-road danger.

How's that?

Originally Posted by BuckeyeNuts

Steve hit a nail on a head.

When pot is involved...how do you legislate the various types of weed? If you legalize it...then are you legalizing all forms of pot? Being a former pot smoker 10 years ago, I have tried many different types and some were actually very safe...others were off the chart in THC content. The Colombian brown "dirt weed" was very light stuff. Jamaican and Hawaiian were stronger. But then you get hydroponic labs that calculate everything...the perfect soil and conditions to grow the best buds and sometimes the batches are amazingly potent. Green Dragon, Purple Dinosaur, White Rhino, Orange Lizard...one bong hit of some of that and you go to a different place for about 20 minutes. How can they possibly legislate that? It is just as powerful a lot of harder drugs...but for a shorter duration.

That would force government to agree to a safe THC content...like that could ever happen.

I hear the government grown pot is pretty strong compared to the average stuff. The real problem is that people with Aids, glaucoma and other health issues are really helped by the stuff. Should the government be the only ones that should have the right to grow the pot and sell it? Should it be legalized for health issue only? Do you need to be over 21? What if you are under 21 and are sick? It creates a quagmire. Should our health insurance cover it?

The entire country [minus 54 million] must have been stoned to elect Obama in the first place.

Well, we certainly hope you weren't "stoned" when you went into the voting booth! You seem to be an expert. I, personally, am only advocating the legalization for medical purposes.

Originally Posted by SteveZ

Why have prescription drugs at all? Should they all be over-the-counter, including morphine and anything else that can affect perception and judgment? If not, then where is the bright line?

When amateur pharmacologists and chemists dabble in areas where science is considered necessary to determine all of the what-if's, that's when severe and dangerous errors occur. It's the same whenever amateurs try to make experiment in areas which contains trained and experienced professionals. It does not matter if it is lawyers making medical decisions, physicians playing lawyer, or any other similar circumstance.

The "legalize pot" bandwagon, especially when the wagon is painted and pulled by individuals with no true scientific knowledge in the subject and only see it as a toy for their recreation, lacks credence.

When a consortium of reputable medical research institutes - such as Johns Hopkins, Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc. - are willing to present a viable case to the Food and Drug Administration that marijuana taken of X quality taken in Y quantum over Z time frame is tolerable to the human system to a to-be-determined criteria, then the same protection to the public that we demand of bottled ketchup and canned beer can be attained. Doesn't the public deserve that much, even those who only want to play with the stuff?

The FDA can't even keep us safe from peanuts!

A current doctoral thesis from Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm, on the neurobiological effects of early life cannabis exposure, gives support for the cannabis gateway hypothesis in relation to adult opiate abuse. THC exposed rats showed increased motivation for opiate drug use under conditions of stress. However, the cannabis exposure did not correlate to amphetamine use.
Research has shown that cannabis acts to increase heart frequency by as much as 40 beats per minute. A study reported by The American Heart Association in February 2000, concluded that smoking marijuana can precipitate a heart attack in persons with preexisting heart conditions. One hour after smoking marijuana, the likelihood of having a heart attack is four and one-half times greater than if the person had not smoked, according to the research.
An additional health concern is the effect that marijuana smoking has on the lungs. Cannabis smoke carries more tars and other particulate matter than tobacco smoke.
More seriously, marijuana has been linked to the onset or worsening of certain psychiatric conditions, including panic disorder, schizophrenia, and depersonalization disorder. Persons diagnosed with or at risk for these conditions should not use marijuana.
No health hazards or side effects are known in conjunction with the proper administration of designated therapeutic dosages." Smoking the herb, however, "… leads almost at once to euphoric states (pronounced gaiety, laughing fits)," according to the PDR, while "long term usage leads to a clear increase in tolerance for most of the pharmacological effects." The ability to safely operate automobiles and machinery can be impaired for up to eight hours after ingesting the herb. Chronic abuse results in "laryngitis, bronchitis, apathy, psychic decline and disturbances of genital functions," according to the PDR.
Some people may be hypersensitive to marijuana. They may be allergic or hypersensitive to the plant. Chronic sinus fungal infections have been linked to chronic marijuana smoking.
THC Substance abuse A substance derived from the hemp plant Cannabis sativa, the leaves of which are smoked, producing a hallucinogenic effect due to the neurochemical Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol–THC, which has a cognate THC receptor in the brain Immune system THC blocks monocyte maturation Nervous system Impaired motor skills, defective eye tracking and perception; THC receptors are most abundant in the hippocampus, where memory is consolidated, explaining MJ's detrimental effect on memory and least abundant in the brainstem, explaining why death by overdose is unknown with chronic marijuana abuse; heavy use is associated with residual neuropsychological effects, as evidenced by ↑ perseverations on card-sorting, and ↓ learning of lists Respiratory tract MJ is inhaled or 'toked' in a fashion that differs from that of tobacco; in order to maximize THC absorption and elicit the desired 'high.', the subject prolongs inhalation, markedly ↑ carbon monoxide and tar, and thus is possibly more detrimental than tobacco smoke Therapeutic uses MJ is an analgesic, but unusable as such, due to the inseparable hallucinogenic effect; it is of use for 1. Control of N&V in terminal CA–2 antiemetic cannabinoids are

Ok good research.

Next time could you use spacing a little better for readability? Tough on the old eyes!

I still stick by my assertion that I'd rather be in the car with a stoner than a drunk! Of course neither one should be driving.

Originally Posted by REH7380

A current doctoral thesis from Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm, on the neurobiological effects of early life cannabis exposure, gives support for the cannabis gateway hypothesis in relation to adult opiate abuse. THC exposed rats showed increased motivation for opiate drug use under conditions of stress. However, the cannabis exposure did not correlate to amphetamine use.
Research has shown that cannabis acts to increase heart frequency by as much as 40 beats per minute. A study reported by The American Heart Association in February 2000, concluded that smoking marijuana can precipitate a heart attack in persons with preexisting heart conditions. One hour after smoking marijuana, the likelihood of having a heart attack is four and one-half times greater than if the person had not smoked, according to the research.
An additional health concern is the effect that marijuana smoking has on the lungs. Cannabis smoke carries more tars and other particulate matter than tobacco smoke.
More seriously, marijuana has been linked to the onset or worsening of certain psychiatric conditions, including panic disorder, schizophrenia, and depersonalization disorder. Persons diagnosed with or at risk for these conditions should not use marijuana.
No health hazards or side effects are known in conjunction with the proper administration of designated therapeutic dosages." Smoking the herb, however, "… leads almost at once to euphoric states (pronounced gaiety, laughing fits)," according to the PDR, while "long term usage leads to a clear increase in tolerance for most of the pharmacological effects." The ability to safely operate automobiles and machinery can be impaired for up to eight hours after ingesting the herb. Chronic abuse results in "laryngitis, bronchitis, apathy, psychic decline and disturbances of genital functions," according to the PDR.
Some people may be hypersensitive to marijuana. They may be allergic or hypersensitive to the plant. Chronic sinus fungal infections have been linked to chronic marijuana smoking.
THC Substance abuse A substance derived from the hemp plant Cannabis sativa, the leaves of which are smoked, producing a hallucinogenic effect due to the neurochemical Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol–THC, which has a cognate THC receptor in the brain Immune system THC blocks monocyte maturation Nervous system Impaired motor skills, defective eye tracking and perception; THC receptors are most abundant in the hippocampus, where memory is consolidated, explaining MJ's detrimental effect on memory and least abundant in the brainstem, explaining why death by overdose is unknown with chronic marijuana abuse; heavy use is associated with residual neuropsychological effects, as evidenced by ↑ perseverations on card-sorting, and ↓ learning of lists Respiratory tract MJ is inhaled or 'toked' in a fashion that differs from that of tobacco; in order to maximize THC absorption and elicit the desired 'high.', the subject prolongs inhalation, markedly ↑ carbon monoxide and tar, and thus is possibly more detrimental than tobacco smoke Therapeutic uses MJ is an analgesic, but unusable as such, due to the inseparable hallucinogenic effect; it is of use for 1. Control of N&V in terminal CA–2 antiemetic cannabinoids are

Excellent post. This scientifically supports my position that it isn't healthy to use and unsafe in some (?most) instances. The question or point, however, of the thread was whether the use of it should be decriminalized. Remember, we know alcohol, alcoholism, chronic alcoholic liver disease, the tragic consequences of DUI imparts a huge economic, social, health, personal toll on our nation. At some point the legislators recognized prohibition of its use, sale, manufacture could not be successfully carried out by the Federal gov't. That is the current issue re cannabis.

alcohol, which as I have just used the word is all encompassing and generic...alcohol!
A more appropriate comparison should be the comparison of alcohol ABUSERS to pot users. This would exclude the masses of us that enjoy beverages with an alcoholic content and varying flavor or function.

Addiction issues. I guess that is a function of the brain of each individual.
To obese people is food an addiction? If yes does it qualify for comparison like alcohol abuse? Pot use? Food abuse (obese/fat!)?

Can drug use in moderation be good for anybody? Scientific conclusions say no.

How about other addictions that lead to death and dismemberment? Like cell phones and driving.

You will see how attitudes about the subject matter shift as one or another includes individuals.....OR NOT!!!

BTK

[QUOTE=SteveZ;191638]I would outlaw pot because....mind-altering substances in the hands of amateurs provides great potential for danger to those in proximity of the substance user.

As best I understand your position, anything that would pose a "Potential" threat to those in proximity should be outlawed.

do you support prohibition of alcohol?

Peanuts? They won't even serve them if anyone on the plane is allergic.

I see good reason to outlaw behavior. It is hard to justify outlawing a substance that may or may not have a direct influence on that behavior.

I am not a pot user but I am also not a nanny stater.

Thank you for your view point.

Yoda

We spend millions and millions of dollars trying to repair the effects of alcohol and drugs on our society through detox centers, crisis centers and rehabs.and professionals. We should distinguish that alcohol is a "desease". To be classified as a "disease" it must have a) symptoms and b) be predictable. And alcohol and alcoholics falls under this definition. It is unclear that marijuana has ever been identified as a disease and from all of the data I have seen it has not.
I wonder how many that would like to see pot decriminalized have visited a detox center or a crisis center or a rehab. How many have tried to give therapy to someone who is in the last stages of their life because of drug or alcohol usage and abuse. Or have seen the effects on the family.
Having said this I have a hard time understanding why we would want to unload another drug on the already stressed out next generation and set up more detox, rehabs and professionals to handle the influx of abusers. I hear the argument that trying to police it is costing a great deal of money. I believe it is folly to think it will not have to be policed if legal and the costs of treatments will mimic those of the other drug users and health costs will be significantly impacted.
I am not a do gooder and not fanatic on the usage of alcohol but I am practical and am a believer that somewhere all this "lets distort reality" should be controled.

Originally Posted by REH7380

A current doctoral thesis from Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm, on the neurobiological effects of early life cannabis exposure, gives support for the cannabis gateway hypothesis in relation to adult opiate abuse. THC exposed rats showed increased motivation for opiate drug use under conditions of stress. However, the cannabis exposure did not correlate to amphetamine use.
Research has shown that cannabis acts to increase heart frequency by as much as 40 beats per minute. A study reported by The American Heart Association in February 2000, concluded that smoking marijuana can precipitate a heart attack in persons with preexisting heart conditions. One hour after smoking marijuana, the likelihood of having a heart attack is four and one-half times greater than if the person had not smoked, according to the research.
An additional health concern is the effect that marijuana smoking has on the lungs. Cannabis smoke carries more tars and other particulate matter than tobacco smoke.
More seriously, marijuana has been linked to the onset or worsening of certain psychiatric conditions, including panic disorder, schizophrenia, and depersonalization disorder. Persons diagnosed with or at risk for these conditions should not use marijuana.
No health hazards or side effects are known in conjunction with the proper administration of designated therapeutic dosages." Smoking the herb, however, "… leads almost at once to euphoric states (pronounced gaiety, laughing fits)," according to the PDR, while "long term usage leads to a clear increase in tolerance for most of the pharmacological effects." The ability to safely operate automobiles and machinery can be impaired for up to eight hours after ingesting the herb. Chronic abuse results in "laryngitis, bronchitis, apathy, psychic decline and disturbances of genital functions," according to the PDR.
Some people may be hypersensitive to marijuana. They may be allergic or hypersensitive to the plant. Chronic sinus fungal infections have been linked to chronic marijuana smoking.
THC Substance abuse A substance derived from the hemp plant Cannabis sativa, the leaves of which are smoked, producing a hallucinogenic effect due to the neurochemical Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol–THC, which has a cognate THC receptor in the brain Immune system THC blocks monocyte maturation Nervous system Impaired motor skills, defective eye tracking and perception; THC receptors are most abundant in the hippocampus, where memory is consolidated, explaining MJ's detrimental effect on memory and least abundant in the brainstem, explaining why death by overdose is unknown with chronic marijuana abuse; heavy use is associated with residual neuropsychological effects, as evidenced by ↑ perseverations on card-sorting, and ↓ learning of lists Respiratory tract MJ is inhaled or 'toked' in a fashion that differs from that of tobacco; in order to maximize THC absorption and elicit the desired 'high.', the subject prolongs inhalation, markedly ↑ carbon monoxide and tar, and thus is possibly more detrimental than tobacco smoke Therapeutic uses MJ is an analgesic, but unusable as such, due to the inseparable hallucinogenic effect; it is of use for 1. Control of N&V in terminal CA–2 antiemetic cannabinoids are

OK. And the point is?