Originally Posted by Don Baldwin

Isn't it nuts? I can see being a Protestant...but a Catholic? Them boys are crazy! Some of the sh!t they believe and do. The Catholic Church may be the richest organization on the planet...and yet every Sunday they're begging for more.



I don't trust the judgment of the highly religious...what else do they blindly believe?

My wife is Lutheran. I fu ck with her all the time. Her guy started this whole mess. If Luther wasn't such a malcontent you wouldn't have those idiots dancing with venomous snakes. We'd still all be Catholics and the universe of faithful as we know it would be as one.

Originally Posted by mellincf

Seriously, a "foreign" language? The language was universally understood by all, everywhere in the world. But you remind me of the old saw: A trilingual person speaks 3 languages, a bilingual person speaks 2 languages, and an American only can handle one language.

You quoted the wrong guy. *see Don Baldwin.

Originally Posted by Guest

Well, I had decided not to respond to the original post by Wiotte because an article in the Los Angeles Times is so obviously prejudiced. But after I saw Rubicon's response I decided to chime in in support.

The allegation that "White Evangelicals" are racist is so ludicrous that it hardly seems worthy of bothering to refute it. One only needs to point to the self-sacrifice of millions of White missionaries to Africa, China, and South America for over a century, and nothing more really needs to be said.

Missionaries whose sole motivation was to introduce others to the love of Christ, at the cost of personal comfort, disease, and even death, are truly maligned by accusations of racism.

Several years ago my home church "adopted" a village in western Africa and periodically sends teams of lay people to assist in improving the living conditions in that village. Our congregation has funded digging several fresh water wells to provide people with safe, sanitary, drinking water.

A while back my church promoted the purchase of efficient wood burning stoves for people in outlying areas of South America who were still cooking over open fires. I am not blowing my own horn when I say that I personally funded the full cost of one of those stoves.

This whole "White Christians are racists" theme is just another Liberal attack on Conservatives of every type. The writers make fools of themselves in attributing motives to Christians that are transparently false.

Carl in Tampa

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Bull****. The only reason your church or any evangelical goes abroad is to continue the systematic brain washing that religious cults need to expand and survive. You go where education is minimum and people are most vulnerable. If you really want to do good work, volunteer locally. With no payback. Keep your beliefs to yourself.

Originally Posted by Guest

Don Baldwin

That's EXACTLY WHY they didn't want them reading the Bible...or even KNOW what they were saying! Everything was kept in Latin SPECIFICALLY to CONTROL what the congregation heard...and therefore believed. Why allow them to question the official party line?

I can't believe someone would be in a "religion" where everything was in a foreign language. You couldn't read the books, you didn't understand what the priests were chanting. ALL you had was what they told you it said/they were saying. Unbelievable what "intelligent" people will do/believe.

Edit:

A reason the Protestants..."protestors"...left and formed their own churches...they didn't agree with the party line that didn't agree with their "interpretation". So now we have over 5,000 different Christian sects.

There is a lot of history to be understood in order to comprehend the reach of the Catholic Church. Mainly, remember that as the Church flourished in Europe, the Catholics practiced infant baptism, so virtually everyone thought of themselves as Christian, no matter how little instruction they had received.

They were also almost all illiterate. The educated were Roman Citizens, so the language was Latin, which became the language of the priesthood. So, wherever a Church was established, the service was in Latin. The change to allow Catholic Mass to be observed in local languages has occurred in my lifetime. So, you see, the use of Latin in church was perhaps less sinister than you might think.

Martin Luther's break with the Catholic Church was triggered by the sale of Papal "indulgences" which were sort of "get out of purgatory free" cards. He challenged the concept, as well as being saved by good works. His great awakening was reading the scripture that said "The Just shall live by faith."

It is noteworthy that although Luther is credited as leading the Protestant Revolution, there was another group that already opposed the Catholic Church. It was a group called Anabaptists (Re-baptizers.) They rejected infant baptism and insisted that a Christian should be baptized when he had attained the maturity to make his own decision about becoming a Christian. To his discredit, Luther approved of burning Anabaptists at the stake.

I am a Baptist. One who believes that baptism should be after committing to be a Christian.

Carl in Tampa

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Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa

There is a lot of history to be understood in order to comprehend the reach of the Catholic Church. Mainly, remember that as the Church flourished in Europe, the Catholics practiced infant baptism, so virtually everyone thought of themselves as Christian, no matter how little instruction they had received.



They were also almost all illiterate. The educated were Roman Citizens, so the language was Latin, which became the language of the priesthood. So, wherever a Church was established, the service was in Latin. The change to allow Catholic Mass to be observed in local languages has occurred in my lifetime. So, you see, the use of Latin in church was perhaps less sinister than you might think.



Martin Luther's break with the Catholic Church was triggered by the sale of Papal "indulgences" which were sort of "get out of purgatory free" cards. He challenged the concept, as well as being saved by good works. His great awakening was reading the scripture that said "The Just shall live by faith."



It is noteworthy that although Luther is credited as leading the Protestant Revolution, there was another group that already opposed the Catholic Church. It was a group called Anabaptists (Re-baptizers.) They rejected infant baptism and insisted that a Christian should be baptized when he had attained the maturity to make his own decision about becoming a Christian. To his discredit, Luther approved of burning Anabaptists at the stake.



I am a Baptist. One who believes that baptism should be after committing to be a Christian.



Carl in Tampa



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The sacrament of Confirmation covers that problem.

Originally Posted by Guest

Well first remember that neither Paul, nor any of the writers of the Gospels, ever met the historical Jesus, so all of the Gospels are just hearsay. The oldest Gospel in the Bible is the Gospel of John, written no less than 85 years after the historical Jesus was dead. And anyway Paul was an old misogynist. Does your wife cover her head with a hijab, or are you forced to shave her bald? (1 Corinthians 11:6).

Xtians treating the bible like a smorgasbord. Picking out only the parts they find taste good. Blinded by brainwashing. Convinced by connivers. Shafted by shysters.

Originally Posted by Island57

Xtians treating the bible like a smorgasbord. Picking out only the parts they find taste good. Blinded by brainwashing. Convinced by connivers. Shafted by shysters.

Now, tell us how you really feel. Is it really that hard to type "Chris" rather than an X ?

Originally Posted by Guest

mellincf

Well first remember that neither Paul, nor any of the writers of the Gospels, ever met the historical Jesus, so all of the Gospels are just hearsay. The oldest Gospel in the Bible is the Gospel of John, written no less than 85 years after the historical Jesus was dead. And anyway Paul was an old misogynist. Does your wife cover her head with a hijab, or are you forced to shave her bald? (1 Corinthians 11:6).

You sound like someone who gets his facts from Wikipedia, where anyone can go and edit the material.

This subject is too complex to debate in a forum format. The content can easily take an entire semester in college to study and discuss.

Besides which, your assertions do not prevent the belief that the books of the Bible were inspired by God.

Carl in Tampa


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Originally Posted by Guest

The sacrament of Confirmation covers that problem.

The difference being that a belief that infant baptism saves is incorrect.

And an insincere Confirmation is ineffective.

I wasn't arguing theology, but explaining why there was a time in Europe when everyone in the uneducated and illiterate masses considered themselves to be Christians.

Carl in Tampa

Originally Posted by Guest

Island57

Bull****. The only reason your church or any evangelical goes abroad is to continue the systematic brain washing that religious cults need to expand and survive. You go where education is minimum and people are most vulnerable. If you really want to do good work, volunteer locally. With no payback. Keep your beliefs to yourself.

Every Southern Baptist Church is an independent, autonomous, self-governing congregation, and Evangelical efforts do nothing to expand the local church.

Volunteer locally, with no payback?

Maybe you mean by establishing and financing a new congregation in a predominately Black neighborhood in Tampa, with a Black minister.

Or financially rescuing the only church on Davis Islands several years ago as it was being forced to close because it was so deep in debt.

Or, revitalizing another failing church in the Ballast Point area.

Or, establishing a Spanish language service church, using our facilities for their services.

Or, operating a mission church in Sulphur Springs where our pastor goes to preach a sermon every Sunday, after already preaching in our own facility twice that morning. This would be in the poorest section of the Springs, where our members visit the area and try to physically improve the living conditions of the residents.

And guess what. Our members also periodically go to the Sheriff's Office District III office and provide meals for the deputies. In the last few weeks we even went out and washed their patrol cars to express our appreciation for their service.

And today, this very moment, there are uncounted numbers of Southern Baptist Disaster Relief volunteers in Texas, providing thousands of hot meals every day to victims of the Hurricane and record rains that are pounding the area. Our volunteers are unpaid, and will never accept payment for what they do for the disaster victims.

Consider that perhaps you do not know whereof you speak.


Carl in Tampa

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Originally Posted by Guest

Well first remember that neither Paul, nor any of the writers of the Gospels, ever met the historical Jesus, so all of the Gospels are just hearsay. The oldest Gospel in the Bible is the Gospel of John, written no less than 85 years after the historical Jesus was dead. And anyway Paul was an old misogynist. Does your wife cover her head with a hijab, or are you forced to shave her bald? (1 Corinthians 11:6).

Hearsay that has been rewritten over and over. There are NO contemporary records/writings on Jesus. Christianity is PAUL.

Originally Posted by Guest

Seriously, a "foreign" language? The language was universally understood by all, everywhere in the world. But you remind me of the old saw: A trilingual person speaks 3 languages, a bilingual person speaks 2 languages, and an American only can handle one language.

Yes a foreign language...do you speak latin? Mass was in latin until quite recently.

Originally Posted by Guest

Xtians treating the bible like a smorgasbord. Picking out only the parts they find taste good. Blinded by brainwashing. Convinced by connivers. Shafted by shysters.

Relativism...it's why there are more than 5,000 sects. Each "interpreting" as they wish to interpret.

"I'll "save" you...for 10%.

There's a reason they start them off as infants...they have no defense and will believe it for life.

Originally Posted by Guest

You sound like someone who gets his facts from Wikipedia, where anyone can go and edit the material.

This subject is too complex to debate in a forum format. The content can easily take an entire semester in college to study and discuss.

Besides which, your assertions do not prevent the belief that the books of the Bible were inspired by God.

Carl in Tampa


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Oh come on Carl...any SERIOUS religious scholar knows all this. The Books attributed to John, Luke, Mathew...etc...are all anonymous, bits and pieces from various authors over the years. Whole books were deleted out of the Bible because they didn't conform to the "message" they wanted.

You REALLY believe the Bible is the "Word of God"? Literally?

They spend whole semesters studying OTHER works of fiction too.

Barnum was right...

Originally Posted by Don Baldwin

Hearsay that has been rewritten over and over. There are NO contemporary records/writings on Jesus. Christianity is PAUL.



Yes a foreign language...do you speak latin? Mass was in latin until quite recently.



Relativism...it's why there are more than 5,000 sects. Each "interpreting" as they wish to interpret.

"I'll "save" you...for 10%.

There's a reason they start them off as infants...they have no defense and will believe it for life.



Oh come on Carl...any SERIOUS religious scholar knows all this. The Books attributed to John, Luke, Mathew...etc...are all anonymous, bits and pieces from various authors over the years. Whole books were deleted out of the Bible because they didn't conform to the "message" they wanted.

You REALLY believe the Bible is the "Word of God"? Literally?

They spend whole semesters studying OTHER works of fiction too.

Barnum was right...

This guy is contemporary and PT Barnum would like.


Anton LaVey - Wikipedia

Originally Posted by Don Baldwin

Hearsay that has been rewritten over and over. There are NO contemporary records/writings on Jesus. Christianity is PAUL.



Yes a foreign language...do you speak latin? Mass was in latin until quite recently.



Relativism...it's why there are more than 5,000 sects. Each "interpreting" as they wish to interpret.

"I'll "save" you...for 10%.

There's a reason they start them off as infants...they have no defense and will believe it for life.



Oh come on Carl...any SERIOUS religious scholar knows all this. The Books attributed to John, Luke, Mathew...etc...are all anonymous, bits and pieces from various authors over the years. Whole books were deleted out of the Bible because they didn't conform to the "message" they wanted.

You REALLY believe the Bible is the "Word of God"? Literally?

They spend whole semesters studying OTHER works of fiction too.

Barnum was right...

This guy is contemporary and PT Barnum would like.


Anton LaVey - Wikipedia

Originally Posted by Guest

Don Baldwin

Oh come on Carl...any SERIOUS religious scholar knows all this. The Books attributed to John, Luke, Mathew...etc...are all anonymous, bits and pieces from various authors over the years. Whole books were deleted out of the Bible because they didn't conform to the "message" they wanted.

You REALLY believe the Bible is the "Word of God"? Literally?

They spend whole semesters studying OTHER works of fiction too.

Barnum was right...

Good try, Don. But, as I said, the discussion is too complex for a discussion on a social media forum.

And, yes, I REALLY believe the Bible is the "Word of God." Literally? you ask. I would say rather, "true," but expressed in a variety of literary styles, suitable to the various authors and periods in which they wrote.

Beyond that, I see no purpose in debating an entrenched unbeliever. Converting you is not my responsibility once I know that you know where to find the truth. The Bible.

Carl in Tampa

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Originally Posted by Guest

This guy is contemporary and PT Barnum would like.


Anton LaVey - Wikipedia

No wiotte...contemporary to Jesus. There is NOT ONE record from that time of Jesus. Josephus doesn't write of "Christ" until well after Jesus' death. Jesus is not mentioned by name.