Originally Posted by Guest

Those 12 steps sound exactly what the Regressives on this forum are doing with anyone who expresses a pro-Clinton opinion, don't they?

Why don't you research the Hillary Letters of correspondence with Saul Alinsky!!!!!! There is a connection

Originally Posted by Guest

Dear Guests:

I am the poster who referenced Alinsky 8 steps to control a social state.
It was information I collected sometime ago. I should have verified it given all the junk on the internet these days, but I did not. My apology. It was never my attempt to pull a fast one on any poster and I do deserve to be criticized for my failure to verify. However a few posters went a bit too far in their direct attacks on my character.

Having said that the 8 steps listed still merit consideration because every last step was applied by Obama and they all are intended to create a social state and controlled by the federal government. Can one say that Obama extrapolated his applications in part from his studies of Alinsky? Don't know? But it does give one pause since both were community organizers

It is difficult to discuss a public figure especially one that is very controversial because emotions run high. Saint or sinner is left in the eye of the beholder.

Lessons in life tend to be painful or at least uncomfortable . Hopefully this lesson will stick with me. Again my apology.

Personal Best Regards:

Stating that the made up 8 steps still merit consideration taints your apology. But minus that paragraph, thanks.

I agree with the 1st posters comments..... These rules are NOT about socialist or communist views there about shaping the views of people.

Look at the first one...

Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have. Power is derived from the sources people, and money. Is this not a true statement.....

Ridicule is a man's most potent weapon. There is no defense. It's irrational. Think Rush

I guess that the hard right machine is going back to the well one to many times.....these rules are old news. Used against Obama.
I am no socialist, but in college at first glance it seemed interesting...but then I moved into a condo unit then I began to understand...it was an object lesson. Should my views or any political candidates views be set in stone when they were in college? I think not because I know my views on many things have evolved over time.

Originally Posted by Guest

I agree with the 1st posters comments..... These rules are NOT about socialist or communist views there about shaping the views of people.

Look at the first one...

Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have. Power is derived from the sources people, and money. Is this not a true statement.....

Ridicule is a man's most potent weapon. There is no defense. It's irrational. Think Rush

I guess that the hard right machine is going back to the well one to many times.....these rules are old news. Used against Obama.
I am no socialist, but in college at first glance it seemed interesting...but then I moved into a condo unit then I began to understand...it was an object lesson. Should my views or any political candidates views be set in stone when they were in college? I think not because I know my views on many things have evolved over time.

Probably the best post on this entire thread!

Originally Posted by Guest

Stating that the made up 8 steps still merit consideration taints your apology. But minus that paragraph, thanks.

Dear Guest: My sincere thanks for responding to my post but I wonder why giving merit to those 8 steps in my personal view is any less credible than your view that it tinted my apology? And I wonder why you did not address specifically why it taints my view? Or why you do not refute the comparison?

If one examines those 8 steps we can find Obama's fingerprints all over them.

Healthcare = Obamacare and the news that carrier are going to up premiums from 10% to 50% in this year.

Poverty = Food stamps ,medicaid up handsomely during the Obama years Obama not only give free phones he now wants to parcel out free internet
And under Obama this economy has not rebounded ( anemic) since the recession ended in 2009

Debt= Obama has accumulated more debt than the last three presidents combines over 18 trillion and counting

Education= I'll give him a pass since there are so many progressive dirty hands in this mess its hard to distinguish. However his student loan program is another handout and his policy concerning rape victims on college campuses lacks due process and invokes a kangaroo court mentality..proven guilty until . Its a sham and its being challenged in court like so many of his policies

Religion= the attacks on religion under this president administration abound and under Obamacare shock the conscious

Class Warfare= Obama has divided this nation not only by economic class but by race, gender and religion

Obama is a natural community organizer and like all organizer an important tool in their bag is the ability to divide to cause chaos and disagreement. This is especially true since he also has a Chicago style political bent .

I am open to any disagreement because the bottom line for me is I want any president to be as right as s/he can be for the sake of this nation and its people.

Personal Best Regards:

Guest will you please elucidate

Originally Posted by Guest

Dear Guest: My sincere thanks for responding to my post but I wonder why giving merit to those 8 steps in my personal view is any less credible than your view that it tinted my apology? And I wonder why you did not address specifically why it taints my view? Or why you do not refute the comparison?

If one examines those 8 steps we can find Obama's fingerprints all over them.

Healthcare = Obamacare and the news that carrier are going to up premiums from 10% to 50% in this year.

Poverty = Food stamps ,medicaid up handsomely during the Obama years Obama not only give free phones he now wants to parcel out free internet
And under Obama this economy has not rebounded ( anemic) since the recession ended in 2009

Debt= Obama has accumulated more debt than the last three presidents combines over 18 trillion and counting

Education= I'll give him a pass since there are so many progressive dirty hands in this mess its hard to distinguish. However his student loan program is another handout and his policy concerning rape victims on college campuses lacks due process and invokes a kangaroo court mentality..proven guilty until . Its a sham and its being challenged in court like so many of his policies

Religion= the attacks on religion under this president administration abound and under Obamacare shock the conscious

Class Warfare= Obama has divided this nation not only by economic class but by race, gender and religion

Obama is a natural community organizer and like all organizer an important tool in their bag is the ability to divide to cause chaos and disagreement. This is especially true since he also has a Chicago style political bent .

I am open to any disagreement because the bottom line for me is I want any president to be as right as s/he can be for the sake of this nation and its people.

Personal Best Regards:

To make a point you cited an 8 step Alinski protocol to control a social state. The whole thing was made up, and a poster called you out on it. You acknowledged your transgression and apologized. But you went on to give the made up piece merit and now you've parsed it like it's actual data. You are wondering why I won't refute something that wasn't real to begin with.

Perhaps this link will help you to move on from the hole you dug.

snopes.com: Saul Alinsky: How to Create a Social State

Originally Posted by Guest

To make a point you cited an 8 step Alinski protocol to control a social state. The whole thing was made up, and a poster called you out on it. You acknowledged your transgression and apologized. But you went on to give the made up piece merit and now you've parsed it like it's actual data. You are wondering why I won't refute something that wasn't real to begin with.

Perhaps this link will help you to move on from the hole you dug.

snopes.com: Saul Alinsky: How to Create a Social State

Dear Guest: I had visited snopes and the basis for my admission that the 8 steps were not Alinsky but you present a false narrative when you negate the comparison because it wasn't Alinsky. The comparison of the 8 steps irrespective of who created them fit perfectly as an overlay to Obama's policies and you continue to refuse to acknowledge that one way or another.
Is Obamacare made up? Is 18 trillion in debt made up? Is the substantial increase in food stamps, et al made up? Is the anemic economy made up because if it is then the why hasn't the Fed let loose on interest rates so that people can begin earning interest on their money?

I made have missed that Alinsky didn't create these 8 steps but they make the comparison no less accurate. At least one of us has been honest in this discussion

Personal Best Regards:

Believe me, I am not questioning your honesty. However, You can't overlook what President Obama was handed. The rise in debt shouldn't be the debt increase, since Jan. 20, 2009. The former president, pushed the snowball down the hill. You start counting Obama's contribution to the debt, when the snowball hit flat ground., That would be when the economy hit rock bottom. I think that was in the summer of 2009.

The increase in food stamps was a direct result of the great recession. The increase in debt due to Iraq again has to be placed on the past president.

The old saying that figures lie, and liars figure. Again, you are not a liar, but the same can't be said of the Republicans congressmen, and newsmen pushing the lotion that President Obama has increased the debt more than every other president.

The problem with throwing ACA into to the mix is uninsured people were using the emergency room as their primary care doctor. The hidden increases in insurance rates due to this have been thrown into the ACA; therefore, they are known. This isn't an increase due to ACA. This was always there.

Why haven't interest rates increased? Every time there is a threat to increase interest rates the stock market takes a dive. The Fed. chair shouldn't be looking at this, but it appears that they are. Wall Street still has a lot to say in the economy. That is not going to change.

Again much of the increase is due to what he inherited. I am not blaming "W", because he was dealt a blow in first four years. Personally, I think, he was a honest man that was taken for a ride by his advisors. The bankers really hurt this country with their mortgage policies. Fraud was running out of control. Only one of this thieves served any jail time. That is the real crime. Start pointing your fingers at them for the increase in US debt.

Originally Posted by Guest

Believe me, I am not questioning your honesty. However, You can't overlook what President Obama was handed. The rise in debt shouldn't be the debt increase, since Jan. 20, 2009. The former president, pushed the snowball down the hill. You start counting Obama's contribution to the debt, when the snowball hit flat ground., That would be when the economy hit rock bottom. I think that was in the summer of 2009.

The increase in food stamps was a direct result of the great recession. The increase in debt due to Iraq again has to be placed on the past president.

The old saying that figures lie, and liars figure. Again, you are not a liar, but the same can't be said of the Republicans congressmen, and newsmen pushing the lotion that President Obama has increased the debt more than every other president.

The problem with throwing ACA into to the mix is uninsured people were using the emergency room as their primary care doctor. The hidden increases in insurance rates due to this have been thrown into the ACA; therefore, they are known. This isn't an increase due to ACA. This was always there.

Why haven't interest rates increased? Every time there is a threat to increase interest rates the stock market takes a dive. The Fed. chair shouldn't be looking at this, but it appears that they are. Wall Street still has a lot to say in the economy. That is not going to change.

Again much of the increase is due to what he inherited. I am not blaming "W", because he was dealt a blow in first four years. Personally, I think, he was a honest man that was taken for a ride by his advisors. The bankers really hurt this country with their mortgage policies. Fraud was running out of control. Only one of this thieves served any jail time. That is the real crime. Start pointing your fingers at them for the increase in US debt.

I think you over simplify, but it is what it is.

I am still seething after readin the thread on True..Not true. I never doubted this President and his sincerity, but he has lied quite a bit, and now he is simply creating racial divide. I actually trusted this guy at the beginning, but now, he is insulting us all

I probably am over simplify the increase in debt. They are still running an annual deficit of 500 billion dollars give or take 50 billion. Both parties are protecting their own priorities. He did extend the Bush tax cuts for lower, and middle income people, that increased the debt. His first stimulus plan didn't do much of anything. He stole from Medicare to partly fund ACA. That money could have been used elsewhere, if you except the fact that Medicare funds can be used wherever they want. They haven't done anything to reform the income tax.

The racial divide has always been there. He is adding fuel to it in his second term, because it would have never flown in his first term.

Lied is a pretty strong word. Claims that he made that turn out to be wrong, may not be lies.

I wonder when this president will take responsibility for his bad decisions? I will not defend W but he had always taken responsibility for his actions,he has always shown his patriotism and he has always remained dignified and he remained reticent even when Obama was slamming him.

History will determine a president's legacy and I am betting Obama will go down as the worse president who ever served which is going to take the pressure off of Carter. I keep saying I wish that wasn't so but the American voters got it wrong in 2008 and 2012. I pray God they get it right in 2016


Personal Best Regards

Originally Posted by Guest

I wonder when this president will take responsibility for his bad decisions? I will not defend W but he had always taken responsibility for his actions,he has always shown his patriotism and he has always remained dignified and he remained reticent even when Obama was slamming him.

History will determine a president's legacy and I am betting Obama will go down as the worse president who ever served which is going to take the pressure off of Carter. I keep saying I wish that wasn't so but the American voters got it wrong in 2008 and 2012. I pray God they get it right in 2016


Personal Best Regards

I am quite sure the American voters WILL get it right in 2016 and getting it right means that Hillary Clinton WILL be YOUR next President!!!

Originally Posted by Guest

I am quite sure the American voters WILL get it right in 2016 and getting it right means that Hillary Clinton WILL be YOUR next President!!!

I am not being sarcastic, but am in hope that someday these folks who come on here with their little "slogans: will address WHY you think Hillary Clinton should be the next President.

Originally Posted by Guest

I am not being sarcastic, but am in hope that someday these folks who come on here with their little "slogans: will address WHY you think Hillary Clinton should be the next President.

Very easy to answer: We do not want ANY DumbAs- Republican as President!