[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5YxkKvEUIU[/ame]





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Originally Posted by Muncle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5YxkKvEUIU





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You have to laugh but there is truth mixed in there!!!!!

Originally Posted by cabo35

"Any revolutionary change must be preceded by a passive, affirmative, non-challenging attitude toward change among the mass of our people. They must feel so frustrated, so defeated, so lost, so futureless in the prevailing system that they are willing to let go of the past and change the future." Saul Alinsky

Even though Bucco thinks Alinsky is the Darth Vader of political activism, he sure got a lot of things right, didn't he? Whether those that oppose him want to admit it or not, virtually all politicians use his Rules For Radicals in their campaigning and even in their conduct after being elected almost every day.

Aren't we seeing one, or even several, of these rules being used by our 'electeds' in almost every soundbite or interview they produce? President Obama got elected using the Rules, even though John McCain used them too. Now the GOP is trying to use them to reverse the political tide. Check the Rules out once more and see if that's not right. http://vcn.bc.ca/citizens-handbook/rules.html

Why might Alibnsky's rules be so popular? Appealing to our emotions moreso than our intellect, do you think? It's sure easier to get a response that way. There's no doubt that the Rules work. No one has to even think.

For one, I'm trying as hard as I can to resist being manipulated.

Somewhere down the road as the Democratic party and our second son of God, our savior Mr. Obama, secures control of every facet of our personal lives, watch for attacks on our constitution namely freedom of speech (shutting up all verbal opposition) and making guns totally illegal. Freedom of religion will be out of the question. Does this remind you of any other form of governments in this world.?
I wonder if should coin a new word called Muslinism?
Mock me if you will, I fear for my offspring and their offspring and only hope I die before I am forrced to attend a Mosque on Sundays

Originally Posted by SteveZ

Something fishy,eh? Well, I guess we're supposed to accept HR 3200 just "for the halibut!"

Cute!

For one, I'm trying as hard as I can to resist being manipulated.

Vk So aren't the majority of Americans. There is a real fear out there. People may have looked at Jimmy Carter as incompetent and maybe were angry at him whether the situation was his fault or not, but they didn't fear him. I'm sorry if I offended anyone with the Carter comparison. I think deep down... he was a good man.

This is an article and not a news source.
http://www.gopusa.com/theloft/?p=1794

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

Why might Alibnsky's rules be so popular? Appealing to our emotions moreso than our intellect, do you think? It's sure easier to get a response that way. There's no doubt that the Rules work. No one has to even think.

For one, I'm trying as hard as I can to resist being manipulated.

Sometimes its hard to engage in debate when the premise of the argument keeps shifting. Your first argument seemed to suggest that we "passively" disengage from confrontation and debate and, spend "our time trying to understand what those folks who were elected are planning to do re: healthcare than crafting zingers against some of the "electeds" as well as ourselves?" The second argument suggests resistance to manipulation. Alinsky was the master of manipulation. Further, I don't believe emotion, passion and intellect are mutually exclusive.

The rules you seem to embrace may have worked well at another time in history. It is my opinion that quantum advances in communications technology will alter the dynamics. In time, those rules will be viewed as nothing more than shadows in history and but a footnote in the metamorphosis of governing. I am hopeful that the masses, by actively engaging in the debate and not sitting on the sidelines, will help our country get it right.

The "passive, non-challenging" tone of the post is further affirmed by, [I]"The 435 are there and they're going to do what they're going to do, at least until January, 2011. Wouldn't we all be better off trying to figure out what they're doing and why?" [/I] These words seem to reveal an acceptance of defeat and what destiny, Congress and Obama have in store for us. In the words of my favorite Roosevelt, please don't count me with "those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.” I'm for victory.

The difference between us is that I'm not ready to throw in the towel and passively let ideologues from either side of the aisle use Alinskyesque manipulation including the perpetuation of lies, to achieve political reform. I'm not ready to abdicate the decision making process for my right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to the government. I'm not ready to accept what the government has planned for me and my family by being polite, politically correct and passive. You cannot resist manipulation and distraction with passive acceptance and hope for change. But.....that's just me.

Yes, I've written letters to more than a few of the 435.

Thanks for the exercise.

I'm not ready to abdicate the decision making process for my right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to the government. I'm not ready to accept what the government has planned for me and my family by being polite, politically correct and passive. You cannot resist manipulation and distraction with passive acceptance and hope for change. But.....that's just me.

Very well said. Have you ever wondered what happened to the fire in the belly of average Americans. That fire that inspired millions of ordinary people who traded the farm plow for a rifle to go over seas and fight oppression in the 1940's.What did they have that is lacking today?

When I heard this on the news this morning - The White House wants you to send them 'fishy' emails about the Healthcare Bill, along with the senders name - it brought to mind something from my high school history class (I'm only 52 yrs old). Hitler had his Hitler Youth Movement nark on family, friends, and neighbors who were against him. Maybe I'm being harsh here, but come on now. What happened to freedom of speech? Your right to choose what is right or wrong? Does the White House think that the American people are so STUPID that we need someone to hold our hand and tell us what to think?

We have sent an email to the White House giving them our name, address, phone, and email telling them to go ahead and start a file on us. God help them if they try anything on us, we'll have the US Government in court so fast it'll turn their head. For anyone who wants to do the same, it's: flag@whitehouse.gov

My husband and I figure that if enough people send them an email saying something similiar - they will stop it because it'll bring down the system. Having worked for MCI Conferencing I know that the servers can only handle so many emails/calls before it jams up the server.

As a disabled woman, who is going to be in the age bracket that is going to be under the microscope I look at passing the bill as it stands as a DEATH SENTENCE for me. I'm in the procress of increasing my life insurance so my husband will be taken care of.

Originally Posted by cabo35

...I don't believe emotion, passion and intellect are mutually exclusive....The rules you seem to embrace may have worked well at another time in history....It is my opinion that quantum advances in communications technology will alter the dynamics.....I am hopeful that the masses, by actively engaging in the debate and not sitting on the sidelines, will help our country get it right....These words seem to reveal an acceptance of defeat and what destiny....The difference between us is that I'm not ready to throw in the towel....

Several 'yes's' and 'no's' in response to your post.

I think you're right--that passion, emotion and intellect aren't mutually exclusive. Where things get sideways is when 'intellect' is removed from the equation. That's how the politicians and their political advisors try to 'manage' the electorate--by avoiding a discussion of the facts and appealing always to the emotions of Americans. All I would say is that we should remain committed to being thoughtful about what is being said, seeking more information, and trying to avoid being emotionally manipulated.

I don't embrace Alinsky's Rules at all. But if I were a political advisor, I would definitely tell my client to use the Rules and I would create the sound bites and examples consistent with the Rules for my client to use. They worked in the 1930's and they work today. Virtually all politicians and candidates from both parties are using them. Basically, they're simple human psychology.

I disagree that communications technology will alter the effectiveness of Alinsky's Rules. Because of the ability to communicate so effectively and so quickly and in so many different ways, along with the 24-hour news cycle, the Rules may be even more effective than in the past.

I hope the electorate remains engaged and active as you do. The only reason I take the time to post in the forum isn't for the few people who active post, but rather the "lurkers" who I know are reading this stuff. If I can make my points with them, it would be worth the time and effort.

Like you, I am far, far from 'accepting defeat' and 'throwing in the towel'. I have said many times that what's needed is to replace the 435. But, other than writing to those elected to represent me and trying to convince the people who read these posts that they should really think about who they will vote for in future elections, I realize there is little I can do between now and November, 2010. That's far from lying back and accepting whatever comes down the road.

Originally Posted by Keedy

Cabo, you just awakened something that I have been pondering for awhile. Your quote about letting go of the past is very interesting. It probably starts in our school system as they are teaching the young a version of history that is quite different then we were taught.
The culture of today is vastly different. The difference from right and wrong is more blurry today. Political correctness has stiffled real thought in this country. People must think twice before offending anybody. The moral compass is tilted.
What do our children learn in school. What passes for entertainment on our televisions that children watch daily and whose parents are too busy to supervise. The moral code of ethics is practically non-existing as children can watch adult entertainment at will.
Think of the television fare that the boomers were subjected to. Wagon Train always had good drama about right and wrong. Westerns always taught us about respect and moral issues. Kids now watch shows about sex and depravity and the line between right and wrong is very blurred. Patriotism is viewed with a distant quaintness and not thought of as a good quality.
The thing is...if you forget where you came from...how are you going to not make mistakes. History repeats itself...if you don't learn from it you will be doomed. Patriotism, freedom, individual rights are the backbone of this country.....are we turning into a bunch of fools???

Careful Keedy, the lurkers will turn you in to the Obama "Snitch" squad at the White House. Can you believe a government that wants Americans to inform on other Americans who don't buy into the Obama agenda? Further, with unprecedented contempt for American history and those patriots who sacrificed for liberty and freedom, the people presently populating 1600 Pennsylvania have the audacity to have the "stool pigeons" email the White House directly at flag@whitehouse.gov I can see the tears of disbelief in the eyes of George Washington, Abe Lincoln, JFK and other caretakers of the People's House.

I wonder if there is a clandestine Black Ops Czar that's compiling a list of dissidents. Funny, I never thought of myself as a dissident before.

Damn....I think I hear those black helicopters again.

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

Even though Bucco thinks Alinsky is the Darth Vader of political activism, he sure got a lot of things right, didn't he? Whether those that oppose him want to admit it or not, virtually all politicians use his Rules For Radicals in their campaigning and even in their conduct after being elected almost every day.

Aren't we seeing one, or even several, of these rules being used by our 'electeds' in almost every soundbite or interview they produce? President Obama got elected using the Rules, even though John McCain used them too. Now the GOP is trying to use them to reverse the political tide. Check the Rules out once more and see if that's not right. http://vcn.bc.ca/citizens-handbook/rules.html

Why might Alibnsky's rules be so popular? Appealing to our emotions moreso than our intellect, do you think? It's sure easier to get a response that way. There's no doubt that the Rules work. No one has to even think.

For one, I'm trying as hard as I can to resist being manipulated.

Since you mentioned me and while correct in a sense, a bit melodramatic !!

I believe to my core that our President was not simply aligned with Alinsky's Rules for Radicals but the ambitions that accompany them and there is a difference between that thrust and whatever of them are used by other politicians.

Secondly, not only was he aligned with the core and ambitions of Alinsky, ALL....I mean EVERY SINGLE BIT OF TRAINING HE RECEIVED was/is steeped in very extreme radicalism of some kind, not JUST Alinsky. The only time he served in any capactity without the extreme radical influence being the largest part of his life was MAYBE the 5 months, which by the way is the TOTAL, he served in congress.

It is not simply Alinsky's influence by itself...you called me (and Ben Stein) in another post which you said was very poorly researched by Stein and it concerned his Harvard years. I invite you to PLEASE read about his election there and the environment at the time at Harvard...the racial tensions which served him well, and then try to find out anything about his time there, like his grades, etc....you cant !!! The President will not allow that to be released to the public !

Sorry for the rant (it has been awhile) and I am trying hard to behave myself and not be confrontational, but this is what I felt before Iowa, and I have not changed one iota, in fact it has been reinforced.

It is not simply the shoving of a "stimulus" bill down our throats after saying he will NEVER sign a bill with "pork" and then to find out it was filled with it and was signed even though he knew nobody read it. It is the continual assault on everything...the total package. You may have forgotten the stimulus bill and the stuff that has happened but it is part of the package and to me not a surprising package at all.

You can ignore as you seem to his background...I cannot...and I will repeat what I said during the election...I will come on here and apologize daily if I am wrong, but I am NOT wrong. We are being totally ovewhelmed with EVERYTHING he said would NEVER happen....politics heavier than it has ever been....no transparency....and the list is endless and you and others still buy into this thing.

I am terrified for my country....there is nothing we can do. He will get a health bill because it is all political...does not matter what is in it..he does not care what is in it !

Originally Posted by cabo35

Careful Keedy, the lurkers will turn you in to the Obama "Snitch" squad at the White House. Can you believe a government that wants Americans to inform on other Americans who don't buy into the Obama agenda? Further, with unprecedented contempt for American history and those patriots who sacrificed for liberty and freedom, the people presently populating 1600 Pennsylvania have the audacity to have the "stool pigeons" email the White House directly at flag@whitehouse.gov I can see the tears of disbelief in the eyes of George Washington, Abe Lincoln, JFK and other caretakers of the People's House.

I wonder if there is a clandestine Black Ops Czar that's compiling a list of dissidents. Funny, I never thought of myself as a dissident before.

Damn....I think I hear those black helicopters again.

My name is probably on the top of the "snitch List" . Remember those playing cards and we had a terrorist for every one in the deck? My picture is probably on the "Ace of Spades"....on the snitch deck.
Opppsssss Gotta go now...I think I hear those black helicopters circling around again....

It is painfully clear.... Obama has picked the wrong fight. I figured he'd go down in 4 years.... but not 6 months. You have to wonder.... what's going through his mind now as he lays his head on his pillow each night and sees his numbers collapsing.