It is remarkable to watch Fox news, especially Glen Beck, claim the outrageously false numbers of protesters at the anti-Obama march on September 12. As anyone who knows the size of the National Mall and has attended marches and rallies, it's pretty clear that based on photos and videos, the crowd extended from the base of the Capitol to about 9th St. That's anywhere from 50-100 thousand- a pretty paltry sum for claims of "1.2-2 million." Similarly, those numbers hold for a "2.5 hour" march from the Ellipse, down Pennsylvania Ave, and onto the Mall at 4th St.
To make matters of falsification even more offensive, no one seems to be able to cite the "University" that supposedly analyzed the crowd size, and Fox was even caught showing a photo from a rally 10 years ago. I attended the "March on Washington" for GLBT rights in 1993, where the crowd was estimated by organizers at 1.5 million, and by the Park Service at 1.2 million. The Mall was packed from the Capitol all the way to the Reflecting Pond in front of the Lincloln Memorial- a distance of 1 1/2 miles. The March was so long, that it was still going on after six hours, and even then, most peole had simply given up on the walk, since the numbers had doubled back over themselves.

So why is it so important for the fringe right organziers to claim huge numbers? I'm not saying all the marchers were fringe. Obviously, many believe deeply in their "cause" as much as we did against the Bush Cabal. In fact, we even use the same words- Nazi, Fascists, etc.
When McCarthy was asked "Have you no shame sir!?" At least there was the wiggle room of him actually responding "No, I don't." The lies about the size of this past weekend's rally, and Fox's seemingly unending propagandizing a patently phony number remind me of an episode of "Intervention" in which the subject is in such denial that a "truth squad" of loved ones must intervene.
No one denies that there is a large, energized base of people who are anti-anything that is not their version of what America "is." But why the absolute need to exaggerate, distort and lie about it? Could it be that, in reality, the number of malcontents pretty closely matches the same numbers that thought McCain was too liberal, let alone Obama? In other words, in this Democracy, a minority of the electorate.

Hmm...

P.S. Did you see tonight where Bush was quoted as saying Palin was totally unqualified for running for VP? He asked who she was. "The Governeor of Guam?" I'll let you Palin-Bush lovers choose which one you'll cannabilze on that one. lol

I am encouraged that you Watch Fox News and Glen Beck. At least you are exposed to the truth, whether or not you chose to ignore it is up to you.

Yoda

Originally Posted by Yoda

I am encouraged that you Watch Fox News and Glen Beck. At least you are exposed to the truth, whether or not you chose to ignore it is up to you.

Yoda

.

Originally Posted by ptownrob

It is remarkable to watch Fox news, especially Glen Beck, claim the outrageously false numbers of protesters at the anti-Obama march on September 12. As anyone who knows the size of the National Mall and has attended marches and rallies, it's pretty clear that based on photos and videos, the crowd extended from the base of the Capitol to about 9th St. That's anywhere from 50-100 thousand- a pretty paltry sum for claims of "1.2-2 million." Similarly, those numbers hold for a "2.5 hour" march from the Ellipse, down Pennsylvania Ave, and onto the Mall at 4th St.
To make matters of falsification even more offensive, no one seems to be able to cite the "University" that supposedly analyzed the crowd size, and Fox was even caught showing a photo from a rally 10 years ago. I attended the "March on Washington" for GLBT rights in 1993, where the crowd was estimated by organizers at 1.5 million, and by the Park Service at 1.2 million. The Mall was packed from the Capitol all the way to the Reflecting Pond in front of the Lincloln Memorial- a distance of 1 1/2 miles. The March was so long, that it was still going on after six hours, and even then, most peole had simply given up on the walk, since the numbers had doubled back over themselves.

So why is it so important for the fringe right organziers to claim huge numbers? I'm not saying all the marchers were fringe. Obviously, many believe deeply in their "cause" as much as we did against the Bush Cabal. In fact, we even use the same words- Nazi, Fascists, etc.
When McCarthy was asked "Have you no shame sir!?" At least there was the wiggle room of him actually responding "No, I don't." The lies about the size of this past weekend's rally, and Fox's seemingly unending propagandizing a patently phony number remind me of an episode of "Intervention" in which the subject is in such denial that a "truth squad" of loved ones must intervene.
No one denies that there is a large, energized base of people who are anti-anything that is not their version of what America "is." But why the absolute need to exaggerate, distort and lie about it? Could it be that, in reality, the number of malcontents pretty closely matches the same numbers that thought McCain was too liberal, let alone Obama? In other words, in this Democracy, a minority of the electorate.

Hmm...

P.S. Did you see tonight where Bush was quoted as saying Palin was totally unqualified for running for VP? He asked who she was. "The Governeor of Guam?" I'll let you Palin-Bush lovers choose which one you'll cannabilze on that one. lol

WOW...impressive...you got Bush, Palin, Beck, McCain, McCarthy, Nazi's. Fascists, AND Fox News all in one post !!!

ptownrob, while you suggest "no one seems to be able to cite the university" who gave the estimate, cursory research suggests differently. That would be the University of Illinois, according to Beck, that made the estimate. You must have missed it. Take your pick from the link below that includes Beck's representation that U. of Illinois did a crowd estimate. It would appear the source, one that you may suggest is bias, gives a fairly objective assessment of the issue.

From my experience, your own estimate is fairly accurate although I would lean more toward the high side of center you suggest.

Thank you for acknowledging that the rally and march actually took place.

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&gl=us

Originally Posted by ptownrob

Hmm...P.S. Did you see tonight where Bush was quoted as saying Palin was totally unqualified for running for VP? He asked who she was. "The Governeor of Guam?" I'll let you Palin-Bush lovers choose which one you'll cannabilze on that one. lol

It would appear your Bush bashing postscript assertion would have to be classified as "unverifiable" at this time. According to other sources including the ever fair and balanced CNN, the Bush camp has made adamant denials of the alleged quotes you cite. CNN actually offers a compelling rebuttal to the fact pattern ascribed to your source whoever that may be.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...s-book-claims/

be the messenger. It also seems to not matter if they are correct or not....just hammer the target.
Most of what the targeted messengers deliver are easily verified with minimal research. For example when Beck lit the fire under the green jobs czar...the targeters went after Beck. All one had to do was google the guys name and page after page of verification of what Beck was presenting was easily available.

As has been born out in this forum for quite some time, and in other forums I participate in and among staunch partisan family and friends...the ever present reluctance for the opposition to stick with presenting facts, figures or justifications. We all understand it is much easier to remain at the emotional level as there are no bounds or accountability. Much easier!

btk

The real question is did Obama "lie"?? Forget what Wilson said, forget the slaming being done by the Democrats to Wilson. Did Obama lie. If he did that is what is important and is being lost in all the hoopla. As I understand it Wilson is on the key committee's on the subject of illegals qualifying for the healthplan and on each vote the Demoncrats voted to kill any enforcement against the illegals using the health care program. In his speech Obama said they could not qualify for healthcare BUT if there is no enforcement then there is nothing to stop them and it would be available to them..
Net: Wilson did not say something that was incorrect and on principle Obama lied. The rest is just an attempt to fry a man who had the courage to call out the truth and force the committee's to put the enforcement back in. The American's should recognize him as a hero. We need more in Gov't to call the word of those, (Republican or Democrat) who lie to the American people.

When I saw the title, "You Lie!", I thought it was about President Carter. My bad. Also, if you pass a law and don't enforce it, it is not a law. Sorta like "don't ask, don't tell".

is in word smithing. They are experts at being able to say something like illegals are not covered....and that is what the bill may well state. But much of the discussion for many weeks on the subject...there is nothing in the law that prohibits them from applying. Back then there was no proof of citizenship in the bill. There were words like, nothing in the bill would/could stop an application....as usual grounds for rejection were all but non existent....it was also discussed they may well be entitled depending on their income level, supplemental help to pay for it.

So they are all right. Until and unless there is comprehensive language the average citizen can understand, the lawmakers WILL walk the side of ambiguity...so they can deliver for their constituents....to a politician the magic is to be able to say yes or no to any question asked....usually the same question.

If any believe illegals will be excluded you no doubt also believe the health care reform will not cost one dime!!

btk

All Wilson did was tell the truth

It will be interesting hear some of the spin on this board when the dems get their clocks cleaned next year. Guess it won't matter how many were there on 9/12. The writing is on the wall.

Funny how some won't believe Beck or Limbaugh but put complete trust in crooked politicians.

You have to admit there is a lot of humor in this..Here we have one of the worse Presidents (Carter) in the history of the US trying to shore up the reputation of a President (Obama) who has numbers dropping at the speed of light and somehow this is to be a good demoncratic strategy. This is a Saturday Night live skit if it wasn't so pathetic. Maybe it being so pathetic would qualify it for a SNL skit.

REH- Definitely a SNL Skit. I love Carter Dearly, but he does have a way of being rather "blunt" sometimes. Does anyone remember the SNL skit of Akroyd doing the 50' Colossal Carter cleaning up 3 Mile Island? LMAO!!

DKL- It's all about the economy- If it's back by 2010, not so sure there will be any uprising. BTW, the Baucus Senate health care bill is a disgrace- All good Democrats should call Sen. Nelson & others to reject it.

All- Did Obama lie? No. Does the definition need tightening? For those of you who are anti-immigration, yes. But again, a majority of Americans are more tolerant about undocumented workers than the posters to this board. You guys seem unwilling to differentiate between undocumented (migrant) workers and illegal immigrants. Millions who work here & whose work is needed here have no desire to become US citizens. $6/hour picking weeds is 100x more than one could make in the poor contries of the world. That's why we don't have an illegal problem with Canada, our other neighbor.

If U.S. Corps weren't so greedy, we could've moved millions of jobs to Mexico instead of China and solved a multitude of problems- but hey, we've got to pay those CEO's millions of $ for something!

BTW- Cost of developing a new oil field or bringing a new drug to market $1.5billion- Sounds like a huge investment doesn't it? But then consider that ONE oil exec or health care exec make $130 million a year & suddenly either one ystem of costs or the other is way out of whack for true capitalism. I'll let you decide!

CABO- Good point about the book quote!! Wonder how the actual truth will ever be known? Maybe Karl Rove will tell the truth to us on FOX!

Bucco- Thanks for the nod to my inclusiveness. Did you see Jon Stewart roast ACORN the other day. All good people are outraged- don't need a (C) next to your name for that!!

It appears that as wrong and rude Joe Wilson was during the President's remarks, he may have "known" something....

"President Obama said this week that his health care plan won't cover illegal immigrants, but argued that's all the more reason to legalize them and ensure they eventually do get coverage."

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009...cube_position1