Originally Posted by Karen83

Cologal,

I would have been glad to opt out of the government taxing me all of my life for social security and would be much weathier today if I had that option. BUT, I didn't have that option and I will never recieve all that I put in had I been able to invest it myself. I wish our government representatives had to be a part of this scam.

I understand your statement but no one can really say that. Mainly because no one knows how long each of us will live. The other thing is the stock market itself. While some people make a killing other just get killed. Or kill themselves.

Last year when I bought my winter home in TV I had enough money in one account to pay off both mortgages. My advisor told me NOT to take any out for the downpayment.....leave it in it will grow. Trust me it didn't grow.

I also believe there was a study and I will look for it. 2 states compared traditional retirements vs 401k plan retirements. The traditional ones fared better than the 401k plans.

The American system of government works like this....2 people, or more, run for President...we all vote. Once the guy who won the popular vote lost. We had to live with Bush...now you have to live with Obama. He won the election by a wide margin..It is what it is.

Winning an election does not turn someone into a 4-year monarch. Actually, I have fewer problems with Mr. Obama as I do with Ms. Pelosi and Mr. Reid who have turned Congress into the largest rubber-stamp in history. Sorry, the concept of not reading a bill before voting on it is atrocious. It's like an individual signing a contract with a $1Million obligation and not knowing the terms and conditions. In this case the congresspersons, as our agents, are signing contracts by virtue of their votes with no knowledge or care about the content. Does anyone believe that's the proper conduct for their agent?

Originally Posted by cologal

I understand your statement but no one can really say that. Mainly because no one knows how long each of us will live. The other thing is the stock market itself. While some people make a killing other just get killed. Or kill themselves.

Last year when I bought my winter home in TV I had enough money in one account to pay off both mortgages. My advisor told me NOT to take any out for the downpayment.....leave it in it will grow. Trust me it didn't grow.

I also believe there was a study and I will look for it. 2 states compared traditional retirements vs 401k plan retirements. The traditional ones fared better than the 401k plans.

I agree that the stock market is akin to a casino. That's the nature of the place. "Investment counselors" are basically "gambling advisers." You can find comparable folk hanging around every OTB parlor - the game is just different!

As far as Social Security is concerned, the main problem with it is that the fund has been raided, so now a Ponzi arrangement is necessary to meet obligations. When that happens with private plans, folk go to jail. Here, we just reward Congresspersons with more terms in office.

Originally Posted by Karen83

Cologal,

I would have been glad to opt out of the government taxing me all of my life for social security and would be much weathier today if I had that option. BUT, I didn't have that option and I will never recieve all that I put in had I been able to invest it myself. I wish our government representatives had to be a part of this scam.

Agree. I often hear that we take out more money then we put in over our lifetimes. Well, that might be the case if the money you put in just sat there and left to it's own means. But let's be honest here...if the money that I put into SS for the last 46 years was deposited into a simple savings account and allowed to accumulate compounded interest, I think, no I know, that I would be a very happy and secure fellow today.
But like Steve Z said, the money was raided. Without getting into all particulars, Johnson's war on poverty and Vietnam was the beginning and the end to my emotional well being.
I predict that there will be some sort of "means testing" to determine how much money, that you put in, that you will receive every month from Uncle Joe.

Originally Posted by SteveZ

Winning an election does not turn someone into a 4-year monarch. Actually, I have fewer problems with Mr. Obama as I do with Ms. Pelosi and Mr. Reid who have turned Congress into the largest rubber-stamp in history. Sorry, the concept of not reading a bill before voting on it is atrocious. It's like an individual signing a contract with a $1Million obligation and not knowing the terms and conditions. In this case the congresspersons, as our agents, are signing contracts by virtue of their votes with no knowledge or care about the content. Does anyone believe that's the proper conduct for their agent?


I agree that the stock market is akin to a casino. That's the nature of the place. "Investment counselors" are basically "gambling advisers." You can find comparable folk hanging around every OTB parlor - the game is just different!

As far as Social Security is concerned, the main problem with it is that the fund has been raided, so now a Ponzi arrangement is necessary to meet obligations. When that happens with private plans, folk go to jail. Here, we just reward Congresspersons with more terms in office.

I agree with much of what you posted. My point is that nothing has changed here. The Republicans, when in power, marched in lock step to pass bills, before reading them, and Bush didn't veto a thing until the Dems took over.

Here is a link on Nebraska throwing out their 401K retirement plan after 19 years because it didn't perform as expected.

http://www.thestreet.com/funds/belowradar/10021041.htm

I have heard many times how much better will all would have done had we invested it ourselves. It is simply not true. The only people who have made out...over time are the guys that churn the accounts. Its the fees

Originally Posted by cologal

I agree with much of what you posted. My point is that nothing has changed here. The Republicans, when in power, marched in lock step to pass bills, before reading them, and Bush didn't veto a thing until the Dems took over.

Here is a link on Nebraska throwing out their 401K retirement plan after 19 years because it didn't perform as expected.

http://www.thestreet.com/funds/belowradar/10021041.htm

I have heard many times how much better will all would have done had we invested it ourselves. It is simply not true. The only people who have made out...over time are the guys that churn the accounts. Its the fees

Then do we continue to accept this "status quo" of our agents not fulfilling their responsibilities to us and instead answering to party hierarchy, or do we throw the bums out during the next election?

This is not a Dem or Rep issue. I don't care if the sorry incumbent is tossed during the primary or the November election. A clean sweep is needed. Those who act as if "the Party is father, the Party is mother' can continue to do so - just get rid of the multi-term slug who two-faces you at campaign time when in fact they only see themselves as representing the RNC or DNC instead of the voters. There surely is someone in your party whose ideals and ethics are to the voters and not the party gods.

From STEVEZ...

"Winning an election does not turn someone into a 4-year monarch. Actually, I have fewer problems with Mr. Obama as I do with Ms. Pelosi and Mr. Reid who have turned Congress into the largest rubber-stamp in history. Sorry, the concept of not reading a bill before voting on it is atrocious. It's like an individual signing a contract with a $1Million obligation and not knowing the terms and conditions. In this case the congresspersons, as our agents, are signing contracts by virtue of their votes with no knowledge or care about the content. Does anyone believe that's the proper conduct for their agent?"


Steve and this is more aimed at folks like COLOGAL and others who think that posts are either anti Democratic or Pro Republican.......

I said during the campaign on a number of occassions that while I opposed the election of Obama, my passion was based on the current congress that he had to work with. It is the perfect storm for sure.

Bucco....

You cannot, with a straight face, tell me that you are not pro-republican.

Are you smoking some funny weed maybe?

This is the laugh of the day. Or maybe the week, month or year.

Originally Posted by SteveZ

Then do we continue to accept this "status quo" of our agents not fulfilling their responsibilities to us and instead answering to party hierarchy, or do we throw the bums out during the next election?

This is not a Dem or Rep issue. I don't care if the sorry incumbent is tossed during the primary or the November election. A clean sweep is needed. Those who act as if "the Party is father, the Party is mother' can continue to do so - just get rid of the multi-term slug who two-faces you at campaign time when in fact they only see themselves as representing the RNC or DNC instead of the voters. There surely is someone in your party whose ideals and ethics are to the voters and not the party gods.

Ok lets talk turkey....My representative, from Colorado Springs, is a Republican. God himself could run but if he had a D behind is name he would lose. This guy doesn't have to run, debate anything to get elected. He has a job for life. The funny thing is even the Repubs didn't want him but he won the primary and there you have it.

My issue is with the hypocritical nature of politics...not you...politics. Eight years ago my people were stunned with the turn of events. Whenever, and this is personal experience, we said anything about Bush we got. But he is the President and Commander and Chief he deserves respect. It only got worse after Iraq. Protesting against the war was a blood sport....

Now look at what people say here in this forum? All kinds of claims...this thread is how Obama is killing the American Dream. Where is the respect for the President now? So someone will reply....you all hated Bush so its ok.

Hypocrites....it will never end.

Originally Posted by cologal

Bucco....

You cannot, with a straight face, tell me that you are not pro-republican.

Are you smoking some funny weed maybe?

This is the laugh of the day. Or maybe the week, month or year.

TODAY, AT THIS MOMENT....yep you are correct !!! BUT...NO MATTER...

My country is first...just so happens that since this political forum has existed we have had THIS congress and THIS President either in the primary or general election.

And as to your smart#$% sarcasm...dont smoke !

Originally Posted by cologal

So you don't believe in globel warming....do you value your lungs? Soot

Is this your idea or either an intelligent or factual response? As I have said repeatedly in the forum, I believe that so-called anthropogenic global warming is a hoax. You choose to believe in anthropogenic global warming - that is your right. You may also choose to believe in The Easter Bunny - that is also your right. You have shown equal factual support for both of these beliefs. Again, your right.

What is not your right is to help yourself to my money without demonstrating clear factual need for me to give up what is mine. It remains your right to support the so call 'global warming initiatives.' The easiest and most effective means to do so is to turn off your electricity. If you are unwilling to go this far than at least turn off you AC, unplug your televisions and cancel all your subscriptions. Do a reverse Al Gore and back your beliefs with actions that demonstrate commitment and conviction. Until you choose action, then you remain all talk.

Originally Posted by cologal

Bucco....

You cannot, with a straight face, tell me that you are not pro-republican.

Are you smoking some funny weed maybe?

This is the laugh of the day. Or maybe the week, month or year.

There have been many laughs of the year but their not from Bucco. I am a conservative but I only voted for Bush because I abhorred Gore and Kerry. You democrats never take responsibility. By that, I mean that you never come up with a good candidate and then you bitch because yours got defeated. The real people in America could not relate to the Dukakis's, Gore's and Kerry's you guys put up there to run.
Don't you think that people would be protesting if Bush decided he wanted to re-shape the USA into some kind socialist France?
As for your remark about Bush not using his veto pen...you have not been listening. True conservatives have been livid about him not using the veto pen. Also, conservatives didn't like the idea of utilizing our military protecting Iraq's borders while ignoring the illegals crossing our own borders.
There...I feel much better now, thank-you.

Originally Posted by BBQMan

Is this your idea or either an intelligent or factual response? As I have said repeatedly in the forum, I believe that so-called anthropogenic global warming is a hoax. You choose to believe in anthropogenic global warming - that is your right. You may also choose to believe in The Easter Bunny - that is also your right. You have shown equal factual support for both of these beliefs. Again, your right.

What is not your right is to help yourself to my money without demonstrating clear factual need for me to give up what is mine. It remains your right to support the so call 'global warming initiatives.' The easiest and most effective means to do so is to turn off your electricity. If you are unwilling to go this far than at least turn off you AC, unplug your televisions and cancel all your subscriptions. Do a reverse Al Gore and back your beliefs with actions that demonstrate commitment and conviction. Until you choose action, then you remain all talk.

I haven't taken any of your money....you don't believe in global warming and that is your right.

Coal plants put out soot you can see it. Soot harms the lungs.

Originally Posted by Bucco

TODAY, AT THIS MOMENT....yep you are correct !!! BUT...NO MATTER...

My country is first...just so happens that since this political forum has existed we have had THIS congress and THIS President either in the primary or general election.

And as to your smart#$% sarcasm...dont smoke !

Brownies?

Originally Posted by cologal

Brownies?

OMG I cannot believe you, of all people, are accusing other people of taking drugs.

Originally Posted by Keedy

OMG I cannot believe you, of all people, are accusing other people of taking drugs.

You got to laugh sometimes....just having fun.