They (the Usama people) claims that past relations dont matter. How come it you have past dubious relations you can not get a job with the U S Government. And.......... he wants the No 1 job in the USA.
Maybe Wall Street knows more than we think, remember that the markets look at the future, and it is really ugly what waits for us with an Usama presidency.

Bucco...

I GIVE UP

I told you why I couldn't vote for McCain and they didn't come from the Huffington Post. But if they did why would it matter...they are still my reasons. You insult me and my intelligence....do you think I am some ditsy broad that needs somebody to tell her who to vote for? You make up your mind and I will make up mine.

So I will not vote for McCain you couldn't put a gun to my head and get me to vote for him.

I don't give a crap about Ayers, some black poet and the husband of a women from whom Obama bought a piece of land at market price.

I care about the economy..if you have looked its in the toilet. The last time the Dem's were in we had jobs, healthcare and a budget surplus.

I am all for that........

Bucco, just because you haven't linked Obama to Muslims doesn't mean it hasn't happened. In fact, that link has been made many times, including many times here. His middle name has been used to the exclusion of his first and last name, in all caps no less, by at least one person who has posted here. Just because it has stopped (but I expect it to start since tha poster has come back) doesn't mean it didn't happen.

As to Ayers and his ilk, considering that I lived in Northern California and went to UCLA, it would be amazing if I didn't know many radicals who did in fact think that killing to get their point across was an acceptable act. Didn't mean I agreed with it but I do know I heard it said and I do know of some who were tried and convicted of some pretty serious crimes. I sincerely doubt any of them regret their acts of that time. Would they do the same thing today? Probably not. It was a different era and they were different people.

Some of my past friends and mentors: Angela Davis (she never apologized for her acts and has never said she regrets what she did); Lou Alcindor (can't really say Kareem was my friend but Lou was); Tommie Smith (again, not in the least apologetic); Bobby Seale (and, yes, I also knew Huey Newton but did not consider him a friend); and those are the ones who I can name off the top of my head. I'm sure if I thought long and hard, I could come up with several others that I'd known but probably wouldn't have called friends.

Of course, I could also name a lot of "good" guys that I liked, admired, respected and even revered.

I was not and am not a radical by any stretch of anyone's imagination. I could no more have marched against Vietnam than I could have tried to kill my child. It would have been wrong for me. I could not imagine wanting people to die to make a point. Even so, I had friends who did protest, who did feel murder was acceptable under certain circumstances. When the conversations turned to those type of acts, I would leave.

Obama knew Ayers well after Ayers had committed his acts. I understand Ayers saying that he doesn't regret his acts is in fact reprehensible but I can understand the comment. It was a different era. While I could never condone nor accept what the Weathermen and the Black Panthers did, I could and can understand why they did what they did and why they felt what they did was right. I think that is what Ayers meant: he feels that his actions were right for the time and, given the facts as he knew them then, he would do it again at THAT time and under THOSE circumstances. That doesn't mean he would do them today. The man Obama knows is not the man of the 60s. I doubt that the young Bill Ayers would have been able to stand being in the same room of the Bill Ayers today.

I think you also have to look at the fact that there is a huge difference in what a President wants to have happen and what does happen. Politics does tie a politician's hands. The Supreme Court appointee that is thought to be a diehard liberal can change (think Felix Frankfurter who advocated states' rights over and over). While it may be easier for a Democratic President to accomplsh some goals with a Democratic Congress, that doesn't mean the President gets a blank check. There really is a balance of power.

As I've said previously, I do understand your fears about Obama. I don't necessarily agree, but I do understand them. Arguing his voting record, I understand and it is a big issue in my mind. Disliking his association with Rev. Wright, I agree. Linking Obama to his grandparents' and mother's friends, I totally disagree. I really can't get worked up about Ayers. I don't like all that ACORN has done, is doing and probably will do in the future but I do believe they've also accomplished some good things, so I'm not overly upset about his association with that organization.

And, going back to my original point (AGAIN), why would McCain run an ad associating Obama to Ayers and then make a public statement to "temper" the crowd that implies that Obama is not a radical or a socialist? Either drop the ad that "you approved" or don't try to imply it isn't true to your supporters.

Originally Posted by cologal

Bucco...

I GIVE UP

I told you why I couldn't vote for McCain and they didn't come from the Huffington Post. But if they did why would it matter...they are still my reasons. You insult me and my intelligence....do you think I am some ditsy broad that needs somebody to tell her who to vote for? You make up your mind and I will make up mine.

So I will not vote for McCain you couldn't put a gun to my head and get me to vote for him.

I don't give a crap about Ayers, some black poet and the husband of a women from whom Obama bought a piece of land at market price.

I care about the economy..if you have looked its in the toilet. The last time the Dem's were in we had jobs, healthcare and a budget surplus.

I am all for that........

I am sorry Cologal...this post of yours make no sense at all.

Look, if you dont care about radical associations with your new President, then by all means vote for Sen Obama. If you dont give a "crap" about those associations then vote for Sen Obama.

Economy...hey, you been paying attention...if you read the letter that Sen McCain sent to congress TWO years ago warning them about Fannie mae and Freddy Mac....and that guy Raines who was in charge.....the guy who WAS ADVISING Sen Obama..remember him..he ran fannie mae and the Democrats you so roundly support stood tall in his defense. Well, your hero Sen Obama dropped him from his campaign like a hot potato.

Republicans were involved as well...lets be clear but you ALWAYS...100% of the time blame them and tout the Democrats. Seems you have had your mind made up all along to me.

But, if I offended you...dont know who...just tell you how I feel, I am sorry...

Originally Posted by Bucco

I am sorry Cologal...this post of yours make no sense at all.

Look, if you don't care about radical associations with your new President, then by all means vote for Sen Obama. If you don't give a "crap" about those associations then vote for Sen Obama.

Economy...hey, you been paying attention...if you read the letter that Sen McCain sent to congress TWO years ago warning them about Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac....and that guy Raine's who was in charge.....the guy who WAS ADVISING Sen Obama..remember him..he ran Fannie Mae and the Democrats you so roundly support stood tall in his defense. Well, your hero Sen Obama dropped him from his campaign like a hot potato.

Republicans were involved as well...lets be clear but you ALWAYS...100% of the time blame them and tout the Democrats. Seems you have had your mind made up all along to me.

But, if I offended you...dont know who...just tell you how I feel, I am sorry...

I was offended when you said I got my reasons from the Huffington Post.

All party's involved have always maintained that Raine's never advised Obama..that claim has been proven to be false but the Republicans keep repeating it.

Bucco....look at my posts..I have always maintained that there was enough blame to go around for this economic crisis. That being said I never believed in Trickle Down economics....Now I will NEVER vote for anyone whose policies involve Free markets, deregulation and tax cuts for the rich. The middle class was abandoned during the last 8 years.

But that being said I, and the country, don't need the 2nd coming of Bush. To me that is what McCain represents. Just look at McCain's treatment of Obama at the debates. In the first one he wouldn't look at him. In the second he called him "That One". And there was his champaign trying to tie Obama to terrorism...so much so that people at his crowds shouted out "Kill Him"

I can't abide but that kind of campaigning....all you had to do was look at those crowds...it was scary. It got so bad McCain had to dial them back and got booed for it. If you whip people up it is hard to put the Genie back into the bottle.

You know that I am a Hillary girl...Obama is not my guy. My mail in ballot is on the dining room table. It has always been my intent to leave the President vote blank. But with the turn in the campaign I am no longer sure that is what I should do.

In 2000 I had great respect for John McCain...where did he go? This guy is a far cry from the 2000 John McCain.

This McCain I cannot vote for......

Originally Posted by cologal

I was offended when you said I got my reasons from the Huffington Post.

All party's involved have always maintained that Raine's never advised Obama..that claim has been proven to be false but the Republicans keep repeating it.

Bucco....look at my posts..I have always maintained that there was enough blame to go around for this economic crisis. That being said I never believed in Trickle Down economics....Now I will NEVER vote for anyone whose policies involve Free markets, deregulation and tax cuts for the rich. The middle class was abandoned during the last 8 years.

But that being said I, and the country, don't need the 2nd coming of Bush. To me that is what McCain represents. Just look at McCain's treatment of Obama at the debates. In the first one he wouldn't look at him. In the second he called him "That One". And there was his champaign trying to tie Obama to terrorism...so much so that people at his crowds shouted out "Kill Him"

I can't abide but that kind of campaigning....all you had to do was look at those crowds...it was scary. It got so bad McCain had to dial them back and got booed for it. If you whip people up it is hard to put the Genie back into the bottle.

You know that I am a Hillary girl...Obama is not my guy. My mail in ballot is on the dining room table. It has always been my intent to leave the President vote blank. But with the turn in the campaign I am no longer sure that is what I should do.

In 2000 I had great respect for John McCain...where did he go? This guy is a far cry from the 2000 John McCain.

This McCain I cannot vote for......

1. Mr Raines himself is the source of advising the Obama campaign. During an interview with the Washington Post and a photo shoot, he told a reporter that...this is an bit of that...

""In the four years since he stepped down as Fannie Mae's chief executive under the shadow of a $6.3 billion accounting scandal, Franklin D. Raines has been quietly constructing a new life for himself," Ms. Huslin's story began. "He has shaved eight points off his golf handicap, taken a corner office in Steve Case's D.C. conglomeration of finance, entertainment and health care companies and, more recently, taken calls from Barack Obama's presidential campaign seeking his advice on mortgage and housing matters."

Now, of course both Obama and Raines will deny this, but whatever you want to believe is fine. I know for a fact that Sen McCain and a few others wrote TWO years ago warning congress about this situation...Sen Obama did not join in the letter. You make your own decision 1 NOTHING has been proven on either side thus your statement..."that claim has been proven to be false but the Republicans keep repeating it. " is simply not true.

2. Your second paragraph about the "2nd coming of Bush" is simply what Sen Obama has been telling you. Check the record on the men....OOPS, there is NO record for Sen Obama....listen, to vote for a radical JUST FOR CHANGE makes no logical sense to me at all. Actions at the debate made no influence on me. I listen to them and they both said NOTHING.....my decision is not made on body language on something this important.

3. As far as the crowds are concerned, as I said I do not know why Sen McCain is not being complimented but I suppose that mentality does not exist. The crowds were getting out of control I suppose with shouts...Sen Obama always has such well behave folks...anyway, Sen McCain wanted to temper the crowd so he tells them not to fear Sen Obama and guess what..he gets criticized for that..amazing. Sen Obama IS VERY SCARY, but nobody that I am aware of has ATTACKED HIM PERSONALLY OR HIS FAMILY IN ANY WAY....they are attacking his idealogy which is radical and of course in return are called either racist of hate mongers. Of course, it is ok to attack every single member of Gov Palin's family....Sen McCains wife, etc..that is fine. Go figure but nobody has attacked Sen Obama on a personal level to my knowledge...HIS IDEALOGY yes !

4. The turn in the campaign is too late and too soft. Sen Clinton should have attacked this area during the primary harder. She did but she and President Clinton were called all kinds of vile things because of it.
Sen McCains talks only about Sen Obama and his radical ideaology WHICH IS TOTALLY TRUE (see Ayers, Wright, and all) and he is called a hate monger and negative. So, in my opinion this should have been at the forefront of the campaign early on and should have been much more accented but our great media would have done worse to Sen McCain that what they are doing.
I am not sure why you dont think Sen Obama's idealogy and associates that give credence to that radical thiinking is not important and if brought up is negative. That to me, makes no sense at all.

Colgal...just want to add a postscript to this.....I am tired of being called a racist and a hate monger because I think Sen Obama has a radical background and basis for his philosophies.

CNN, I think on thursday evening, had the exec director of ACORN on for a live exclusive talk. She said that they had registered over 1 million folks to vote and that "70% of them were of color"....her words,not mine. Now, had anyone on the other side said anything close to that it would be headlines the next day.

Then you add the Dem in Alabama who says that Sen McCain bringing up Ayers is like George Wallace making a racism issue.

Folks, what is going on ? Ever since the primary, if you hit home with Sen Obama you are immediately branded a racist, hate monger or all around bad person. Now, he personally doesnt do it of course.

Oh and by the way...if you read the game plan for radicals written by Sal Alinsky and studied by Sen Obama the tactics, as Sen Obama used as a community organizer, are similiar. Tell everyone how bad they have it (sound famaliar) and when they criticize you , turn it around on them (as with the race and hate stuff).

Originally Posted by Bucco

Colgal...just want to add a postscript to this.....I am tired of being called a racist and a hate monger because I think Sen Obama has a radical background and basis for his philosophies.

CNN, I think on thursday evening, had the exec director of ACORN on for a live exclusive talk. She said that they had registered over 1 million folks to vote and that "70% of them were of color"....her words,not mine. Now, had anyone on the other side said anything close to that it would be headlines the next day.

Then you add the Dem in Alabama who says that Sen McCain bringing up Ayers is like George Wallace making a racism issue.

Folks, what is going on ? Ever since the primary, if you hit home with Sen Obama you are immediately branded a racist, hate monger or all around bad person. Now, he personally doesnt do it of course.

Oh and by the way...if you read the game plan for radicals written by Sal Alinsky and studied by Sen Obama the tactics, as Sen Obama used as a community organizer, are similiar. Tell everyone how bad they have it (sound famaliar) and when they criticize you , turn it around on them (as with the race and hate stuff).

Bucco, it should be evident by now, this name calling isn't winning McCain the election. Nothing is.

Originally Posted by chelsea24

Bucco, it should be evident by now, this name calling isn't winning McCain the election. Nothing is.

I posted a post about Sen McCain being called names and you turn it around to say he is calling names...WOW

He is pointing out associations with folks who are radical, as Sen Obama like to point out things. This just strikes a chord and thus the racist and hate monger comments. It is not hate when you simply tell folks who this man 9Sen Obama) has and WILL associate with. Did you call it hate mongering or racist when the Rev Wright thing came out ? Is it hate mongering or racist when there is more press on Gov Palin's every move and her family ? Is it hate mongering or racist when a Democrat speaks out and says to stop talking about Ayers; that it is like George Wallace ?

So, anytime you point out associations of the opponent that is hate mongering or racist if you are black ?

Was it racist when the head of ACORN said they registered over 1 million folks, "70% of color" ?

It is getting old to be called racist or hate mongerer at the drop of a that when you, as the minority thus can do just about anything including questioning Sen Mcains mental health, his flying record, his marriage....now that is NOT any kind of hate at all, right ?

Originally Posted by Bucco

1. Mr Raines himself is the source of advising the Obama campaign. During an interview with the Washington Post and a photo shoot, he told a reporter that...this is an bit of that...

""In the four years since he stepped down as Fannie Mae's chief executive under the shadow of a $6.3 billion accounting scandal, Franklin D. Raines has been quietly constructing a new life for himself," Ms. Huslin's story began. "He has shaved eight points off his golf handicap, taken a corner office in Steve Case's D.C. conglomeration of finance, entertainment and health care companies and, more recently, taken calls from Barack Obama's presidential campaign seeking his advice on mortgage and housing matters."

Now, of course both Obama and Raines will deny this, but whatever you want to believe is fine. I know for a fact that Sen McCain and a few others wrote TWO years ago warning congress about this situation...Sen Obama did not join in the letter. You make your own decision 1 NOTHING has been proven on either side thus your statement..."that claim has been proven to be false but the Republicans keep repeating it. " is simply not true.

2. Your second paragraph about the "2nd coming of Bush" is simply what Sen Obama has been telling you. Check the record on the men....OOPS, there is NO record for Sen Obama....listen, to vote for a radical JUST FOR CHANGE makes no logical sense to me at all. Actions at the debate made no influence on me. I listen to them and they both said NOTHING.....my decision is not made on body language on something this important.

3. As far as the crowds are concerned, as I said I do not know why Sen McCain is not being complimented but I suppose that mentality does not exist. The crowds were getting out of control I suppose with shouts...Sen Obama always has such well behave folks...anyway, Sen McCain wanted to temper the crowd so he tells them not to fear Sen Obama and guess what..he gets criticized for that..amazing. Sen Obama IS VERY SCARY, but nobody that I am aware of has ATTACKED HIM PERSONALLY OR HIS FAMILY IN ANY WAY....they are attacking his ideology which is radical and of course in return are called either racist of hate mongers. Of course, it is ok to attack every single member of Gov Palin's family....Sen McCains wife, etc..that is fine. Go figure but nobody has attacked Sen Obama on a personal level to my knowledge...HIS IDEALOGY yes !

4. The turn in the campaign is too late and too soft. Sen Clinton should have attacked this area during the primary harder. She did but she and President Clinton were called all kinds of vile things because of it.
Sen McCains talks only about Sen Obama and his radical ideaology WHICH IS TOTALLY TRUE (see Ayers, Wright, and all) and he is called a hate monger and negative. So, in my opinion this should have been at the forefront of the campaign early on and should have been much more accented but our great media would have done worse to Sen McCain that what they are doing.
I am not sure why you don't think Sen Obama's ideaology and associates that give credence to that radical thinking is not important and if brought up is negative. That to me, makes no sense at all.

Bucco....

All you have to do is to look McCain's tax proposals and you will see the second coming of Bush. I have 2 nephews in the military one of them has been to Iraq 4 times and wounded once. McCain wants us to stay in Iraq for 100 years.....How can we afford 10 billion dollars a month for an extended period of time? I don't want my nephews put in harms way for this totally stupid war.

I a totally tired of the MSM argument it no longer washes. AM radio is totally controlled by Conservative Right Wing Talk radio..Fox News is a mouthpiece for the Republican Talking points. MSM and CNN have some conservative and some liberal shows. I had to laugh when Couric was labeled as a left wing liberal. The Bush Administration has been very successful in tamping down the press.. Even McCain has thrown a reporter off his plane and canceled an interview due to things that were send.

At the debate Obama on almost every question said: And this is my plan or this is what I will do. Do you miss that? Cause I didn't.

The 60's were a bad time but look around we have much of the same conditions right now...A bad war and a less than popular President. We have had anti war marches but no bombs...nothing like the 60's.

I don't see what you see....And you can't see what I see. So we will have to agree to disagree. That is where I will leave it.

Originally Posted by Bucco

I posted a post about Sen McCain being called names and you turn it around to say he is calling names...WOW

He is pointing out associations with folks who are radical, as Sen Obama like to point out things. This just strikes a chord and thus the racist and hate monger comments. It is not hate when you simply tell folks who this man 9Sen Obama) has and WILL associate with. Did you call it hate mongering or racist when the Rev Wright thing came out ? Is it hate mongering or racist when there is more press on Gov Palin's every move and her family ? Is it hate mongering or racist when a Democrat speaks out and says to stop talking about Ayers; that it is like George Wallace ?

So, anytime you point out associations of the opponent that is hate mongering or racist if you are black ?

Was it racist when the head of ACORN said they registered over 1 million folks, "70% of color" ?

It is getting old to be called racist or hate mongerer at the drop of a that when you, as the minority thus can do just about anything including questioning Sen Mcains mental health, his flying record, his marriage....now that is NOT any kind of hate at all, right ?

Let's get this clear Bucco. I didn't call you that. The point you're missing is that NONE of this matters anymore. Obama is eleven points ahead, and if race was not involved, according to CNN, he would be 16 points ahead. McCain would have to have one heck of an "Economic" October Surprise to catch up.

It is interesting to note that the one place where McCain polls ahead of Obama is with conservative older voters, i.e. The Villages type of voters. We have to remember, we are just a small fraction of the voting populace in the country. I see many angry posts in this forum from both liberals and conservatives. No point getting your shorts in a bind - the national polls clearly show Obama ahead. Sarah Palin was a big "wow" factor a few weeks ago. Last night, she dropped the puck to a loud chorus of boos from the audience. The Republicans have put forth their proposals for fixing the country, and the Dems are still pulling ahead. So now, rather than focus on the issues, Republicans are pulling out the old smear campaigns, hoping for a miracle. I don't think its going to work - I think people are smarter than that.

Originally Posted by cologal

Bucco....

All you have to do is to look McCain's tax proposals and you will see the second coming of Bush. I have 2 nephews in the military one of them has been to Iraq 4 times and wounded once. McCain wants us to stay in Iraq for 100 years.....How can we afford 10 billion dollars a month for an extended period of time? I don't want my nephews put in harms way for this totally stupid war.

I a totally tired of the MSM argument it no longer washes. AM radio is totally controlled by Conservative Right Wing Talk radio..Fox News is a mouthpiece for the Republican Talking points. MSM and CNN have some conservative and some liberal shows. I had to laugh when Couric was labeled as a left wing liberal. The Bush Administration has been very successful in tamping down the press.. Even McCain has thrown a reporter off his plane and canceled an interview due to things that were send.

At the debate Obama on almost every question said: And this is my plan or this is what I will do. Do you miss that? Cause I didn't.

The 60's were a bad time but look around we have much of the same conditions right now...A bad war and a less than popular President. We have had anti war marches but no bombs...nothing like the 60's.

I don't see what you see....And you can't see what I see. So we will have to agree to disagree. That is where I will leave it.

Just want to acknowledge I am reading your post for whatever that is worth.

Please, it is yoru right to vote for a man you know NOTHING about except for his political speeches and ads...and I wish you well !

Originally Posted by chelsea24

Let's get this clear Bucco. I didn't call you that. The point you're missing is that NONE of this matters anymore. Obama is eleven points ahead, and if race was not involved, according to CNN, he would be 16 points ahead. McCain would have to have one heck of an "Economic" October Surprise to catch up.

No you did not call me that.

Yes, it appears that Sen Obama will win this election. We will have a president that we deserve..one that we know NOTHING AT ALL ABOUT except for his political ads and speeches.

I pray I am wrong about him, but I am usually pretty good at this and I dont think I am wrong in any way !!!


It already is beginning....the black vs white issues are jumping all over the place...ACORN wants to register as many black voters as possible..A Democrat in Alabama envokes the name of George Wallace...York County South Carolina some folks break in to the Republican hdquartes and spray paint the walls...with "Republican means slavery"....Sen Obama's co chair...Jessie Jackson's son says that Sen Obama is "acting too white"....Farrakahan calls Sen Obama the messiah...durinng the primary anyone who did not vote for Sen Obama and had the audacity to support Sen Clinton was doing so because of race........There is much more but you get the idea.

Again, he will be my president also and I sincerley hope I am wrong but there is so much to indicate that I am right on target. He will do the same thing as President that he has done in this race and the primary...I will take matching funds (OH NO...look at all this money..no I wont).....he will say...you criticize me because I am black anytime he is criticized and that will stir the pot.....he will get rightous when you use his given middle name and,not he,but his staff will say you are hate mongering.

.....polls have nothing to do with what the individual will do...at the time....in the voting booth.
Polls are like surveys....constructed to reflect the outcome being sought.
Who ever wins.....the real proof of all the political fluster, bluster, BS, school yard shenaningans...etc....will be what this country looks like when the newbie President makes his first State of the Union.
Until then the loyalists can only hope they are making the right choice.
We will get a little insight to how that may go when we find out who the newbie picks as his cabinet....either one of the candidates that is. ....it ain't over till it's over.

BTK