I think the details of the report can be summarized by the fear of Muslims overtaking Western populations, and therefore governments, in the not too distant future.

Several things:

The vast majority of these immigrants, as with any revolution are uneducated and poor, and probably suffer discrimination. They are easily led astray by angry ideologies, not to mention the promise of 72 virgins. The rioting in France last year was overwhelmingly poor Muslims in ghettos.

Instead of worrying about population, which no one can really control, we should be PRO-active and figure out ways to get these people educated and accepted on Western terms- good jobs, no exploitation or discrimination. And public benefits should be curtailed after 2 children or whatever # works. That would minimize the opportunity for some radicals to grab hold.

It's ironic, isn't it, that those who were afraid of America becoming a nation where the minorities (Black and Latino) are the majority now have only those groups to look to for extra population growth!

A sweet, but rather ditzy friend of mine from Montana asked me if it wasn't really the fault of gay people- after all, their lifestyle precludes them from joining in the required procreation project. I pointed out to her that 1.) Artifical insemination works as well on gay women as straight, and 2.) that many states have been fighting to forbid gays from becoming parents at all. You can't have it both ways, so to speak.

As always, I belive the ultimate solution to societal problems is to provide the chance for a good education and opportunities to pursue "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Originally Posted by ptownrob

I think the details of the report can be summarized by the fear of Muslims overtaking Western populations, and therefore governments, in the not too distant future.

Several things:

The vast majority of these immigrants, as with any revolution are uneducated and poor, and probably suffer discrimination. They are easily led astray by angry ideologies, not to mention the promise of 72 virgins. The rioting in France last year was overwhelmingly poor Muslims in ghettos.

Instead of worrying about population, which no one can really control, we should be PRO-active and figure out ways to get these people educated and accepted on Western terms- good jobs, no exploitation or discrimination. And public benefits should be curtailed after 2 children or whatever # works. That would minimize the opportunity for some radicals to grab hold.

It's ironic, isn't it, that those who were afraid of America becoming a nation where the minorities (Black and Latino) are the majority now have only those groups to look to for extra population growth!

A sweet, but rather ditzy friend of mine from Montana asked me if it wasn't really the fault of gay people- after all, their lifestyle precludes them from joining in the required procreation project. I pointed out to her that 1.) Artifical insemination works as well on gay women as straight, and 2.) that many states have been fighting to forbid gays from becoming parents at all. You can't have it both ways, so to speak.

As always, I belive the ultimate solution to societal problems is to provide the chance for a good education and opportunities to pursue "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

The "vast number" of Muslim immigrants into the US are indeed educated and decent folk, wanting the same things as everyone else. As with others, they have their fringe element which constitute a minority within the group, but get the majority of publicity. The "squeaky wheel gets the grease" applies to them as well.

As far as societal images, when the economy is buzzing merrily along and eveyone is doing well, then nobody cares who does what. When things get tight, then human nature seems to need to lash out at anything and everything as the projected cause of the economic difficulties. That's when the societal battles tend to get vicious, because one kind of frustration (economic) feeds discrimination and separatism. While it may not be "right," it does happen in our imperfect, human world.

Procreation for the sake of creating a national impediment to any expansion of Islam seems ridiculous. The same holds true for selective manufacturing of "designer kids." Children as commodities to be farmed and harvested is repugnant to me.

An old boss of mine used to have a sign behind his desk that said, "There is no such thing as a fully-funded problem." A better economy brings with it less stress, more tolerance and peaceful resolution to many things.

I am sure that most Muslims are good, hard working, God fearing people. The problem as I see it (Don't ask me for a solution) is as follows. I think that in time, a very long time, we could have Muslims who want to be Americans. But, how do we get them to give up their God or their religion? That is the fly in the ointment. With good Muslims as with good Christians and with good Jews, we all want to do what is good with God. Good Muslims I presume follow the Koran and the several Hadith. If they do, they believe that all of the earth is to be Muslim and it is the duty of every good Muslim to bring this about. (Somebody will chime in and say that this is untrue. That Muslims are peace loving people. There is a word for that. Taqiyya. It's kind of like "Of course I'll respect you in the morning.) I didn't say that Muslims are violent. I have been studying this issue for years. I do not know the solution. I think that we are doing things wrong. Instead of encouraging Muslims to adapt to our culture, we are going out of our way to help them to not become Americans. I have no wish against Muslims. I am just pointing out some facts salient to the line of the thread. With a little luck, I will be gone from this Earth before we learn if we were right or wrong.

I think that this makes the numbers mean more.

Yoda

The naïveté of the statement, “As always, I believe the ultimate solution to societal problems is to provide the chance for a good education and opportunities to pursue "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." is impossible to comprehend unless you accept that the person making the statement lives in a Panglossian world.

To understand how out of touch with reality that statement is, l look at the four most educated, tolerant and inclusive countries in the ‘Muslim world’ in 1960 and see how the impact of good education and the opportunity to life and all its freedoms panned out in these countries. Look at Egypt, Iran, Lebanon and Turkey and tell me where good education has increased the opportunity to pursue ‘Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.’ Then tell me if the support of terrorism or actual terrorism has gone up or down. Then tell me how education, tolerance, respect for individual rights, women's rights, etc. have done in these four countries.

After you have done this, then explain the reality of the statement, "The "vast number" of Muslim immigrants into the US are indeed educated and decent folk, wanting the same things as everyone else. As with others, they have their fringe element which constitute a minority within the group, but get the majority of publicity. The "squeaky wheel gets the grease" applies to them as well."

I say again that the demographic numbers are honest and not overstated, the consequences of an increasing Muslim population are frightening and should we ever have a Muslim majority, our rights, as we now understand them would be gone.

Just because we're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to conquer us.

Yoda

A member of the loyal opposition