begin to come forward?
We are rewarding incompetent banks and their managers, investment houses and their brokers, corporations and their execs and boards (automotive)....
the above got over $500 billion since the 4th quarter of last year.

Another $800 billion or what ever the number now on the way....to help fix more things the incompetents of some of the original hand outs + any new ones that have found their way to the trough.

Yesterday $75 billion to help those who can't/won't/don't care if they do pay for their mortgages....keep their houses. Now, those who should have not ever received a loan in the first place....not only can they stop paying their mortgage without risk of losing their home....the government is going to get the loan redone...lower the monthly payment and provide funds to make up the difference.

Any company worth it's salt will jump on the band wagon and write off everything but the kitchen sink because....bad news ain't that bad anymore.
They are all doing it. Plus some are getting some of the billions above and still cutting jobs.

Now in the current environment can anybody tell me why more people just will stop doing the right thing and stop paying for their home? Why would company's say things are better when they can get felief for lack luster performance and if they are really screwed up enough, the government will give them money for doing it.

The POTUS and HIS media darlings are content to peddle fear each and every day and evening....the more fearful you become the more you watch/listen to the media....and the more you wait to see what the POTUS will kick in today for the faltering masses.

Well so far there is one bell weather measure that is not impressed with all the government give aways, bail outs and sky is falling messages.....Wall Street.

At some point the terrorists will know if the hit us while we are floundering in the tide and winds of CHANGE.....they can bring this country to it's knees.

We are being tendered down the path being led to believe that we are going down the tubes when there is still over 90% gainfully employed....and more mortgages are being paid on time time by responsible citizens as they have always done....but all we hear about is the number unemployed....the number of foreclosures.....and just how bad things are and.....GONNA GET WORSE!!!!

How about a few words for the majority for a change of pace?

Things are worse than one year ago. Correct. As managed and manifested by those who run and communicate to our country. (5% gainfully employed dropped to 92%...foreclosures went up 50% now they may be as high as 5% of all mortgages. But the fact is the majority is .......THE MAJORITY!!!!

But they are not in the best interest of what is underway....are we?

CHANGE????

Only self fulfilling forecast of things are getting worse...easy to do worse. Takes creativity and leadership to make a difference.

CHANGE....yep that's what I have in my pocket!!!!

BTK

Originally Posted by Guest

begin to come forward?
We are rewarding incompetent banks and their managers, investment houses and their brokers, corporations and their execs and boards (automotive)....
the above got over $500 billion since the 4th quarter of last year.

Another $800 billion or what ever the number now on the way....to help fix more things the incompetents of some of the original hand outs + any new ones that have found their way to the trough.

Yesterday $75 billion to help those who can't/won't/don't care if they do pay for their mortgages....keep their houses. Now, those who should have not ever received a loan in the first place....not only can they stop paying their mortgage without risk of losing their home....the government is going to get the loan redone...lower the monthly payment and provide funds to make up the difference.

Any company worth it's salt will jump on the band wagon and write off everything but the kitchen sink because....bad news ain't that bad anymore.
They are all doing it. Plus some are getting some of the billions above and still cutting jobs.

Now in the current environment can anybody tell me why more people just will stop doing the right thing and stop paying for their home? Why would company's say things are better when they can get felief for lack luster performance and if they are really screwed up enough, the government will give them money for doing it.

The POTUS and HIS media darlings are content to peddle fear each and every day and evening....the more fearful you become the more you watch/listen to the media....and the more you wait to see what the POTUS will kick in today for the faltering masses.

Well so far there is one bell weather measure that is not impressed with all the government give aways, bail outs and sky is falling messages.....Wall Street.

At some point the terrorists will know if the hit us while we are floundering in the tide and winds of CHANGE.....they can bring this country to it's knees.

We are being tendered down the path being led to believe that we are going down the tubes when there is still over 90% gainfully employed....and more mortgages are being paid on time time by responsible citizens as they have always done....but all we hear about is the number unemployed....the number of foreclosures.....and just how bad things are and.....GONNA GET WORSE!!!!

How about a few words for the majority for a change of pace?

Things are worse than one year ago. Correct. As managed and manifested by those who run and communicate to our country. (5% gainfully employed dropped to 92%...foreclosures went up 50% now they may be as high as 5% of all mortgages. But the fact is the majority is .......THE MAJORITY!!!!

But they are not in the best interest of what is underway....are we?

CHANGE????

Only self fulfilling forecast of things are getting worse...easy to do worse. Takes creativity and leadership to make a difference.

CHANGE....yep that's what I have in my pocket!!!!

BTK

Sad, but as was predicted before the election, the incentives are going away. You, it seems, dont have to do a thing....government is going to make sure we are all equal and all that work and sweat just is not necessary !

The fear mongering is going to continue, as that is the plan....make sure you tell them how bad they have it !!!!

Bucco, you must have had only one book as a kid...Chicken Little.

Decisions are being made and plans put in place that few of us like but even fewer of us have come up with better alternatives. You're going to make yourself ill reading all sorts of threatening, shadowy intentions into every decision being made by the government in Washington.

Gee whiz...the sky is NOT falling!

Kahuna,
Talk about chicken little! Do you actually believe all the rhetoric coming from the white house saying that everything will be okay....if the government (ie. O's socialist agenda) takes control? If so, I have a bunch of bridges I'd like to divest myself of...
(I know, I shouldn't end a sentence with a preposition...)

The rewarding of achievement days are over at least during this presidency. We are moving ever deeper into an entitlement society and Obama is seizing the opportunity to make sure the have's pay for the have not's all in the name of stimulus. Trust me, it ain't over yet. There will be more billions and billions asked for and none of it will go the play by the rules folks.

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

Bucco, you must have had only one book as a kid...Chicken Little.

Decisions are being made and plans put in place that few of us like but even fewer of us have come up with better alternatives. You're going to make yourself ill reading all sorts of threatening, shadowy intentions into every decision being made by the government in Washington.

Gee whiz...the sky is NOT falling!

VK...we dont know each other thus we need to take each others words on a lot of things......I am NOT negative.

Fact is....you know how I felt during the primary and the campaign and THAT was negative.......I honestly thought I would be pleasantly surprised and sort of lose that negativity, but alas it has gotten worse. This is the most political WH in many many years...NOBODY has had so many 100% TOTAL political policies in place so fast and so blatantly while violating so many campaign promises as this current administration has in one month.

You keep talking about alternatives...VK..not my job to come up with them and guess what...the one alternative and the only one offered was not even offered...NOBODY read it but voted down party lines on it. I will live with decisions that I might not like but would love to hear them debated. This President keeps changing everything he said earlier. There is ZERO transparency and 100% politics. I will surely live with policies that I may not agree on 100% but what is happening now borders on total chaos. Did you have any idea what was in this bill ? I am actually afraid to read much about it anymore and find out, for example, how much money ACORN got.

I DO admit to reading shadowy intentions into much. As you know, and always dispute with me, I have read so much about our new Presidents background and training and shadowy past, that just is pretty natural. If my illness is cured by being wrong I will be happy, but nothing is being done thus far that even comes close to making me positive.


VK.../.will say it again...I hope I am wrong.....I will be happy to come back here if I even see a slither of change from this administration and promise to do that. You keep asking for alternatives....we elect these folks and instead of a debate on alternatives they ram through something that nobody likes nor feels comfortable with.

I know I sound like a "broken record" but give me a ray of the hope that was sold during the campaign (and will our President ever stop campaigning and spending $600,000 each and every time he fires up Air Force 1) and I will become very positive.

Originally Posted by Bucco

Sad, but as was predicted before the election, the incentives are going away. You, it seems, dont have to do a thing....government is going to make sure we are all equal and all that work and sweat just is not necessary !

The fear mongering is going to continue, as that is the plan....make sure you tell them how bad they have it !!!!

Fear mongering has been the Republicans strong suit for the last 8 years, including the McCain/Palin campaign, and I see it continues. Every one of you is so sure nothing President Obama does is going to work -- at all! Now that's fear mongering. Same thing at Giuliani putting 9/11 into every sentence.

Originally Posted by chelsea24

Fear mongering has been the Republicans strong suit for the last 8 years, including the McCain/Palin campaign, and I see it continues. Every one of you is so sure nothing President Obama does is going to work -- at all! Now that's fear mongering. Same thing at Giuliani putting 9/11 into every sentence.

Maybe they were correct !~ Just reading where Iran now has sufficient uranium for a nuclear bomb !!!!

You keep going back to the last administration and we are trying to move forward...isnt that the plan ? Catch up...the country has made the sharpest turn left ever !!!

announced by the POTUS yesterday is as close to a "sky is falling" scenario as one can imagine in a country where part of the America dream is to own one's own home. A country where most (yes even today at 93%!!!!!) have done and are doing it right. Hard work....sacrifice...buying only what we could afford....being loaned only what we could afford...and if one defaulted....THEY TOOK YOUR HOUSE!!!!!!

Now in that 7% of which many....too many...over bought because there was no requirement for them to meet standards most of us had to comply with...many who did not have the earning ability to make the home purchases they did...hence they default...way too many...when they should be losing their home which they did not earn nor were entitled to in the first place....they are going to get a financial pardon from a bleeding heart....discriminating government.

If half of those who are in default are in the category described above, why are they just not being turned out and foreclosing? That is what has been going on for years.

The incentive we have all inherited from our roots is to work to be able to afford one's own home. That time HONORED means of achievement is being trashed. It has been shown recently that of foreclose-able home loans that have been restructured to result in lower more affordable payments....over 60% resulted in repeated defaults at the new payment levels. And now the government is going to do the same thing for more of the same who will by demonstrated track record do no better than previously. They do not know any better...they did not have the ability nor the incentive to keep their obligation. So just exactly what is it that is going to CHANGE the demonstrated behavior? Absolutely nothing. About the same as giving alcoholics an unlimited debit card to the local liquor store.

Any red blooded American who has had to do it the right way either is or will soon be upset at this give away to the undeserved. Yes there is a recalibration under way. Just watch and observe how many people who are currently making mortgage payments do in fact stop doing so because there is a gravy train wiyh loop holes to drive a truck through providing them help.

Forget party affiliation. The mortgage bail out is not going to make the unmotivated, take advantage of the system, entitlement class do anything any differently. It is an insult to the hard working home owners of America.

Last week we got a pork filled bail out joke that has no way to track to increased employment or recovery.

This week we get a mortgage relief joke that slaps the face of most of us.

The achievement standards for the America we all helped create are being so watered down it is down right staggering. I was on the side of wait and see. But there is nothing to wait and see with this proposal....there will need to be more....and more money sent in that direction. Those who have their cars reposessed and their homes foreclosed have demonstrated time and again, they are repeated offenders. What is there to wait and see.

Let's see in recent weeks some have learned they get to keep more of their money by making honest mistakes on tax returns. And now they are finding they will be able to get help if they don't pay their mortgage. They are also learning that one can be rewarded for failure like the bank, investment and auto executives.

I take back everything I ever said about the new administration being able to affect CHANGE. Quite the contrary. CHANGE is well under way...but I sort of expected it would be for the better.

Commentary regarding it is too early to tell is not needed. Defending these actions is like trying to convince one that if we all bail fast enough we can stop the Titanic from going down.....

Worse to come? No doubt. What can be offered when these monumentally funded fiascos do not work....and they will not work!!!!

Have at it....

BTK

Originally Posted by Guest

announced by the POTUS yesterday is as close to a "sky is falling" scenario as one can imagine in a country where part of the America dream is to own one's own home. A country where most (yes even today at 93%!!!!!) have done and are doing it right. Hard work....sacrifice...buying only what we could afford....being loaned only what we could afford...and if one defaulted....THEY TOOK YOUR HOUSE!!!!!!

Now in that 7% of which many....too many...over bought because there was no requirement for them to meet standards most of us had to comply with...many who did not have the earning ability to make the home purchases they did...hence they default...way too many...when they should be losing their home which they did not earn nor were entitled to in the first place....they are going to get a financial pardon from a bleeding heart....discriminating government.

If half of those who are in default are in the category described above, why are they just not being turned out and foreclosing? That is what has been going on for years.

The incentive we have all inherited from our roots is to work to be able to afford one's own home. That time HONORED means of achievement is being trashed. It has been shown recently that of foreclose-able home loans that have been restructured to result in lower more affordable payments....over 60% resulted in repeated defaults at the new payment levels. And now the government is going to do the same thing for more of the same who will by demonstrated track record do no better than previously. They do not know any better...they did not have the ability nor the incentive to keep their obligation. So just exactly what is it that is going to CHANGE the demonstrated behavior? Absolutely nothing. About the same as giving alcoholics an unlimited debit card to the local liquor store.

Any red blooded American who has had to do it the right way either is or will soon be upset at this give away to the undeserved. Yes there is a recalibration under way. Just watch and observe how many people who are currently making mortgage payments do in fact stop doing so because there is a gravy train wiyh loop holes to drive a truck through providing them help.

Forget party affiliation. The mortgage bail out is not going to make the unmotivated, take advantage of the system, entitlement class do anything any differently. It is an insult to the hard working home owners of America.

Last week we got a pork filled bail out joke that has no way to track to increased employment or recovery.

This week we get a mortgage relief joke that slaps the face of most of us.

The achievement standards for the America we all helped create are being so watered down it is down right staggering. I was on the side of wait and see. But there is nothing to wait and see with this proposal....there will need to be more....and more money sent in that direction. Those who have their cars reposessed and their homes foreclosed have demonstrated time and again, they are repeated offenders. What is there to wait and see.

Let's see in recent weeks some have learned they get to keep more of their money by making honest mistakes on tax returns. And now they are finding they will be able to get help if they don't pay their mortgage. They are also learning that one can be rewarded for failure like the bank, investment and auto executives.

I take back everything I ever said about the new administration being able to affect CHANGE. Quite the contrary. CHANGE is well under way...but I sort of expected it would be for the better.

Commentary regarding it is too early to tell is not needed. Defending these actions is like trying to convince one that if we all bail fast enough we can stop the Titanic from going down.....

Worse to come? No doubt. What can be offered when these monumentally funded fiascos do not work....and they will not work!!!!

Have at it....

BTK

I see this plan as a blatant attack on anyone who works and tries to do the right thing in their life. We have now decided that the buyer of these homes are innocent...they really and truely thought they could buy a home with no income, and guess what..they can..you and I will pay it for them.

We appear to have turned the corner now totally, and so much quickly than I thought, to a society where there is no longer going to be any incentive to do anything....why waste the effort...those who said President Obama was going to buy them things may have been correct.

What we do not need right now in this country is another enabler and that is what President Obama is acting as in this situation.

I must be a fool. I own 3 homes and am making payments on time for the two with mortgages. I don't see anything in the plan to help people for doing the right thing. You may want to watch this video of Rick Santelli on CNBC filmed yesterday.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1039849853

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

Bucco, you must have had only one book as a kid...Chicken Little.

Decisions are being made and plans put in place that few of us like but even fewer of us have come up with better alternatives. You're going to make yourself ill reading all sorts of threatening, shadowy intentions into every decision being made by the government in Washington.

Gee whiz...the sky is NOT falling!

I recommend people DVR or tune in Fox News at 5 PM today to see The Glenn Beck program. Apparently he will describe a possible "Doomsday" scenerio we all may be facing in the not too distant future. Hopefully he is wrong. I believe, however, what is more wrong is to stick your head in the sand and say "it can't happen here". The shy may, indeed, be falling.

Also, I'm curious.... if anyone would have told you 2 yrs ago the Dow would drop below 7000 (which now looks possible) what would you have responded? Beck claims he predicted 2 years ago that the Dow would be 7500 in '09!!! ( I have not confirmed that he did predict that although he stated that on national TV today).

I'm confused. All of you would what? Put people in the streets?

I agree there is a percentage that really bought beyond their means, but there are also people that fell on hard times. My brother-in-law was one of them. He did not live or buy beyond his means. Worked for United Airlines for 26 years before he passed away. United had striped them of everything, lowered salaries, took away pension, etc. My husband had to bail him out. None of this was his doing. None of this was our doing, but we knew we had to help.

Just curious as to what you would do with all these "new" homeless people?

I have three friends as we speak that are in fear of losing their homes. And not one of them bought or lived beyond their means. All lost jobs and in one case, a catastrophic illness.

You should pray everyday that this does not happen to you. You want families with children on the street? Why not have them stay in your spare bedroom as you go out to play golf or sit playing cards in a Rec Center.

What will you do with these people???? Any solutions? Or just whining.

speaking for myself only, when I rail on the undeserved I am not targeting specific realities as you point out.
My issue is with the far too many that did very knowingly exploit the system. Will always exploit the system and when things go wrong are the first in line with their hand out. And our system unfortunately responds to them first and foremost as they have the ear and eye of the administration and the media.
The known repeated offenders. The group for the most part that ACORN is, with POTUS/Congress funding, front and center again lobbying for funding the exact group(s) that are part of the cause.
Using the harsh words of "put them out into the streets"...the undeserved milkers of the system....yes. At least then other programs that don't compromise the American Dream will be put in place. Yes, if they can not afford it they are not ENTITLED.....just like the rest of the 90% who earned it!

For the real needy, we hope they are all taken care of in some acceptable form of help...but they are not the priority of the current proposed programs.

BTK

My head is just spinning with all this. We are being taken to the cleaners on this deal and there’s nothing that can be done until the 2010 elections. I think the Dems are going to have a rude awaking when the votes come in.

Yes, some people have fallen on hard times due to no fault of their own. Even some who did play by the rules and I feel bad for them. I've been there myself.

The question is, does the government have the right to forcibly take from others and distribute to those whom they deem worthy and in many cases are unworthy? That's not freedom, that's socialism.