to decide on their own what they like and don't like. I find it interesting that a comment was made that because of the political forum atmosphere it affects the rest of the forum.

Why did we not hear how upsetting the political forum is to some participants during the heated exchanges all through 2008 prior to the election??? The exchanges before the election were certainly less civil than they are today.....in my humble opinion. It is also interested as has been observed frequently some of those who were most verbal of participants no longer post (or at least not under their 2008 identity).

Political is political. The acceptability of the content is in the eye of the one looking at you in the mirror!!

I wish the number of participants would increase 20% then we would really find out what people think and the opinions would be even more varied (and to some even more unacceptable).

I think it is self adjusting/policing and just fine!!!!!!!!! Do not ever expect to keep all of the people happy all of the time....statistically (or any other measure) impossible!!

btk

btk

Originally Posted by cabo35

Tony......boy that was a close one.....I thought for sure I was going to wind up in the penalty box for graphic, exotic content in my last post when I saw your name on the thread.

I agree with a substantial portion of your post. My mom was a Boston democrat who worked on JFK's campaign and my father, a staunch Goldwater republican. It made for interesting dinner talk. At family gatherings, she would caution against conversation involving politics and religion. You would have to know my family to fully appreciate that point. Unfortunately our family loyalties were also divided between the Red Sox and the Yankees. Sports talk wasn't always a pretty option and it usually morphed into loud, animated political debate.

I learned to listen a lot between wine, appetizers, soup, pasta, roast and homemade Italian desserts, and then, start all over again. If you are Italian, you understand the serving process. Relatives would get insulted, have their feathers ruffled and sometimes didn't speak until the next family gathering and one of mom's day long dinners. As acrimonious as it got....God forbid an outsider should abuse or threaten a family member. Those who tried felt the wrath of the entire family. You've heard of the Soprano's? I know them, they took notes from my family.

I look at TOTV as kind of an extended family. It gets a little crazy sometimes, like my relatives... posters or visitors get their feathers ruffled on occasion, but, I believe that they are all good people who are passionate about their politics and loyal American patriots each and every one. I would like to think my polar political opposite would defend me if I was sincerely threatened. I know that with a degree of certainty for some antagonists I have had "bristling" exchanges with.

I guess I'm saying it wouldn't be a political forum if it wasn't contentious to some degree. You are correct about the unhealthy nature that surfaces when the vitriolic level evolves into personal attacks. I know that my twisted sense of humor has occasionally been taken as a personal attack. I wouldn't be sincere if I told you I felt apologetic about that.

Keedy is correct when he cites other out of control political forums. I hope that this forum does not meet an ignoble demise. I am sure you and the other administrators will do what has to be done to keep it alive and lively while tempered with enforced decorum.

For the record...you weren't in my mind dancing in the town square when I conjured up this post. Hmmmmm.....

Have a good evening.

Cabo35 is lubricating my appetite for sure!!! I love the Soprano's... as I have the complete DVD set.
I just want to say that there is alot of talent here...Cabo35...Steve Z...billethKid...Bucco...yea even Boomer , just to name a few. I have learned very much since I joined this forum. It has helped me decide to take the LifeStyle Visit, which I plan to make in November for my 60th birthday.
In closing, I wish that more of the posters that just drop in and give their one or two wise-guy sentences would really try to sit down and reveal more of themselves and contribute.
Like Capo says...it might get a little emotional around here but if people didn't get their blood boiling and just became analytical and polite...it might start to get a little stale. Give me the Sopranos any day.

I think Keedy said it best with the comment about shaking hands after a good match.

We're all a little long-in-the-tooth, and that alone has us having seen many things (good and bad) and developing opinions often based on burned fingers. Because of that, everyone's experience and viewpoints are different, and we can get rather intense in our sharing.

The trick is to accept that people believe what they believe in good faith. Granted, the capacity to share in good faith is quite variable among those who visit here, and that can make for hard times and ruffled egos.

What is interesting are discussions (and that can be a stretch of a term!) where at times the idealists and pragmatists try to explain themselves to each other, and neither can accept it when the other fails to change sides.

We all have a lot to learn from each other when we share our opinions and, more importantly, the reasons for our opinions. We still may not agree despite the added shared information. Some may even feel that "changing sides" on an issue is too ego-defeating and fight even harder by making the discussion personal. At our ages, we should know and act better than that.

There are a lot of very smart people (idealists and pragmatists from both major parties, the minor parties and independents) who visit this board, and they all provide different views of the political prism. That's healthy and very American.

So, in this verbal hockey game, as long as it ends with a virtual handshake, and an occasional real one to include a $1.75 margarita at LSL/SS some evening, AND with mutual respect, then let the games continue.....

However, we all should be above personal slamming. It accomplishes nothing, especially when we are all (or will be) neighbors. And within TV, we're a little more than neighbors, since we know that the odds are we may be each other's last neighbors to boot. That alone should keep us respectful to each other.

Originally Posted by KayakerNC

Gee, a literary allusion went over your head.
http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/genera...=9780195366822
or
http://www.amazon.com/Echo-Chamber-L...9073357&sr=8-2

Kayaker, Do you really think anyone would catch the 'literary allusion’? Echo Chamber, is and always has been a national worst seller. It has been out for more than a year now and has generated only four reviews on Amazon. It stands at #194,145 in the Amazon Sales ranking. By contrast Glenn Beck’s most recent book, Glenn Beck's “Common Sense: The Case Against an Out-of-Control Government, Inspired by Thomas Paine”, stands at #3 after having been at #1 for several weeks and his, “An Inconvenient Book: Real Solutions to the World's Biggest Problems” stands at #15,198 after being out for more than two years.

Were you really one of the ten people who bought this book?

billethkid said, "I find it interesting that a comment was made that because of the political forum atmosphere it affects the rest of the forum."

What make you think it didn't. I heard it a lot and let political run it course and not stifle conversation. That, I can see now by your post, was a serious mistake.

by another member who inferred I asked them to leave when I quoted Truman.

As an administrator you will do what ever you have to do based on the information you have.
It will be a shame if the administration feels they have to control access and participation to the examples you cite.

Hopefully your conclusions will not be derived on the participation of the last 6 months.....2009 is a more civil participation than 2008. It w

Good luck in your decision making. If perchance you all conclude a change is required hopefully it does not just wind up consolidating those with a similar belief or outlook. No struggle, no progress.

btk

*************
************
**********

Please tell me what you meant, Keedy, that you think there was politics behind the scenes.

I was just ready to retire....I just mean there must be people complaining...behind the scenes....but that happens everywhere...as a moderator you must hear alot....Nothing personal Tony....Lobbying is a way of life..at work...in Washington...everywhere....
As a member of the board in my condo complex....I have to hear it from both sides of every issue...Good Nite


PS...That's why I deleted it...after thinking about it...I didn't think I expressed myself very well.

upon which a possible change in format of the political forum is based.

One thing I am almost certain of is that the majority of us do not subscribe to the personal attacks, snide remarks and belittling inuendo that surfaces, occasionally.

Excluding those ocassions what is left are the small in number of members who choose to post in the political forum, new threads or comment on existing threads. The subject of politics as everybody knows has varying degrees of credibility and civility at home, school, work, in the state capitals and of course Washington, DC. As with any group there will always be a majority who observe and a minority that will participate. And within those groups there will be sub groups like those who may disagree with a tone or discussion or direction of a given thread.

ANY political forum will ALWAYS have challenging, counter challenging, debating, arguing and then start all over again. It's the intrinsic nature of politics.

There will always be those who will, based on their own personal measure and belief be unhappy, dis-satisfied or even disgusted with the approach of "SOME" posts/posters. Sometimes they may even post in a given thread to express their dis-satisfaction. They no doubt will surely be offended as "SOME" will tell the poster what they think. And I assume some number of those could wind up as a complaint to the administration.

As has been stated many times before they do have a choice as to whether to visit the political forum or not.

As an example, I for one do not subscribe to political correctness. I personally believe it is an option to NOT do what is right or truly "correct"...why else would it be differentiated as 'political' correctness.
I do not expect to change the minds of those who do subscribe to political correctness. I also assume they know they can not change my belief as well. Hence an unresolved discussion/debate and sometimes even argument (remember I said setting personal attacks aside).

To help my thinking (and thank goodness get to my point!!) I looked up the definition of political correctness, presented below:

Main Entry:
politically correct
Function:
adjective
Date:
1936

: conforming to a belief that language and practices which could offend political sensibilities should be eliminated
— political correctness noun

Again setting aside personal attacks, snide and belittling chiding, I conclude the objections of SOME regarding the tenor and interpretation of the political forum clearly meet the definition of political correctness. That is my opinion on the matter.

I do not and probably will not understand the notion that because of the tenor of the political forum (good, bad or indifferent) that it affects/taints the rest of TOTV forums....sounds like arm twisting to me.

My closing example (finally)...if these same people dislike a specific store in Lake Sumter Landing do they stop going to LSL? Do they think it affects the rest of the stores in LSL? And what would TV response be if they got a complaint stating a specific store is disliked and TV needs to do something about it (remember these businesses all passed the TV screen to be allowed in LSL).

I would just hate to see what I will call a special interest group, normally a significantly smaller representation than the majority, be the cause of changing a format that for the most part works and serves it's users.

Thanx for listening.

btk

Originally Posted by Bucco

I am curious under what name you posted during the campaign as I see your join date is January of this year ???

Why do people change names on here...just curious !!

Nothing nefarious going on, just couldn't get logged on with my old screen name when TOTV changed over to a new site. This is exactly why I rarely post here any more. Between the insults and the negativity, you people are just looking for some way to bully, slander or gang up on those who don't agree with you. Well, sorry to disappoint you, but you and your right wing cronies didn't "catch" me at anything. As far as I'm concerned, Tony hit the nail on the head - this political forum is an embarassment, and is not representative of Villagers and TOTV as a whole. Sayonara, you won't see me here again.

Im almost scared of what happened here. I thought I asked a honest question and I dont read here very often but look what happened. In my first question I asked how this web site can be a true cross section of the Villages when only a small number of members write on it and many of them dont even live in the Villages? Then later I looked at more links and I saw that if its very few people who write, in that political area it seemed to be only a very very tiny handful of people who write. That was all that I wondered about. I didnt mean to start a whole arguement, I just wanted to know why so few. Now Im afraid to ask anyting anywhere. I dont know how to quote someone who wrote before, Im thinking of the person who said something about look at the last five pages. Now Im sorry I even asked.

Learned a new phrase today:
Sock Puppet:
The term sock puppet refers to someone who is simultaneously registered under different pseudonyms on a particular message board or forum. The analogy of a sock puppet is of a puppeteer holding up both hands and supplying dialogue to both puppets simultaneously. A sock puppet will create multiple accounts over a period of time, using each user to debate or agree with each other on a forum. Sock puppets are usually found when an IP check is done on the accounts in a forum.

Originally Posted by Keedy

Learned a new phrase today:
Sock Puppet:
The term sock puppet refers to someone who is simultaneously registered under different pseudonyms on a particular message board or forum. The analogy of a sock puppet is of a puppeteer holding up both hands and supplying dialogue to both puppets simultaneously. A sock puppet will create multiple accounts over a period of time, using each user to debate or agree with each other on a forum. Sock puppets are usually found when an IP check is done on the accounts in a forum.

...supplying dialogue to ... you mean like talking points?

I think you should ask for an IP check. You've got my vote.

Originally Posted by Keedy

Learned a new phrase today:
Sock Puppet:
The term sock puppet refers to someone who is simultaneously registered under different pseudonyms on a particular message board or forum. The analogy of a sock puppet is of a puppeteer holding up both hands and supplying dialogue to both puppets simultaneously. A sock puppet will create multiple accounts over a period of time, using each user to debate or agree with each other on a forum. Sock puppets are usually found when an IP check is done on the accounts in a forum.

Wow, do you guys ever underestimate these admins. Trust me, they do their jobs well. They know where each and every post comes from at all times and if there is a name change. Don't turn around... your "newbie" is showing!