vk - a small technical explanation:
the prez did not sign an executive order - as janmcn noted in another post, the new immigration policy is based on "prosecutorial discretion" described in a memo by janet napolitano.

an executive order would be one way to aviod enforcing existing law and prosecutorial discretion is the way to aviod not enforcing the law by executive order.

and as far as either/any of the boys defining their position on immigration - it is no longer necessary - they can just spend the rest of the days up until the election criticizing obama for having failed the immigrant community by not embracing all of them and a meaningful resolution to the need for a revised on immigration. long-term policy

Originally Posted by Bucco

VK...
[snip]
But I have a question....the new announcement, if I understood correctly and it is possible that I did not, gives work rights to illegals to compete with US citizens IF they meet certain criteria, one of which is being here so many years.

How can anyone verify the amount of time an ILLEGAL has been here ? Are/were there Illegal stamps of some sort to verify this as a USA citizen must do to get a job ?

Just curious

bucco - isn't the granting of work rights what g w bush attempted to do with the 'guest worker' plan that he had - that even some democrats voted against?

and as far as verifying the amount of time an illegal has been here - this gives janet naploitans the opportunity to reduce unemployment by hiring an entire ne cadre of investigators and processors to review and approve or reject the applications from these illegals.

i want to know what the dept of homeland security is going to do with the applicants who do NOT get approved for this program! do ya think they will be sent packing to their homeland? hmmmmmm

if the head hombre in mexico thinks this is such a good idea - how come he is not offering the same reciprocity to illegals in his country?

Yelp all you want about it but it is approved of by around 65% of voting Americans and basically the only people against it are the republicans who would be against anything this Administration did.

Basically, they are outdone, outwitted, and outplayed.

Originally Posted by Bavarian

The real problem here is that BHO circunvented the Congress to do this. He ignored the Constitution, He had solid Democract majorities in Congress for his first two years and could have gotten this passed the legal way.

Plus the Republican plan would have worked Constitionaly through Congress and then BHO would have to sign it.

As you recall, on Dec 18, 2010, the House of Representatives passed The Dream Act, and the Senate defeated it by a 55-41 vote after republicans filibustered the bill requiring 60 votes. Five democrats voted no, three republicans voted yes, and four were absent. This was when the president had solid majorities in congress.

If you're speaking about Senator Marco Rubio's Dream Act Bill, which was never written, it would be highly doubtful it would pass in congress today.

Originally Posted by buggyone

Yelp all you want about it but it is approved of by around 65% of voting Americans and basically the only people against it are the republicans who would be against anything this Administration did.

Basically, they are outdone, outwitted, and outplayed.

Republicans conveniently forget that their hero, President Ronald Reagan, signed the Immigration Reform and Control Act in 1986, which granted amnesty to nearly three million illegal immigrants. At that time, he proposed having open borders between the US, Mexico and Canada.


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=128303672

Originally Posted by janmcn

As you recall, on Dec 18, 2010, the House of Representatives passed The Dream Act, and the Senate defeated it by a 55-41 vote after republicans filibustered the bill requiring 60 votes. Five democrats voted no, three republicans voted yes, and four were absent. This was when the president had solid majorities in congress.

If you're speaking about Senator Marco Rubio's Dream Act Bill, which was never written, it would be highly doubtful it would pass in congress today.

I am sure that you want to post with some integrity and sure dont want things to be presented without all the facts, so I will help you...

.....IF all Democrats had voted for it, then it would have passed !! (and actually, 3 Republicans voted for it)

.....The bill that was voted down actually allowed for TWO misdemeanors to qualify

.....There was no requirement to actually GRADUATE from college.

.....The bill voted down also added quite a lot to the deficit.

Oh, and by the way, you talk about filibuster....in reality, the Dream Act that was voted down WAS NOT FILIBUSTERED. What was filibustered was the Democrats attempt to add it to a defense bill.

Now, you are welcome......I KNOW you did not want to omit these facts.

.....

Originally Posted by janmcn

Republicans conveniently forget that their hero, President Ronald Reagan, signed the Immigration Reform and Control Act in 1986, which granted amnesty to nearly three million illegal immigrants. At that time, he proposed having open borders between the US, Mexico and Canada.

Not forgotten by me for sure.

It was a one time amnesty with conditions...those conditions were that we would make a concerted effort to control the borders.....this country did not do that. Second condition was that an tough empoyer verification program would be implemented.

His idea was a good one, but he trusted folks so much....the left has tried hard to NOT patrol the borders and surely did not want illegals to have to verify anything..they dont want them to have to verify to VOTE, for gosh sake.

Not all the lefts fault by the way, we have not done what was intended by his act to patrol and secure the borders.

These were the stated purposes but you just forgot to mention them, an I might add that you make assumptions about people all the time...like ONLY Republicans are against this bill, etc.

So once again, you just forget to add these little small details that can change meanings !

Originally Posted by njbchbum

bucco - isn't the granting of work rights what g w bush attempted to do with the 'guest worker' plan that he had - that even some democrats voted against?

and as far as verifying the amount of time an illegal has been here - this gives janet naploitans the opportunity to reduce unemployment by hiring an entire ne cadre of investigators and processors to review and approve or reject the applications from these illegals.

i want to know what the dept of homeland security is going to do with the applicants who do NOT get approved for this program! do ya think they will be sent packing to their homeland? hmmmmmm

if the head hombre in mexico thinks this is such a good idea - how come he is not offering the same reciprocity to illegals in his country?

This President has copied so much of what Bush did or wanted to do after doing nothing but defaming him...he still uses him as an excuse and still uses Bush's policies on a daily basis, but since he NEVER has press events to take question nobody can ask him about any of this.

And finally, you folks have spent most of the day skewing facts and presentin things out of context to make yourselves feel good...isnt America great where you dont have to tell the full truth...just what you select.....but anyway...

"Bloomberg News is touting a new poll that appears to shows strong public support for President Barack Obama’s de facto amnesty for many illegal immigrants, but the poll is skewed and pushes respondents toward approval, say critics.

“It doesn’t mention that at least one and a half million illegal aliens are being offered work permits to compete with the 20 million under- and unemployed Americans who can’t find a full-time job,” said Roy Beck of NumbersUSA.

The June 19 poll also “doesn’t mention that this is a form of amnesty that offers no new enforcement to keep it from enticing more illegal immigration,” he said.

“If you don’t tell people what the issues are, you can get any result you want,” said Dan Stein, the president of the Federation for American Immigration Reform. “It is a gross disservice to public discourse to create these ridiculous polls and pass them off as scientific,” he added.

Read more: Critics denounce Bloomberg poll indicating support for Obama's immigration pivot | The Daily Caller


Now it is just opinion of course but since we had a poster go off on a Newsmax poll, why not critique this one also.

BUT, here is the one part you have to read and it quotes PEW, a pretty respected group.......this is important in reality dont you think or are we not going to stay in reality and only play a GAME of wins and losses.....

"The president’s de facto amnesty was announced June 15. It could provide work permits to 1.4 million people over the next few years, according to the Pew Research Center, amid an economy where roughly 20 million people are unemployed or underemployed.

However, that 1.4 million number may be boosted by the arrival of new immigrants with fraudulent documents, said critics."

This must make you so proud

Originally Posted by coralway

.... And 66% of independents approve .......

coralway - do you think any of the 64% or 66% surveyed are unemployed? do you think the pollster's question was 'are you in favor of the us govt giving up to 800,000 illegal immigrants work permits that can be renewed every two years when so many us citizens are out of work or underemployed?

i doubt it. i would have liked to see the percentages of THAT survey!

just ANOTHER reason to ignore any polls other than the one on election day!

Amazing, isn't it that some posters will go to such lengths of their criticism of the President's brilliant plan and way of making a decent directive of it.

They appear to be concerned about jobs for Americans. I believe the jobs should go to those who can compete and do the best job. However, I do not believe that is their concern.

Daily Kos: Mitt Romney Lies Again - FACT: GOP Filibustered Dream Act Twice in 2010

Originally Posted by buggyone

Amazing, isn't it that some posters will go to such lengths of their criticism of the President's brilliant plan and way of making a decent directive of it.

They appear to be concerned about jobs for Americans. I believe the jobs should go to those who can compete and do the best job. However, I do not believe that is their concern.

Daily Kos: Mitt Romney Lies Again - FACT: GOP Filibustered Dream Act Twice in 2010

Thanks for posting this...Romney is right on with all his comments. Thanks

AND Yes I am concerned about jobs for Americans, and yes I am concerned about the deficit, and if you took the time to read my posts, I am also concerned about a forum that presents obvious party notes full of half truths and non truths.

Originally Posted by njbchbum

coralway - do you think any of the 64% or 66% surveyed are unemployed? do you think the pollster's question was 'are you in favor of the us govt giving up to 800,000 illegal immigrants work permits that can be renewed every two years when so many us citizens are out of work or underemployed?

i doubt it. i would have liked to see the percentages of THAT survey!

just ANOTHER reason to ignore any polls other than the one on election day!

LOL - that is the way Rasmussen and Luntz word their surveys.

You should send an email to the Faux website and suggest the do a poll and ask the question the way you framed it. Better yet - go to Newt.org and send in a suggestion.

The way the Cons are squirming on this one - and Willard's inability to say anything even remotely coherent about immigration makes it obvious Willard has no chance with hispanics.

Originally Posted by coralway

LOL - that is the way Rasmussen and Luntz word their surveys.

You should send an email to the Faux website and suggest the do a poll and ask the question the way you framed it. Better yet - go to Newt.org and send in a suggestion.

The way the Cons are squirming on this one - and Willard's inability to say anything even remotely coherent about immigration makes it obvious Willard has no chance with hispanics.

i don't think the cons are squirming - they know better than to put faith in any poll other than the one on election day! if i look like i'm squirming it's because i'm just have'n fun laffin at the dems who actually believe the poll stuff and want others to believe it, too!

Originally Posted by coralway

LOL - that is the way Rasmussen and Luntz word their surveys.

You should send an email to the Faux website and suggest the do a poll and ask the question the way you framed it. Better yet - go to Newt.org and send in a suggestion.

The way the Cons are squirming on this one - and Willard's inability to say anything even remotely coherent about immigration makes it obvious Willard has no chance with hispanics.

It is pretty funny actually.....most news reports talk about the inherent problems with what he did with this stunt (See NPR) and how it will affect our own workforce...the kudos are coming for the most part from the hardcore left who would bow to the man if he dissolved the constitution (oh wait, he is doing that).

It was a GOOD political stunt...I will give him that. It gets him some voters from the hispanic community (at least those who can forget that he has deported more than any other president, although I applauded him for that) and perhaps some votes from the illegals. It was a political stunt and for that he gets an A. Policy wise it is quite immature, shallow and even if he wins in Nov it will go away and HE KNOWS THAT.

Now, I hate polls..always have and have said that a lot but did you not read my post where folks are really a bit disconcerted with this particular poll, as they should be...read the quotes on what was NOT asked. Makes no difference to me but if this makes you happy...be my guest. The posts that you guys have made on this thread are astoundingly false, out of context, and I will assume that was just an error on your part(s)