Is there ever any logic to liberalism? Uh.. no.

Originally Posted by chelsea24

We should have learned that from the Bush Administration!

Chelsea24, please please please!!! Stop using Bush in every thing you say. Take this personally if you need to but please stop. Anywhere but here you would be run out of town on a rail for 5th grade debating tactics. I have read other things that you write and you seem to bee quite intelligent. Then, when you feel weak, you always bring up Bush. Nobody cares but you and your ilk. He is no longer President. He is no longer relevant. Obama is President. Obama is the leader of the free world. Obama is relevant. DON'T YOU GET THAT?

Respectfully, and I mean it.

Yoda

Ain't it a bitch when you want to forget all about someone that didn't turn out like you thought it should and no one will let that happen? Boy I hate when that happens!

Keep it up Chelsea. Gives that ole "mutual admiration society" that hangs out here something to keep them awake. It's no fun fighting with each other.

How about using some of that Obama/party energy that seems pent up and, as requested, far to often, come forth with some really relevant information and share with those asking why certain programs are supported by y'all.

Some how that ALWAYS appears irrelevant, since it NEVER HAPPENS. Defend the man...yes. Defend the party...absolutely. Bash Bush....like going to church on Sunday (and the other 6 days!!). But hear why you support one program/proposal or another.....and all becomes eerily quiet.
Now just what is it that inhibits adressing a CURRENT issue?

btk

Originally Posted by cashman

Bush got rid of the President of Iraq as he promised and said "mission accomplished" then he said he would continue to fight the terrorists which he did. Your "trip over his nose" statement is a PARTISAN
statement without any logic to it.

Didn't you get the memo? It ain't politically correct to say "terrorists" anymore. For the life of me, I can't remember what is politically correct, tho. "Terrorists" works for me and is not a slam by me to Muslims. Timothy McVey was not Muslim and he committed an act of pure terrorism. (By the way, my son was supposed to be in Oklahoma City that day at that buiding but the guy he was to be escorting didn't show.)

Originally Posted by Yoda

Chelsea24, please please please!!! Stop using Bush in every thing you say. Take this personally if you need to but please stop. Anywhere but here you would be run out of town on a rail for 5th grade debating tactics. I have read other things that you write and you seem to bee quite intelligent. Then, when you feel weak, you always bring up Bush. Nobody cares but you and your ilk. He is no longer President. He is no longer relevant. Obama is President. Obama is the leader of the free world. Obama is relevant. DON'T YOU GET THAT?

Respectfully, and I mean it.

Yoda

Yoda, I respectfully disagree with you. Our past has always been and will always be relevant. What is it they say? Something like, "Those that do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it."

It is always important to look backwards at past Presidents, past battles, past empires and so on... this is the only way to learn and move forward. History cannot be swept under the carpet. Past mistakes will always come back to bite you. So, I will mention Bush and Reagan and Clinton and Lincoln and whoever. They are part of the fabric that has made up the United States of America. Good or bad... they are interwoven. Again, I say, both the good and bad. Would you throw away the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence? After all, they are just old pieces of paper. Aren't they still relevant in how we see things and make judgments?

As we evolve as a society, so many of the good things are falling by the wayside, like clear logic, simplicity, respect, caring for our fellow man and just good old-fashioned courtesy. And above all, these are the things we should hang on to. Hold on very tight... because they breath life into our humanity.

BTW, I don't feel weak at all and I'm not sure what my "ilk" is, but I won't apologize for my beliefs as I wouldn't expect you to apologize for yours. So, you can call me all the names you all want to and make snide remarks, if it makes you feel better -- but it doesn't, for one minute, shake my faith and belief in President Obama. They are my personal beliefs and I have a right to them.

I think the point is, it's useless to keep bashing Bush when we have a current President tying to systematically dismantle everything that made America great.

You drop snide remarks here and there about Bush but say absolutely nothing about the one's most culpable for putting us in this mess.

Congress ran the country the last two years and 8 months. Democrats. They also controlled Fannie and Freddie who in fact got the ball rolling with the economic down turn.

When Bush raised hell about it the Democrats did nothing and in fact blocked every action Bush wanted to take to avoid this mess. Yet you totally ignore the facts and blame Bush for everything.

You say nothing about that at all and continually turn back to Bush as though the liberals in congress have absolutely nothing to do with any of it when in fact they had a lot to do with most of it.

Yep, Bush was the President, but who passes the laws? Who spends the money? who votes of all of it? Answer. CONGRESS. Who's been running congress for almost the last three years?

NOT BUSH.

Originally Posted by chelsea24

Yoda, I respectfully disagree with you. Our past has always been and will always be relevant. What is it they say? Something like, "Those that do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it."

It is always important to look backwards at past Presidents, past battles, past empires and so on... this is the only way to learn and move forward. History cannot be swept under the carpet. Past mistakes will always come back to bite you. So, I will mention Bush and Reagan and Clinton and Lincoln and whoever. They are part of the fabric that has made up the United States of America. Good or bad... they are interwoven. Again, I say, both the good and bad. Would you throw away the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence? After all, they are just old pieces of paper. Aren't they still relevant in how we see things and make judgments?

As we evolve as a society, so many of the good things are falling by the wayside, like clear logic, simplicity, respect, caring for our fellow man and just good old-fashioned courtesy. And above all, these are the things we should hang on to. Hold on very tight... because they breath life into our humanity.

BTW, I don't feel weak at all and I'm not sure what my "ilk" is, but I won't apologize for my beliefs as I wouldn't expect you to apologize for yours. So, you can call me all the names you all want to and make snide remarks, if it makes you feel better -- but it doesn't, for one minute, shake my faith and belief in President Obama. They are my personal beliefs and I have a right to them.

This is JUST FROM THIS MORNINGS HEADLINES...it does not include any discussion about how TARP helped the financial situation but the "stimulus" bill was basically an unread pork bill, which our President promised would NEVER happen

"It is lovely to feature in other people's dreams. The problem comes when they wake up. Barack Obama is an eloquent, brainy and likeable man with a fascinating biography. He is not George Bush. Those are great qualities. But they are not enough to lead America, let alone the world. "

"The man who has run nothing more demanding than the Harvard Law Review is beginning to look out of his depth in the world's top job. His credibility is seeping away, and it will require concrete achievements rather than more soaring oratory to recover it."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...his-depth.html

This is from a very well respected man who writes for the Economist and was anything but a fan of Bush as you can tell from the first quote.

THEN, there are a number of stories connected to the ACORN group and how the media just plain ignored it until they could not any longer. I assure you that there is MUCH MUCH MORE to come on this and once they "follow the money" it will really get interesting. Why do you think THIS President was asked about this group that has been around since the 70's ?

Then we have the President appearing on ABC having a bit of "discussion" with George Stephanopoulos and denying the "tax" to be levied with the health proposal he is hawking...

"President Obama didn't make much news on his round of five Sunday talk shows yesterday, with one notable exception. The President revealed a great deal about his philosophy of government and how he defines a tax increase. It turns out the President thinks a health-care tax is not a tax if he thinks the tax is for your own good."

He has mislead, and misinformed so much on this debate on health care, which is not to say that those opposed have not done so also, but he is the President and it is HIS proposal, and HE ran on a platform that flies in the face of his actions !


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...googlenews_wsj

I actually agree with much of what you say in your post, but how can you continue to support a man who is doing what he is doing which is NOT what he is saying ?

I think that you were correct in finding fault with him during the primary and while you are correct you have the right to your feelings, they changed dramatically and continue despite so much evidence that this President is everything you hated about Bush PLUS !

I make no excuses for Bush and recognize the outstanding work he did for the US. There is always a group who follow like sheep the naysayer without developing an independent thought. First: I believe the need to get Sadam out of power was based on his potential for controlling the world's oil. He tried to invade his neighbor and it would have been little time before he, Iran, Syria and the rest of the criminal mideast would control the majority of oil reserves. The same ones who are critical of Bush drive to the local station and fill up without paying 10.00 a gallon once a significant source of oil has been cut off. Second: The US has not been under attack since 9/11. Someone had to set up security and it was on Bush's watch that it had to be done. He did it.!! The same ones who fly to NY City and tour with a feeling of security owe it to Bush. Third: The free elections in Iraq = Bush's actions,
Fourth: Bringing Afganistan under control = Bush. Fifth: A strong CIA, FBI, NSA,etc. were the results of Bush's administration. I could go on but I will spare the reader. When I hear the ones who take shots at Bush becuase it is a popular sport on the part of the Liberal's and are entitled to their First Amendment rights it is sad they don't take the same time to look back and understand they have these rights because of strong Presidents like Bush.
If I apply my 1st Amendment Rights I would remind them that we have now have a weaker CIA, FBI, NSA, a Gov't trying to turn the US into a socialistic country.etc. which makes our secuirty a little weaker, we have developed enemies in the Eastern Europe, the identifying of potential terrorists is the results of Bush policies and not the current Administration. We have crooked charity organizations, (ACORN) and they would continue to florish if it were not for someone like Beck, (this will really upset some Liberals for saying that), we have people in Gov't who are Czars that have never been vetted and it turned up one avowed Communist.
I will not go on since it will not convince the Liberals who don't want to be
open minded and the ones who do will see the light sooner rather than later.

Remember the story of CLinton walking in the park where he met an old man with two puppies so young their eyes were still closed.

The old man said they were Democrat puppies.

Bill said tomorrow I will bring Hillary to see these puppies.

The next day Bill and Hillary met the old man who said here are my two Republican puppies.

Bill said wait a minute yesterday you said they were Democrat puppies.

The old man said yes but today they opened their eyes.

As I read these threads, it is clear that the Republicans and the Democrats are to blame for everything. As an Independent, I am in the clear. As my dad used to say, " The country has been going to hell since I was a kid( born in 1908) and we are still here." He is gone now, but it would seem we are still going to hell but we are still here. Step back everybody, would you like to live in another country. This is the best country in the world. We have lived through idiot Republicans and Democrats. We will live thru many more.

particular point in history is that we have always had the ability to get up from the lows dealt to us as we were a growing strong, proud citizenry ready to fight and do what ever it took to defeat what ever it was at hand.

I am not so sure we have the same cross section of people or beliefs anymore.
I cringe at the thought there are way too many in this era of entitlement who will wait and rely on the government to lead us out of the quagmire.....I personally do not believe we have that caliber of leadership in command anywhere in Washington, beginning with Obama. Past wars and andversity were not won or defeated by trying to make nice with all those who have vowed to destroy us.

Time is not on our side....it is with our adversaries and they know it.

btk