[sounding]

Higher CO2 levels in China and India enable both countries to become greener faster ... China and India lead in greening of the world through land-use management | Nature Sustainability . Dang -- I love CO2.

[JoelJohnson]

It's too late to really fix it. The best we could do is to slow it down a bit.

[sounding]

That 97% study was done by John Cook in 2013. This was when global temperatures stopped rising -- and the alarmists needed more fuel for the fire. So the Univ. of Queensland in Australia hired John who was a work-at-home Dad as a web programmer and cartoonist (which was stated on his Skeptical Science webpage). He was given 12 students (some not in the science field) to review 11,944 abstracts to see which supported man-made climate change. Reviewing just the "abstracts" is not sufficient to gain insight into an article -- you also need to read the Conclusions -- which they did not. After the 97% finding was published, many authors objected to the findings. For example, one author, Richard Tol, said 5 out of his 10 reviewed papers were incorrectly rated, and 4 of 5 were rated as endorsed human-caused warming rather than neutral. Other scientists soon demanded to see how the study was performed, but the University refused -- until someone found all the data on an unsecured server. It revealed management "mischief" at multiple levels. Several independent (peer-reviewed) analyses were done on the same data -- where they found that only 0.5% of the articles actually stated that humans were responsible for most warming. John Cook now spends time with his new website -- Cranky Uncle.

[mtdjed]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Do you have a degree in Climatology? Have you worked in the field?

I have not, so when I make a statement of "fact" I reference people that DO it for a living. I am not stating my opinion as fact, I am stating experts in the field being discussed positions.

You seem to just state things as fact with no backup, so I ask again are you a climatologist? Are you stating facts based on your own experience and training? If not, could you provide links or references to back up your claims?

But your facts are those that you choose. There are other facts that you ignore. So your statements are simply opinions just like the rest of us on this forum.

I go back to your statement of facts by so called experts that say that all climate change is caused by humans. That fact is simply false. That is not a logical basis to start a discussion or to dismiss others statements.

[sounding]

And, Nobel Prize winner, Richard Feynman, said ... "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts."

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by mtdjed

But your facts are those that you choose. There are other facts that you ignore. So your statements are simply opinions just like the rest of us on this forum.

I go back to your statement of facts by so called experts that say that all climate change is caused by humans. That fact is simply false. That is not a logical basis to start a discussion or to dismiss others statements.

First you completely misstated my position. I post what the majority of people in the field say. Not a simple majority but 99%. I defer to them, theirs is NOT opinion, they are peer reviewed and confirmed.

Then you built a straw man to argue with saying "all climate change is caused by humans" neither I or ANYONE I quote has ever said that. So, FACT you claim has been said is not true.

And finally people postings statements as FACTs without providing any basis is NOT a basis for any form of discussion. I asked for references to support the claims, none have been forth coming.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by JoelJohnson

It's too late to really fix it. The best we could do is to slow it down a bit.

Sadly yes, we are past the tipping point. What we can try to do n ow is to slow it down long enough to come up with a plan to fix it. Sadly there are no proposed plans at this point that aren't potential worse than climate change if they are not understood or get out of hand.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by sounding

That 97% study was done by John Cook in 2013. This was when global temperatures stopped rising -- and the alarmists needed more fuel for the fire. So the Univ. of Queensland in Australia hired John who was a work-at-home Dad as a web programmer and cartoonist (which was stated on his Skeptical Science webpage). He was given 12 students (some not in the science field) to review 11,944 abstracts to see which supported man-made climate change. Reviewing just the "abstracts" is not sufficient to gain insight into an article -- you also need to read the Conclusions -- which they did not. After the 97% finding was published, many authors objected to the findings. For example, one author, Richard Tol, said 5 out of his 10 reviewed papers were incorrectly rated, and 4 of 5 were rated as endorsed human-caused warming rather than neutral. Other scientists soon demanded to see how the study was performed, but the University refused -- until someone found all the data on an unsecured server. It revealed management "mischief" at multiple levels. Several independent (peer-reviewed) analyses were done on the same data -- where they found that only 0.5% of the articles actually stated that humans were responsible for most warming. John Cook now spends time with his new website -- Cranky Uncle.

So, you still have not provided anything to support your position, only arguments to refute the experts. And you refute the experts in climatology by pointing out a study by a computer programmer. That lacks any significance.

[sounding]

The entire man-made climate narrative is built upon the climate models -- which have failed for the last 30 years -- except the Russian model which admits CO2 is not a climate driver -- which is why the news will not report this fact. Also, none of the models are worth a penny since none of them can actually replicate past climate changes -- such as the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age. Additionally, the IPCC said, "The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future exact climate states is not possible." Bottom line -- there is no climate emergency -- just climate alarmism.

[biker1]

How disingenuous of you to exclude most of the paragraph and then take it out of context. Here is the actual, complete paragraph.

“The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future climate states is not possible. Rather the focus must be upon the prediction of the probability distribution of the system’s future possible states by the generation of ensembles of model solutions. Addressing adequately the statistical nature of climate is computationally intensive and requires the application of new methods of model diagnosis, but such statistical information is essential.”

The important issue in many (most) areas of science is developing a probability distribution since exact (deterministic) outcomes are often impossible to predict. If you were a scientist you might understand this.

To the Moderators: This thread should be closed since nothing intelligent is being said anymore.

Originally Posted by sounding

The entire man-made climate narrative is built upon the climate models -- which have failed for the last 30 years -- except the Russian model which admits CO2 is not a climate driver -- which is why the news will not report this fact. Also, none of the models are worth a penny since none of them can actually replicate past climate changes -- such as the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age. Additionally, the IPCC said, "The climate system is a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore the long-term prediction of future exact climate states is not possible." Bottom line -- there is no climate emergency -- just climate alarmism.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Sadly yes, we are past the tipping point. What we can try to do n ow is to slow it down long enough to come up with a plan to fix it. Sadly there are no proposed plans at this point that aren't potential worse than climate change if they are not understood or get out of hand.

Past the tipping point of WHAT???? Climate change??? If that is the premise, it is completely false since climate change has nothing to do with human activity.

Rather than giving a long and complicated lecture of paleoclimatology and the coefficients of relative absorption of radiant energy by various matrices, let me make this very, very simple:

25,000 years ago New York City was covered by 2 miles of ice. It was cold. Now the port of NY is at sea level. It is warmer. The climate changed. In 1859 when Drake discovered oil in Pennsylvania, it was about the same as today---no 2 miles of ice, much warmer than 25,000 years ago. When the industrial revolution started burning coal in the late 18th century, it was the same. Without any fossil fuel being burnt for heat or electricity, without any SUVs or jet aircraft, the period of glaciation ended and "global warming" melted the ice packs and glaciers. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HUMAN ACTIVITY. Simple, huh?

Now for the real joke of the myth of "climate change". In about 15,000 years when NYC is under 200 feet of water (the maximum high temp of the interglacial thaw), the "global alarmists will probably crow that they were "right" What a joke!. Of course 50,000 years after that when NYC is again covered in 2 mile of ice, maybe they will figure out that they've been had----had by the government, had by the media, and had by the "ecowarriors"

However, the part that is not a joke is that these same clowns want to spend 100 TRILLION dollars over the next 40 or 50 years to "fight" this.

[mtdjed]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

First you completely misstated my position. I post what the majority of people in the field say. Not a simple majority but 99%. I defer to them, theirs is NOT opinion, they are peer reviewed and confirmed.

Then you built a straw man to argue with saying "all climate change is caused by humans" neither I or ANYONE I quote has ever said that. So, FACT you claim has been said is not true.

And finally people postings statements as FACTs without providing any basis is NOT a basis for any form of discussion. I asked for references to support the claims, none have been forth coming.

FACT-Your stated quote

"More than 99.9% of peer-reviewed scientific papers agree that climate change is mainly caused by humans, according to a new survey of 88,125 climate-related studies."

Climate change has been happening since time began and your stated fact is that above "mainly caused by humans". If you want to argue with "all" vs mainly, have at it.

It still is not a valid fact. You ignore history of significant climate changes as reconstructed by other scientists. Climate changes occur naturally. Things can affect climate change such as volcanos, asteroids, solar cycles, earth tilt. Have humans affected climate change? Yes, by creating cities that become heat sinks, cutting down forests, draining lakes, and possible pollutants. But clearing pollutants from the air may also affect climate change. Clearing the air from pollution such as smog, while being good for our health, may have the effect of contributing to a higher temperature.

If you refer to the chart displayed of the planetary cycle of glacial and interglacial periods, we are currently well within the norms of what has happened in the past, despite the fact that there are humans now. When you consider that a mere 12,000 years ago the Great Lakes and Niagara Falls were just being formed by a climate change much larger than a rise in temperature noted recently.

If you premised your discussion to the last 40 years, which by some studies indicates a global temperature rise of somewhere near 2 degrees F, your stated claim of impact on climate change by humans starts to have some validity.

Then, you can perhaps cite some studies that evaluate how human activities could affect rises and drops in average temperature. But be careful to note that there are certain human activities that lower temps and some that raise temps.
I don't have any facts but do have observations. The air appears cleaner now than it was in the 60's and 70's most likely due to human efforts limit smog and smoke. The temp rise of about 2 degrees seems to have occurred coincident with that improvement. Major efforts were made to install smoke scrubbers, catalytic converters etc.
Perhaps some of that clean air may have assisted some of the noted raise in temp.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by mtdjed

FACT-Your stated quote

"More than 99.9% of peer-reviewed scientific papers agree that climate change is mainly caused by humans, according to a new survey of 88,125 climate-related studies..

Thank you for proving my point, you said, ALL I said the scientist believe MOST.

Reading comprehension is hard.

The rest of you post provide no links, or references to support it, as you said yourself you don’t know, you think, but can’t seem to support why you have that opinion.

Sorry, I do not, accept the opinions of random people posting on the internet over establish scientific community.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by biker1

To the Moderators: This thread should be closed since nothing intelligent is being said anymore.

Lol, so you disagree so everyone else is wrong… and we wouldn’t want unintelligent people posting. LOL. The irony is almost overwhelming.

Let’s censor the unintelligent….

[mtdjed]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Thank you for proving my point, you said, ALL I said the scientist believe MOST.

Reading comprehension is hard.

The rest of you post provide no links, or references to support it, as you said yourself you don’t know, you think, but can’t seem to support why you have that opinion.

Sorry, I do not, accept the opinions of random people posting on the internet over establish scientific community.

Why refute the experts on climate change who can't get anyone to agree with them on the statement that humans have been "mostly" "mainly" responsible for climate change since time began? No definition of time is allowed. Just everything said by the experts is irreputable and any response or opinion of random people is unacceptable.

I guess I must now blame the last Glacial Period on our ancestors who discovered fire by rubbing sticks together. Well maybe I should give them credit. I hate the cold. That is why I moved to Florida.