[sounding]

Originally Posted by mtdjed

Originally Posted by Normal
it’s all about cause. There was very little co2 emitted into the atmosphere during the periods prior to 1850.



Both of the above could be potentially true.

CO2 is a naturally produced Gas. Humans and animals emit it. Plants absorb it and store it. Dead plants evolve into fuels such as oils, gas, and coal and continue storage. Some of the CO2 remains in the air and is considered a greenhouse gas. Greenhouse gases allowed the earth to heat up and helped warm up the earth to allow temperatures to develop our current environment. I think most of us agree to that.
The difference is what happens then and is related to man's usage of those fuels storing the CO2 from the past and releasing it into the atmosphere.

My question to participants of the discussion is, Any disagreement to the above"?

These are all side issues. The main issue is ... there is no proof man-made CO2 harms our climate, when in fact it helps our climate in every way. As I have repeatedly shown, the data shows that all forms of severe weather are decreasing during global warming - just like it has done is the distant past. Anyone can claim anything, but only trend data can show reality. For more details, using government data, please attend the Weather Club.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by mtdjed

Originally Posted by Normal
it’s all about cause. There was very little co2 emitted into the atmosphere during the periods prior to 1850.



Both of the above could be potentially true.

CO2 is a naturally produced Gas. Humans and animals emit it. Plants absorb it and store it. Dead plants evolve into fuels such as oils, gas, and coal and continue storage. Some of the CO2 remains in the air and is considered a greenhouse gas. Greenhouse gases allowed the earth to heat up and helped warm up the earth to allow temperatures to develop our current environment. I think most of us agree to that.
The difference is what happens then and is related to man's usage of those fuels storing the CO2 from the past and releasing it into the atmosphere.

My question to participants of the discussion is, Any disagreement to the above"?

I agree with that MUCH. If that were the total EXTENT of it, there would be NO need for me to say anything more about the subject.......and maybe people would like to continue to bathe in no-nothing-ism. If the earth had no people or those people had YET to invent the internal combustion engine or build factories without smog scrubbers, that would be the end of the story. I invite anyone, anyone to look at a graph of world population.....you immediately see the problem (I believe it is 8 billion people---whatever). The point is the graph rapidly bends upward. So, then more people means more CO2 (and other pollutants) which in the last 15 years have caused the WHOLE EARTH to HEAT up too much. The mechanism is the heat bounces back from the upper atmosphere from the layer formed by the CO2. The excess CO2 also goes into the oceans where it has killed coral - which is a FACT, NOT MY OPINION. It has worldwide glaciers to melt BIG TIME. Again, a fact, not my imagination. Right here in Florida we are setting ALL-TIME HEAT records. Scientists talk about animal species moving north in the northern hemisphere (and people also). And animals species going extinct at record numbers. I don't spend my whole day reading scientific journals, yet it is basically everywhere on the news and even hard to avoid.
.....I actually believe that those who ARE not AWARE of these items discussed above - must actively be avoiding mainstream newspapers and mainstream TV. Or maybe they are aware and tricking themselves? I can't say which would be worse?

[sounding]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I agree with that MUCH. If that were the total EXTENT of it, there would be NO need for me to say anything more about the subject.......and maybe people would like to continue to bathe in no-nothing-ism. If the earth had no people or those people had YET to invent the internal combustion engine or build factories without smog scrubbers, that would be the end of the story. I invite anyone, anyone to look at a graph of world population.....you immediately see the problem (I believe it is 14 trillion people---whatever). The point is the graph rapidly bends upward. So, then more people means more CO2 (and other pollutants) which in the last 15 years have caused the WHOLE EARTH to HEAT up too much. The mechanism is the heat bounces back from the upper atmosphere from the layer formed by the CO2. The excess CO2 also goes into the oceans where it has killed coral - which is a FACT, NOT MY OPINION. It has worldwide glaciers to melt BIG TIME. Again, a fact, not my imagination. Right here in Florida we are setting ALL-TIME HEAT records. Scientists talk about animal species moving north in the northern hemisphere (and people also). And animals species going extinct at record numbers. I don't spend my whole day reading scientific journals, yet it is basically everywhere on the news and even hard to avoid.
.....I actually believe that those who ARE not AWARE of these items discussed above - must actively be avoiding mainstream newspapers and mainstream TV. Or maybe they are aware and tricking themselves? I can't say which would be worse?

All these claims are easily dismissed with government data at Weather Club meetings. But back to coral - which love warm and CO2 rich waters. This Florida Keys coral image shows that corals (and coral reefs) grew faster millions of years ago when temperatures and CO2 were much higher. In fact, ancient coral reefs are more than a mile thick around the Great Barrier Reef. Corals use CO2 to create calcite (calcium carbonate) to build their hard skeletons (coral reefs). CO2 is food on land and in the waters. Even when CO2 levels were more than 15 times greater than today - the oceans NEVER turned acidic. Enjoy global warming and celebrate increasing CO2.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I agree with that MUCH. If that were the total EXTENT of it, there would be NO need for me to say anything more about the subject.......and maybe people would like to continue to bathe in no-nothing-ism. If the earth had no people or those people had YET to invent the internal combustion engine or build factories without smog scrubbers, that would be the end of the story. I invite anyone, anyone to look at a graph of world population.....you immediately see the problem (I believe it is 14 trillion people---whatever). The point is the graph rapidly bends upward. So, then more people means more CO2 (and other pollutants) which in the last 15 years have caused the WHOLE EARTH to HEAT up too much. The mechanism is the heat bounces back from the upper atmosphere from the layer formed by the CO2. The excess CO2 also goes into the oceans where it has killed coral - which is a FACT, NOT MY OPINION. It has worldwide glaciers to melt BIG TIME. Again, a fact, not my imagination. Right here in Florida we are setting ALL-TIME HEAT records. Scientists talk about animal species moving north in the northern hemisphere (and people also). And animals species going extinct at record numbers. I don't spend my whole day reading scientific journals, yet it is basically everywhere on the news and even hard to avoid.
.....I actually believe that those who ARE not AWARE of these items discussed above - must actively be avoiding mainstream newspapers and mainstream TV. Or maybe they are aware and tricking themselves? I can't say which would be worse?

In the spirit of transparency....it’s been asked countless times...we don’t need to know you, where you live etc, but do you own an EV or like lawn and garden machinery? I believe in the tried and true motto of practice what you preach. In that same spirit, I own all gas vehicles and lawn and garden machinery. Except for a rechargeable Mikita lawn/leaf blower. It’s hard to take someone seriously....that posts (continually) controversial statements on the environment with little in the way of receipts to support its contentions. A good starting point is to answer my....and others , questions about your purchases and practices

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by sounding

The belief that tornadoes are rising and stronger is another myth. NOAA data proves this. Plus, the physics of atmospherics explains why global warming is reducing tornadic events. Find out more at the Weather Club.

OK, "the physics of atmospherics" (the physics of the atmosphere?) explains why Global Warming is reducing tornadic events". Incidentally my spell check objected to tornadic - but I don't care. Boy oh boy, I bet THAT is some CONVOLUTED explanation ! Possibly the NUMBER is going down, but I don't know that for sure and I doubt that. That is saying that the earth is getting hotter, but we will see fewer problems from hurricanes and tornadoes. That, somehow, does NOT encourage me to go to that CLUB meeting.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Shipping up to Boston

In the spirit of transparency....it’s been asked countless times...we don’t need to know you, where you live etc, but do you own an EV or like lawn and garden machinery? I believe in the tried and true motto of practice what you preach. In that same spirit, I own all gas vehicles and lawn and garden machinery. Except for a rechargeable Mikita lawn/leaf blower. It’s hard to take someone seriously....that posts (continually) controversial statements on the environment with little in the way of receipts to support its contentions. A good starting point is to answer my....and others , questions about your purchases and practices

In the spirit of transparency - I walk everywhere I go (or run). In that same spirit? I might ask who wears running shoes most often or is it lace-up dress shoes most often?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by sounding

All these claims are easily dismissed with government data at Weather Club meetings. But back to coral - which love warm and CO2 rich waters. This Florida Keys coral image shows that corals (and coral reefs) grew faster millions of years ago when temperatures and CO2 were much higher. In fact, ancient coral reefs are more than a mile thick around the Great Barrier Reef. Corals use CO2 to create calcite (calcium carbonate) to build their hard skeletons (coral reefs). CO2 is food on land and in the waters. Even when CO2 levels were more than 15 times greater than today - the oceans NEVER turned acidic. Enjoy global warming and celebrate increasing CO2.

There we go back to "millions of years ago".....to which someone twists my arm and I say "so what?" I am talking - the last 15 years - of increased population, big time - and the resulting EXTRA production of CO2 than the earth and the oceans can handle Sure, I believe that all of Florida is built on layers of dead coral. You can see the color of the sand that all the building taking place uses - it is yellow, not pure white. Now, here I admit to just guessing, I GUESS that color would mean coral, but I would NOT be terribly upset if someone knows otherwise. The extra CO2 in the ocean causes acid bleaching of the coral. It is a scientific agreement that world coral will be reduced to 5% around 2080 (look it up). What is reducing coral - extra acid in the water from extra CO2. What else could it be? People ripping off pieces of coral to take home? Coral catching Covid? What is causing the icebergs to melt around the world (and rapidly)? Is it a change of Mars orbit? Or is it the rapid increase of earth population?

[Shipping up to Boston]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

In the spirit of transparency - I walk everywhere I go (or run). In that same spirit? I might ask who wears running shoes most often or is it lace-up dress shoes most often?

Exactly how I....and everybody else knew you would answer the specific question. I actually respect the consistency for which you avoid it historically. Good news though....we all know the answer

[sounding]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

OK, "the physics of atmospherics" (the physics of the atmosphere?) explains why Global Warming is reducing tornadic events". Incidentally my spell check objected to tornadic - but I don't care. Boy oh boy, I bet THAT is some CONVOLUTED explanation ! Possibly the NUMBER is going down, but I don't know that for sure and I doubt that. That is saying that the earth is getting hotter, but we will see fewer problems from hurricanes and tornadoes. That, somehow, does NOT encourage me to go to that CLUB meeting.

"Doubt" is good -- but "Data" is better. Attached tornado graph uses NOAA data. The simple answer is ... the vast majority of tornadic activity is COLD front driven. Global warming is gradually reducing cold front activity. The more detailed answer is ... global warming heats the poles faster than the equator -- which reduces the North/South temperature gradient -- which weakens the thermal wind (which creates the jet stream) -- which weakens cyclogenisis and storm systems -- which reduces cold front activity -- which is gradually reducing tornadic events. All knowledgeable meteorologists know this ... it's basic thermodynamics.

[sounding]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

There we go back to "millions of years ago".....to which someone twists my arm and I say "so what?" I am talking - the last 15 years - of increased population, big time - and the resulting EXTRA production of CO2 than the earth and the oceans can handle Sure, I believe that all of Florida is built on layers of dead coral. You can see the color of the sand that all the building taking place uses - it is yellow, not pure white. Now, here I admit to just guessing, I GUESS that color would mean coral, but I would NOT be terribly upset if someone knows otherwise. The extra CO2 in the ocean causes acid bleaching of the coral. It is a scientific agreement that world coral will be reduced to 5% around 2080 (look it up). What is reducing coral - extra acid in the water from extra CO2. What else could it be? People ripping off pieces of coral to take home? Coral catching Covid? What is causing the icebergs to melt around the world (and rapidly)? Is it a change of Mars orbit? Or is it the rapid increase of earth population?

Not quite. Florida is primarily built up on hundreds of feet of layers of limestone, which was laid down during many cycles of seas rising and lowering. Coral reefs of course lined the shorelines. Like humans, corals live and die. Like human graveyards, corals die too -- and they build upon the dead reefs -- just like humans build cities on top of ancient cities. PS ... the seas were 20 to 25 feet higher during the prior Interglacial Warm Period when temperatures were about 8 C warmer than today. We are cold compared to the prior cycle.

[Michael G.]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

And E-vehicles purchasing MUST increase in the US in order to make that happen.

Signed:

Elton Musk

[Normal]

Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum, or PETM was of course our fastest warming at almost 6 degrees Celsius in a very short period of time. Even so, this period we are in now could warm up the earth almost as quickly. Fortunately none of us will live to see it.

[sounding]

Originally Posted by Normal

Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum, or PETM was of course our fastest warming at almost 6 degrees Celsius in a very short period of time. Even so, this period we are in now could warm up the earth almost as quickly. Fortunately none of us will live to see it.

This event is commonly mentioned to scare those not familiar with the full history of climate change -- which is discussed at the Weather Club. First, the PETM was not the fastest warming event in history as it took more than 10,000 years for temperatures to increase about 6 C. Second, the fastest warming events ever discovered are called the Dansgaard Oecshger events (D-O events). We know of 25 of these D-O events within the last 100,000 years ... but most importantly, temperatures rose at a phenomenal rate of 10 C in only 70 years ... that's 1 C every 7 years! And like with the PETM ... CO2 rose after temperatures did. No one knows why either of these events occurred ... but we do know CO2 makes life on earth healthier.

[Shipping up to Boston]

Originally Posted by sounding

This event is commonly mentioned to scare those not familiar with the full history of climate change -- which is discussed at the Weather Club. First, the PETM was not the fastest warming event in history as it took more than 10,000 years for temperatures to increase about 6 C. Second, the fastest warming events ever discovered are called the Dansgaard Oecshger events (D-O events). We know of 25 of these D-O events within the last 100,000 years ... but most importantly, temperatures rose at a phenomenal rate of 10 C in only 70 years ... that's 1 C every 7 years! And like with the PETM ... CO2 rose after temperatures did. No one knows why either of these events occurred ... but we do know CO2 makes life on earth healthier.

I have to give you credit.....you’ve pushed the Weather Club meetings so much on this thread....that I’m actually debating on attending one. My own general institutional knowledge coupled with knowing when to yield to others....that may have more in a certain area...can only benefit myself and others. Sometimes on here (thread blind) I find myself getting dumber by the minute having read certain posts at times.

Could you post your meeting dates/times and locations at some point?

[sounding]

Originally Posted by Shipping up to Boston

I have to give you credit.....you’ve pushed the Weather Club meetings so much on this thread....that I’m actually debating on attending one. My own general institutional knowledge coupled with knowing when to yield to others....that may have more in a certain area...can only benefit myself and others. Sometimes on here (thread blind) I find myself getting dumber by the minute having read certain posts at times.

Could you post your meeting dates/times and locations at some point?

Thank you for your kind comments. There are now 406 registered (for email notifications) Weather Club members. There are 2 rules ... no dues and no food fights (seniors can sometimes get a little rowdy). Here is the website ... theweatherclubvillages DOT com.

Beyond the monthly Club talks, I give talks to other clubs. For June alone, I'm scheduled to give 7 talks. Here are the next 4 ...

June 3. "Why Hurricanes Form" for the Science & Technology Club - South at 1 PM at the Everglades. Learn what we don't yet know.

June 4. "Guns and Hurricanes" for the Villages Gun Club - at 6 PM at the Everglades. It's hurricane season ... find out how we hunt them -- with an update on this year's hurricane outlook. The talk 2 years ago was standing room only.

June 10. "The Schwarzschild Equation" for the Science & Technology Club - North at 1 PM at Bridgeport. This "Equation" is the "science" that defines greenhouse gas warming.

June 14. "The Meteorology of Climate Change" for the Philosophy Club at 4 PM at Lake Miona. Learn why global warming is inhibiting hurricanes and tornadoes.

Fair winds and clear skies to all.