Originally Posted by rokinronda

I asked for no comments on 9-11, many agreed, except a few.........You couldn't respect the day enough to refrain? Back and forth back and forth. Same rhetoric and bull!!! Such disregard, Shameful in my eyes!!! Go Figure! (modified to protect the innocent!)

Unless you had someone's name in here before the modification...I don't think you owed an apology.....however I will warn you...if Bucco sees this you will suffer the wrath! I was called very arrogant and I am sure a few other words...just not in writing... :redface:

Benj's wrath seems a little less and just demanded an apology...which makes me think a name was posted here...anyway...be a ware.....we are being watched....and me be pounced on.....


:cop: :cop: :cop:

;D

McCain has been asked point blank what type of computer he used, he answered that he was computer illiterate. He never stated he was physically unable to use a keyboard, which for many people is merely putting a finger on a key utilizing the "hunt and peck" method of typing.

Now, suddenly, he is physically unable to use a keyboard? Give us all a break!! Perhaps we can get Stephen Hawking to weigh in on how to use a keyboard and give McCain some lessons.

What a crock!

Spare all of us your phony indignation!

And Steve Z., how did Karl Rove et al treat Max Cleland last time he ran for the senate. Where was your indignation then?

Originally Posted by chelsea24

Sorry SteveZ, but the spins you're starting to put on things have starting to sound like crap. Would you like to address in a bipartisan way, if possible, the venomous, completely false ads put out by the McCain camp. I know that your postings, at times, at least make the attempt to look at both sides, this posting on this ad does not.

There are brilliant people much more "disabled" than John McCain, even quadriplegics, in many careers, professors etc., that with special equipmentuse the computer.

I'm sorry, there's no way McCain can't use or learn modern technology. He just "doesn't get it."


***And guess what! I bet you that Franklin Roosevelt would have learned to use the computer!

BTK, are you quoting "Pamela Anderson"!!!!!

There are several things I and many others used to be able to do prior to military service that others take for granted as being "easy" and "simple." That does not mean the mind has turned to cabbage, nor does that mean not having the physical dexterity of years ago make me and many others ready for the scrap heap. That also doesn't mean that we should be dismissed because we haven't followed your rules of conduct as to what we should do, learn, adapt to, or better yet disappear to make way for the young, vigorous, dymanic and charismatic.

I would venture to say that you are not a member of the demographic consisting of military veterans with varying levels of disability. You can postulate until the end of time about how such an advertisement is fine and dandy, since you are still defending everything that comes out of the Obama/Biden camp as the Third Testament.

THIS WAS INSULTING and all the excuses why and justifications you can conjure doesn't change that fact. I don't know who edits the Obama/Biden advertisements, but it sure wasn't a disabled veteran. This advertisement reminds me so much of the 1960's and the actions and attitude of the flower children and draft-dodgers whose attempt at self-worth was through denigration of everyone else.

You so offhandedly state "I'm sorry, there's no way McCain can't use or learn modern technology. He just "doesn't get it." Yet you have no idea as to why he doesn't use or why he may not want to be bothered with a prothstetic aid, or if he even has a need. You have no idea as to what he has endured physically for the past 30+ years, yet since he hasn't done what you think you would have done in similar circumstances (pray that you never have to!), he must be inferior. You in your quest to portray Sen. McCain as someone who should be put out on an ice flow don't seem interested as to why - it's just so easy to condemn and slam instead.

There was a time the Democratic Party stood for caring of the individual, especially if there were "special needs" of any kind. If the Obama/Biden believes that "winning" means trashing the physical diabilities of others, especially disabled veteran, or portraying those disabilities in such a manner as to insinuate that Sen. McCain is some kind of dunce one step short of being committed because of physical limitations, then the Party has really gone to the weasels.

Sen. Obama speaks ever so kindly about caring for veterans, and then has the gall to demonstrate such caring by insults for what is still endured by many veterans years after wearing the uniform. Such hypocracy! Such two-faced action make me question all the more whether what is said by the Obama/Biden campaign is being done to "win at any cost" and what will happen afterwards bears no resemblance to what was promised during the campaign.

That Sen. McCain you are ready to write off as a doddering old fool jsut recently sculpted and fought for the best shot at comprehensive immigration reform in the last three decades. There is no body of law more complicated than the U.S. immigration laws (including the tax codes). Add to that the campaign finance reforms, and several other complicated pieces of legislation. Where are the examples of what the super-smart Democratic candidate has authored in his time in Congress - when he has bothered to be there rather than on the campaign circuit?

If the Obama/Biden campaign believes such an advertisement will swing the youth vote by insinuating disabled veterans as inferior, what will they do to all of us older, disabled types after the election?

Originally Posted by bimmertl

What a crock!

Spare all of us your phony indignation!

And Steve Z., how did Karl Rove et al treat Max Cleland last time he ran for the senate. Where was your indignation then?

You can call it "phony" all you want. I consider it an insult.

Max Cleland is a hero of mine. Add to that list Fred Franks, Daniel Inouye and a host of others who survived the worst and gave back more than most.

The treatment and attitude towards disabled veterans as anything other than honorable - no matter which political party or is involved - should be, in my book, a concern. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it, as the end does not justify the means.

If this is all about "my party has to win not matter what and no matter how they do it," then we are all the losers.

A few years ago I saw McCain at a book signing in Denver. Hundreds of people were in line and McCain signed all their books. No doubt, on his book tours he signed thousands of books. So he can use a pen but can't somehow type on a keyboard due to his disability. Get real!

Here's a link to a book signing photo of McCain at a signing. I'm sure those playing the disability card will come up with some more nonsense explaining that somehow you can use a pen but still can't use a keyboard.

http://www.dreamstime.com/john-mccai...g-image4244810

Yes, Max Cleland is a hero. Tell that to Karl Rove and the Bush crowd!

Steve, thank you for sparing me the effort of responding to those who will never understand. I'm sure their getting tired of my long of wind posts anyway. You articulated your response brilliantly. Thank you for your service to our country.

SteveZ, there's nothing in the ad that talks or even eludes to "veterans". That's your interpretation. It's clear from this post that Republicans don't like to get pushed back, they just like to push. Well, I for one, hope Senator Obama does more and more of these ads. :bigthumbsup:

Chelsea, my reference to Anderson was the media being so very hard up and dumb to quote her dislike for Palin....now isn't she a motivating force!
There isn't anything I can think of or imagine that is worth quoting from her....she is the antithesis of anything anybody (except porn related individuals) would be interested in.

Jump shift subjects:

There is no correlation to anything based on whether one wants to know how to use a computer or not. There are many who simply prefer not to partake. It certainly isn't a criteria that helps define one candidate or another.
Just a partisan anecdotal exercise.

Both parties are heavily into slime based, school yard tactic, tit for tat campaigns.
They are all spending time comparing what he or the other guy (or gal) said last and how much "badder" it was than the last one.
All it amounts to is trying to convince the gullible and naive, which out house smells better (or worse). A waste of time and gray matter.

BTK

BTK

Originally Posted by chelsea24

SteveZ, there's nothing in the ad that talks or even eludes to "veterans". That's your interpretation. It's clear from this post that Republicans don't like to get pushed back, they just like to push. Well, I for one, hope Senator Obama does more and more of these ads. :bigthumbsup:

Then you miss the point completely.

This isn't a Republican or Democrat issue.

I'm as computer-illiterate as most people I know my age. I can type, and that makes handling email and word processing (although I sure get sick of each year having to figure out "upgraded" programs) reasonable. I don't play games with computers, can't handle ExCel or any of the spreadsheet programs, and the project manager software is too cumbersome to be worth anything to me. However, many of my colleagues ten-thirty years younger whiz through this stuff. Yet, these computer-literate types are the ones who are lost when the batteries die and can't count to 21 without being arrested for indecent exposure.

Does that make me a fossil ready for the tar pit? As long as the brain still works, they always end up coming to me (and others like me) for the answers to problems that with all of their computer-literacy they still can't answer.

So, if the goal of the Obama/Biden campaign is to pander to the youth by saying those of us who are of "the Villages" age are incompetent, then Obama/Biden don't need my vote or my money. This former Democrat now again an Independent has learned a lot of the character of the Democratic ticket by its latest message.

As far as "not saying veteran," that's weasel-wording. The message was clear that the man, Sen. McCain, should have been put to pasture, and we all know the man, his history and his situation and how he got there.

Now, I'm only one vote, but it is mine and I try to spend it on people of character, dignity and principle. The O/B campaign sure isn't showing any of those characteristics. They just show total intolerance and bigotry.

That's my opinion. I really don't care if Obama followers find this as heresy. Please tell your candidate he has really shown his true colors, and may he and Hanoi Jane be very happy with each other.

And one last thing - there used to be a time when being a Democrat meant being able to think for yourself, caring about your fellow man, and trying to emulate a principled life in spite of others. This campaign makes it look like the party philosophy is now "It's what the DNC says that counts, and one shall not question the DNC's position in the slightest."

Stevz

It appears you have somewhat of a different view than before. When you initially mounted your soap box, this ad was a direct attack on a disabled veteran who is physically unable to use a computer, even though he can sign thousands of books without problem, hike the Grand Canyon and has never said he is physically unable to use a computer, or I guess eat with a knife and fork which would also make sense based upon your definition of the physical limitations he doesn't have. You even went so far as to allege that perhaps McCain doesn't use a computer as he might need a prosthetic aid, talk about a stretch. Discrimination against the physically handicapped, (your words) what a bunch of crap!

Now it's all about McCain being old and pandering to the youth? Then you throw in the references to the draft dodgers and flower children and Hanoi Jane. Steveo, your problem is you are stuck in the 60's! That stuff is 40 years ago, get over it! You are the personification of Walter Sobchak from "The Big Lebowski"!

Now just wait a minute. We can't really evaluate the full implications of computer literacy until we get a report of Obama's ability.

Ya see, until one looks at both sides of an issue, how can one possibly grind on about how the deficiency matters.

However before taking on the task of spending the time on the research, please ask yourself.....DOES THIS REALLY MATTER, in the overall? Really?
I would have thought issues of substance would be a priority. And please if you are inclined to respond with this is an indicator of whatever.....save the keystrokes.

Am I ever glad I can do email!!!!!!!! :joke:

BTK

Originally Posted by bimmertl

Stevz

It appears you have somewhat of a different view than before. When you initially mounted your soap box, this ad was a direct attack on a disabled veteran who is physically unable to use a computer, even though he can sign thousands of books without problem, hike the Grand Canyon and has never said he is physically unable to use a computer, or I guess eat with a knife and fork which would also make sense based upon your definition of the physical limitations he doesn't have. You even went so far as to allege that perhaps McCain doesn't use a computer as he might need a prosthetic aid, talk about a stretch. Discrimination against the physically handicapped, (your words) what a bunch of crap!

Now it's all about McCain being old and pandering to the youth? Then you throw in the references to the draft dodgers and flower children and Hanoi Jane. Steveo, your problem is you are stuck in the 60's! That stuff is 40 years ago, get over it! You are the personification of Walter Sobchak from "The Big Lebowski"!

If it's "soap-boxing" because I don't follow the O/B campaign like some pied piper is leading the way, and you don't like anyone disagreeing with how your favorite candidate conducts business, that is your problem, not mine.

Many times poeple on this board use the approach of personal attacks on the writer as their rebuttal, and you apparently are not different. That's again is your problem, not mine.

Yes, the ad was anti- disabled veteran and age discriminatory to me. Again, that is my interpretation and if you don't agree with that, you have that right. However, I do not have to agree with you, either (my right) and if that someone could actually see things differently than as a cheerleader for your candidate, again, that is your problem, not mine.

So, continue the personal attacks, snide remarks, and whatever turns you on. I try to give all of teh candidates the benefit of the doubt - even your candidate when the religious junk was being spread because that was unprincipled - but I guess the glass doesn't allow viewing in but one direction.

Yes, I may be "stuck in the '60s," but it is better than being blind in the 00's....

Originally Posted by SteveZ

Then you miss the point completely.

This isn't a Republican or Democrat issue.

I'm as computer-illiterate as most people I know my age. I can type, and that makes handling email and word processing (although I sure get sick of each year having to figure out "upgraded" programs) reasonable. I don't play games with computers, can't handle ExCel or any of the spreadsheet programs, and the project manager software is too cumbersome to be worth anything to me. However, many of my colleagues ten-thirty years younger whiz through this stuff. Yet, these computer-literate types are the ones who are lost when the batteries die and can't count to 21 without being arrested for indecent exposure.

Does that make me a fossil ready for the tar pit? As long as the brain still works, they always end up coming to me (and others like me) for the answers to problems that with all of their computer-literacy they still can't answer.

So, if the goal of the Obama/Biden campaign is to pander to the youth by saying those of us who are of "the Villages" age are incompetent, then Obama/Biden don't need my vote or my money. This former Democrat now again an Independent has learned a lot of the character of the Democratic ticket by its latest message.

As far as "not saying veteran," that's weasel-wording. The message was clear that the man, Sen. McCain, should have been put to pasture, and we all know the man, his history and his situation and how he got there.

Now, I'm only one vote, but it is mine and I try to spend it on people of character, dignity and principle. The O/B campaign sure isn't showing any of those characteristics. They just show total intolerance and bigotry.

That's my opinion. I really don't care if Obama followers find this as heresy. Please tell your candidate he has really shown his true colors, and may he and Hanoi Jane be very happy with each other.

And one last thing - there used to be a time when being a Democrat meant being able to think for yourself, caring about your fellow man, and trying to emulate a principled life in spite of others. This campaign makes it look like the party philosophy is now "It's what the DNC says that counts, and one shall not question the DNC's position in the slightest."

That's weasle-wording! HA! Want to debate the lipstick on a pig ad from McCain! Please.

Originally Posted by chelsea24

That's weasle-wording! HA! Want to debate the lipstick on a pig ad from McCain! Please.

Where I grew up, two wrongs did not make a right. Have not seen that ad, but if the purpose was discriminatory in any way, then both sides are into slop and have given up on discussing issues, but have turned the campaign into an innuendo war.

We all have our hot-button issues - mine are obvious. My disgust goes towards all four candidates, but not in equal proportion. They are the ones on the ballot, not anyone posting to this board (unless one of you is a candidate posting under a pen-name). So, when these boards get into name-calling and snide remarks made to each other, that does not say much for our abilities as adults to communicate.

BTW - If any political lemming wants to take verbal pot-shots at me for not kissing your favorite candidate's ring (Rep or Dem) - have a ball. It just goes to demonstrate how weak your position is when that's the best you got! Sticks and stones..... I've heard worse from a lot better and much tougher.

SteveZ, my entire career was in advertising and public relations -- as a writer. The essence of this "computer" ad was to show just how out of touch with today's world, McCain is. And, guess what. In my opinion, he is. And yes, it is targeted to the younger voters. So again, to dissect this ad: it's geared to the younger voter, and to show how out of touch with today's world that John McCain is. This ad does the job superbly.

It has NOTHING to do with disabled veterans! NOTHING! And as far as disabled people using computers and keeping up, do you know who Professor Stephen Hawkings was?



The computer system attached to his wheelchair is operated by Hawking via an infra-red 'blink switch' clipped onto his glasses. By scrunching his right cheek up, he is able to talk, compose speeches and research papers, browse the World Wide Web, and write e-mails. The system also uses radio transmission to provide control over doors in his home and office. His computer was created by an American engineer. He once joked that his computer "had an American accent".

Nice try!