Originally Posted by dklassen

Making his case in the most dire terms, President Barack Obama said that "if Congress does not quickly pass an economic stimulus package, the nation will slip into a crisis so deep that "we may be unable to reverse it."

What a disgraceful self serving lie.

The last time I saw such a performance, it was Robert Preston stating, "There's trouble in River City...."

And they fell for it.

including today's market sell off after Gaithersburg's long awaited plan to turn the finances around is...OJT by ALL the newbies.
It is always easier to do the job from afar...comment why things don't work when one does not have the wheel....however, once in the shoes...they ALL have to learn what it is they cannot do. And what happens when they do what.

It is sort of like a pie pan full of marbles and then pushing one more in...of course it will go in....after another one some where else pops out. They are learning...not so quickly...it is easy to say put in the marbles...where or how many come out is not so easy.

Remember when throwing billions at the problems used to at least generate some positives? Now they are throwing trillions with no result.

Maybe....IF....and WHEN...any of the money ever gets to we the people then maybe there will be an impact.....MAYBE....

Until then, just watch 'em pushing in the $$$$$$$ (marbles) and hoping for the best.

What is the next order of magnitude after trillion????

BTK

Originally Posted by Guest

including today's market sell off after Gaithersburg's long awaited plan to turn the finances around is...OJT by ALL the newbies.
It is always easier to do the job from afar...comment why things don't work when one does not have the wheel....however, once in the shoes...they ALL have to learn what it is they cannot do. And what happens when they do what.

It is sort of like a pie pan full of marbles and then pushing one more in...of course it will go in....after another one some where else pops out. They are learning...not so quickly...it is easy to say put in the marbles...where or how many come out is not so easy.

Remember when throwing billions at the problems used to at least generate some positives? Now they are throwing trillions with no result.

Maybe....IF....and WHEN...any of the money ever gets to we the people then maybe there will be an impact.....MAYBE....

Until then, just watch 'em pushing in the $$$$$$$ (marbles) and hoping for the best.

What is the next order of magnitude after trillion????

BTK

a worthless dollar.

I agree that there is no guarantee that the stimulus package will work. But after doing much reading, its clear that all the economic gurus and experts say there must be one or things could be much, much worse. And most of them want more money thrown in the pot than was done. I doubt that they're even telling us how bad things really are, because it would cause widespread panic. The economic hole we are in is so deep, I don't know if there is a shovel big enough to get us out. It may just take time for the pendulum to swing the other way. But at this point, I think the new administration is doing the best it can, give the ball of wax it inherited.

When Jimmy Carter left office we had 10% or higher unemployment, double digit inflation, 18% + mortgage rates, gas lines, a bank bail out or two, declining military, etc, etc, etc.

No multi-trillion dollar pork package was needed to fix it. Reagan cut taxes among other things and the economy came back rather quickly.

1. The government didn't inherit this ball of wax, they caused it.
2. They say the worst economy since the great depression and the only way to fix it is massive spending. Big Fat Lie.
3. Wide spread panic? Obama is doing everything he can to cause wide spread panic. That's the only way they will get their money and thus a private sector take over.
4. The American people are being scammed.
5. They will come back for more money when this doesn't work.
6. When the economy does come back... in spite of what they are doing make no mistake about it, they will come after our tax $$ in a big way.
7. People better wake up and start cleaning house the next election cycles and that includes Obama and his crew.

Let us not jump to judement here, rather let us begin studying the Chinese, Japanese, or worse yet Russian languages because when one of these countries or another buys our debt and calls for it to be paid.........we are behind the eight ball for sure. The Obama nation and it's ring leaders Pelosi and Reid have sabotaged the American people beyond what we could have lost in a real war, and it was done to us without one casualty. I only ask one question.......how many Democrats even bothered to read the bill before passing it yesterday so that Princess Pelosi could jet across the Atlantic to see the Pope?

The level of dishonestly, hypocrisy, incompetence and irresponsibility in congress is absolutely mind boggling. What's even more mind boggling is we sit back as a nation and let them do it and in many cases with blessings from those who seek to be ruled.

Originally Posted by Taj44

I agree that there is no guarantee that the stimulus package will work. But after doing much reading, its clear that all the economic gurus and experts say there must be one or things could be much, much worse. And most of them want more money thrown in the pot than was done. I doubt that they're even telling us how bad things really are, because it would cause widespread panic. The economic hole we are in is so deep, I don't know if there is a shovel big enough to get us out. It may just take time for the pendulum to swing the other way. But at this point, I think the new administration is doing the best it can, give the ball of wax it inherited.

TAJ...there are hundreds of economists who feel just the opposite, but for arguements sake, let us assume that we did in fact need a stimulus package.

I dont think the unread bill just passed is a stimulus bill...it is a spending bill and there is a big difference !!!

For example just read something that indicates that Robert Rector, a senior research fellow at Heritage Foundation and an important part of President Clinton's team and a recognized expert on poverty says this "stimulus" bill will kill all the welfare reform that was attempted by Clinton and he says now the more folks that states put of welfare the more welfare money they will get, something that Clinton was trying to reverse.

He claims that President Obama neglected to tell us that ONE THIRD of the money in this bill is for welfare. Interesting read !!

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Politics/D...aspx?id=418786

With so many people out of work, and no jobs available, I don't see welfare as a bad thing.

Originally Posted by Taj44

With so many people out of work, and no jobs available, I don't see welfare as a bad thing.

From what I have read it is not a matter of welfare in itself....it is the creation of a WELFARE STATE...in that the more a state spends the more they can get. The reading I have seen indicates that President Clinton was all for welfare but did not want to create a WELFARE STATE !

I believe there should be help of some form FOR THOSE WHO TRULY NEED IT....VS those who know well how to use the system for self indulgence....like a family on food stamps still managing to buy cigarettes and booze.

In our current age of entitlement it the hand outs are ecpected and abused.

Most of the programs have very weak, ambiguous threshold qualifications and follow up, hence abuse and longevity in the program.

Use some of the funding to provide JOBS to people to administer the billions being tossed into the wind.....nah that makes too much sense.

There should be an expectation of some sort of work to be done to get the benefit like the old WPA.....why not?

BTK

Originally Posted by Guest

I believe there should be help of some form FOR THOSE WHO TRULY NEED IT....VS those who know well how to use the system for self indulgence....like a family on food stamps still managing to buy cigarettes and booze.

In our current age of entitlement it the hand outs are ecpected and abused.

Most of the programs have very weak, ambiguous threshold qualifications and follow up, hence abuse and longevity in the program.

Use some of the funding to provide JOBS to people to administer the billions being tossed into the wind.....nah that makes too much sense.

There should be an expectation of some sort of work to be done to get the benefit like the old WPA.....why not?BTK

Great question. While there are likely more people than not that do genuinely need assistance, as is usually the case those that abuse the system tend to color the majority that do not.
I am a great fan of doing at least SOME kind of work in exchange for public assistance. Those of able mind and body could provide a plethora of services that communities are in dire need of, perhaps decreasing the cost of state and local governments. I am not sure of all the reasons something like this is put in place, but I suspect it has a lot to do with generations of families having been raised with a sense of entitlement and some simply knowing no other way. If you are never taught or shown anything different it tremendously lessens the odds of breaking out of the cycle.
We as a nation have tolerated/allowed this to become what it is, our complacency as the programs grew and generations 3 and 4 joined the fray is certainly a culprit. We allowed our lawmakers on BOTH sides of the isle to continue with it as business as usual. Question is...will we demand and receive something different?

I'm not the best at saying things, but I'd like to add something to this. Our company at home tried to help some of the needy each Christmas with a big project they developed. When you work with something like that, you see it all. I agree with those who have problems with people on welfare still buying their cigarettes, magazines, booze, or continue to have a baby every 9 months. Some even have late model cars in the drive. It shouldn't be allowed to happen in the system. Another thing we saw that I have a very real problem with is the way the welfare system appeared to work then (it could have changed by now). One lady we helped, did not qualify for any assistance from the welfare system because she had a minimum wage part-time job. She had been married and had 2 small children. He did a disappearing act on them. She was going to school to try a get a decent paying job.
Why can't the system help those who are trying to help themselves?

Originally Posted by dillywho

I'm not the best at saying things, but I'd like to add something to this. Our company at home tried to help some of the needy each Christmas with a big project they developed. When you work with something like that, you see it all. I agree with those who have problems with people on welfare still buying their cigarettes, magazines, booze, or continue to have a baby every 9 months. Some even have late model cars in the drive. It shouldn't be allowed to happen in the system. Another thing we saw that I have a very real problem with is the way the welfare system appeared to work then (it could have changed by now). One lady we helped, did not qualify for any assistance from the welfare system because she had a minimum wage part-time job. She had been married and had 2 small children. He did a disappearing act on them. She was going to school to try a get a decent paying job.
Why can't the system help those who are trying to help themselves?

I do not believe that ANYONE is against welfare for those who need it.

Presidents Reagan and Clinton both worked hard to enure that welfare was for those who should get it but encouraged folks to get to work.

The point is that this stimulus bill ENCOURAGES folks to go on welfare...the more on welfare the more the states get.

A link from today...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5733499.ece