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Ohio Sends Koch Bros a Message

 
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  #31  
Old 11-09-2011, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by njbchbum View Post
katzpajamas -
well, my limited knowledge of budgeting sees that the private sector meets its budget because it can quickly and efficiently raise the price for their product. but in the private sector, there will come a point where the public will no longer pay the price for the product and the private employer can reduce the quality/quantity of their product; or it can adjust quickly and efficiently and reduce their operating costs, usually through staff reductions. in the case of the latter, the govt will then pick up the increased cost to support the unemployed worker...and the private sector corporate leader will still be employed.

well, the govt never anticipated the need to support those unemployed private sector workers, so where will the money to do that come from. the govt will have to increase their revenue sources by raising taxes, fees, fines, penalties, etc. since the govt has no product to sell. the government parties who choose to raise their "prices" risk not being the government come the next election!

if you have been following politics of late, can you point to anyone in the public sector who is relaxed about the economy?
In a nut shell I can see the attitude of the public "servants". Public servants do not contribute to the economy, they can only take from the economy. They live off of private sector money like parasites. They are wealth distribution galore.
  #32  
Old 11-09-2011, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Loveithere View Post
I cannot believe that someone would have the gaul to ask such a question. Government hacks are not better then SS people. Most Americans are SS recipients. Government employees should never receive more then the people they are working for, which is private sector people who pay the servants to work for them. Government employees live in a Alice in Wonderland fantasy world where the taxpayers are working for the government employees. Government employees are bankrupting America. They are the new ELITE!!!!
Exactly!

Another problem in this fantasy world is that unionized government employees refuse to face the fact that they work for a "NON-PROFIT" organization that produces no revenue much less a profit margin, as private sector union employees do for Ford, Caterpillar, etc.

"Milton Friedman argued that government agencies resemble economic "black holes" where increased 'inputs' lead to declining 'outputs. 'Economist Thomas DiLorenzo has argued that:

'The enormous power of government-employee unions effectively transfers the power to tax from voters to the unions. Because government-employee unions can so easily force elected officials to raise taxes to meet their "demands," it is they, not the voters, who control the rate of taxation within a political jurisdiction. They are the beneficiaries of a particular form of taxation without representation (not that taxation with representation is much better). This is why some states have laws prohibiting strikes by government-employee unions. (The unions often strike anyway.)

Politicians are caught in a political bind by government-employee unions: if they cave in to their wage demands and raise taxes to finance them, then they increase the chances of being kicked out of office themselves in the next election. The "solution" to this dilemma has been to offer government-employee unions moderate wage increases but spectacular pension promises. This allows politicians to pander to the unions but defer the costs to the future, long after the panderers are retired from politics."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-sector_trade_union
  #33  
Old 11-09-2011, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by njbchbum View Post
katzpajamas -
well, my limited knowledge of budgeting sees that the private sector meets its budget because it can quickly and efficiently raise the price for their product. but in the private sector, there will come a point where the public will no longer pay the price for the product and the private employer can reduce the quality/quantity of their product; or it can adjust quickly and efficiently and reduce their operating costs, usually through staff reductions. in the case of the latter, the govt will then pick up the increased cost to support the unemployed worker...and the private sector corporate leader will still be employed.

well, the govt never anticipated the need to support those unemployed private sector workers, so where will the money to do that come from. the govt will have to increase their revenue sources by raising taxes, fees, fines, penalties, etc. since the govt has no product to sell. the government parties who choose to raise their "prices" risk not being the government come the next election!

if you have been following politics of late, can you point to anyone in the public sector who is relaxed about the economy?
Adjusting price isn't that easy. Out price your product and no one buys. There are still ethical companies who won't stoop to price gouging.
Unemployment? Unemployment insurance premiums are paid for by the employer. 99% of the time, their employees will never collect. (present state of the economy due to bailouts and other ridiculous WH BS not included)
Bailouts? These should have never happened in the first place. Why did the government bail out these big companies in the first place. Without bailouts, the CEO's would have had to make some major adjustments in order to keep their business afloat. But if Uncle Sam is willing to pay the price to guarantee their bonus, hey whatever. These guys didn't get to the top without some brains on how to get ahead. As for the housing bubble, that was created by government! Dems wanted everyone to have a home and banks were pressured into giving loans to extremely risky clients! It was all set up to happen this way so government can step in and save the day...aka gain more power.
Who in the public sector is relaxed? Define relaxed...need to know because I know a few private sector companies who are doing just fine. They are smart enough to keep their finger on the pulse of their company and make necessary minor adjustments, thus avoiding drastic major ones, do more with less...
1-http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/24/bu...my/24econ.html
2-http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...011/employers/
3-http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=ups
  #34  
Old 11-09-2011, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Loveithere View Post
I cannot believe that someone would have the gaul to ask such a question. Government hacks are not better then SS people. Most Americans are SS recipients. Government employees should never receive more then the people they are working for, which is private sector people who pay the servants to work for them. Government employees live in a Alice in Wonderland fantasy world where the taxpayers are working for the government employees. Government employees are bankrupting America. They are the new ELITE!!!!
loveithere -
it did not take any gaul to ask the question. i just wanted to know what would possess you to make such a statement.

why do you demean the govt employee by calling them a hack; especially when you have never met them and don't know them? you appear to be of the belief that the ss recipient is better than the government employee you refer to as a servant. that is quite a judgement! so i have to ask - who are you to judge?

most americans do, or at least will, collect ss. and thru the largess of elected officials, many of those americans who collect never contributed a cent to ss funds. they are draining the fund of your money and mine! lets put a stop to that! if an american is blind or disabled or a spouse who never contributed, let's cut their funding!


americans want and demand programs and services; and they want them provided by their government. so government has to design, develop and provide the programs and services the citizens want and demand. those citizens are the folks living in fantasy land because they have no real idea of the cost to provide what they want and demand. but they go on wanting and demanding and the government goes on providing.

government employees are not bankrupting america....americans wanting and demanding that their government take care of them is bankrupting america.

so lets stop wanting and demanding and government won't have to provide it.
  #35  
Old 11-09-2011, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by njbchbum View Post
loveithere -
it did not take any gaul to ask the question. i just wanted to know what would possess you to make such a statement.

why do you demean the govt employee by calling them a hack; especially when you have never met them and don't know them? you appear to be of the belief that the ss recipient is better than the government employee you refer to as a servant. that is quite a judgement! so i have to ask - who are you to judge?

most americans do, or at least will, collect ss. and thru the largess of elected officials, many of those americans who collect never contributed a cent to ss funds. they are draining the fund of your money and mine! lets put a stop to that! if an american is blind or disabled or a spouse who never contributed, let's cut their funding!


americans want and demand programs and services; and they want them provided by their government. so government has to design, develop and provide the programs and services the citizens want and demand. those citizens are the folks living in fantasy land because they have no real idea of the cost to provide what they want and demand. but they go on wanting and demanding and the government goes on providing.

government employees are not bankrupting america....americans wanting and demanding that their government take care of them is bankrupting america.

so lets stop wanting and demanding and government won't have to provide it.
I know government union employees, I work with them. after 30 years in the private sector, the mentality of these government union folks was a SHOCK to my system!
The lack of initiative, the lack of sense of urgency, the lack of going above and beyond just because it is the right thing to do, lack of pride, lack of the dignity that comes with taking it to the next level, lack of reimbursement based on performance, etc,etc,etc....how sad.
  #36  
Old 11-09-2011, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by KatzPajamas View Post
I know government union employees, I work with them. after 30 years in the private sector, the mentality of these government union folks was a SHOCK to my system!
The lack of initiative, the lack of sense of urgency, the lack of going above and beyond just because it is the right thing to do, lack of pride, lack of the dignity that comes with taking it to the next level, lack of reimbursement based on performance, etc,etc,etc....how sad.
And how about the way government union employees treat the "customer"--taxpayer....who gets out of work at 5pm or later, but the post office closes at 4:00 and there are no stamp machines in the lobby?

Or how about the last mail pickup for the day being at 10:00 a.m. at all the mailboxes in the middle of a huge office park....when the office workers are producing orders, correspondence, and checks for 7 more hours that need to go out in today's mail???
  #37  
Old 11-09-2011, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Loveithere View Post
In a nut shell I can see the attitude of the public "servants". Public servants do not contribute to the economy, they can only take from the economy. They live off of private sector money like parasites. They are wealth distribution galore.
HARDLY!!! public sector employees DO contribute to the economy every time they pay taxes as well as purchase goods and services from the private sector! and with the amount of private sector unemployment which is due to private sector corporate greed, the economy is fortunate to have public sector employees spending money!


the public sector employee creed:

“We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, with so little, for so long, we are now qualified to do anything, with nothing.”
  #38  
Old 11-09-2011, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by njbchbum View Post
HARDLY!!! public sector employees DO contribute to the economy every time they pay taxes as well as purchase goods and services from the private sector! and with the amount of private sector unemployment which is due to private sector corporate greed, the economy is fortunate to have public sector employees spending money!


the public sector employee creed:

We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, with so little, for so long, we are now qualified to do anything, with nothing.”
Nice creed!...but saying it doesn't make it fact. I hear similar comments daily from people who have never had to step up to the plate and get a hit out in the real world.
  #39  
Old 11-09-2011, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by njbchbum View Post
HARDLY!!! public sector employees DO contribute to the economy every time they pay taxes as well as purchase goods and services from the private sector! and with the amount of private sector unemployment which is due to private sector corporate greed, the economy is fortunate to have public sector employees spending money!


the public sector employee creed:

“We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, with so little, for so long, we are now qualified to do anything, with nothing.”

You're kidding, right?
  #40  
Old 11-09-2011, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by KatzPajamas View Post
Curious to know where you get your facts?
BUT At the state institution that I work for, the negotiations are between the HR department and the union representatives (also employees of our institution)...these people are all bascially co-workers! The negotiate over the use of the taxpayer's money...the same taxpayer who is not sitting in on these negotiations and therefore without a voice.
my info comes from n.j. state law...the new jersey employer-employee relations act...and the public employee relations committee.

in n.j. the employees of all state depts. agencies and commissions are governed by contracts which are negotiated between the individual unions and the team of negotiators under the auspice of the office of the gov.

no h.r. dept would ever be permitted to negotiate a contract in this state! h.r. depts work with union shop stewards to insure that all parties follow contract provisions.

how many unions and contracts exist in your state institution?
  #41  
Old 11-09-2011, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ilovetv View Post
you're kidding, right?
hardly!
  #42  
Old 11-09-2011, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ilovetv View Post
You're kidding, right?
ilovetv~ There are those who have never played outside the protective boundaries of the playground fence. Maybe, others should be kind enough to not wake them from their perception of reality.
  #43  
Old 11-09-2011, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by njbchbum View Post
my info comes from n.j. state law...the new jersey employer-employee relations act...and the public employee relations committee.

in n.j. the employees of all state depts. agencies and commissions are governed by contracts which are negotiated between the individual unions and the team of negotiators under the auspice of the office of the gov.no h.r. dept would ever be permitted to negotiate a contract in this state! h.r. depts work with union shop stewards to insure that all parties follow contract provisions.

how many unions and contracts exist in your state institution?
How many unions and contracts in my state institution? 1

Do yourself a favor...check out who can operate as negotiator under the auspice of the office of the governor.
Pretty sure that could quite possibly be the office of Human Resources Labor relations people of a given state institution...
  #44  
Old 11-09-2011, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by njbchbum View Post
HARDLY!!! public sector employees DO contribute to the economy every time they pay taxes as well as purchase goods and services from the private sector! and with the amount of private sector unemployment which is due to private sector corporate greed, the economy is fortunate to have public sector employees spending money!


the public sector employee creed:

“We the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, with so little, for so long, we are now qualified to do anything, with nothing.”
All the public employees spending money is another form of wealth distribution. Government employees are no better then welfare recipients. They just spend taxpayers money. Just like Obama's failed stimulus hoax. Just wealth redistribution. When are people going to understand that public employees are a hindrance on the economy. Small efficient government is the answer. 75% of public servants should be laid off, immediately.
  #45  
Old 11-09-2011, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by KatzPajamas View Post
How many unions and contracts in my state institution? 1

Do yourself a favor...check out who can operate as negotiator under the auspice of the office of the governor.
Pretty sure that could quite possibly be the office of Human Resources Labor relations people of a given state institution...
katz - don't have to check it out...i know it is not...i was h.r./labor relations in the office of the state attorney general!
 


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