[ajbrown]

Originally Posted by KBusch

I hear ya, They over fill, leak, don't fill, if I had a cart I wouldn't put one on. I can fill the batteries and do a better job without one. However, they do have there place, but as I tell my customers, if you are able bodied to check the level, do it the old fashion way. I took one off a cart today as it ruined 2 of the guys batteries due to not filling the cells.

Folks have much more experience with these systems than I, so let me ask a question. What type of system was it where you found cells that were not filling. Was it gravity or the bulb type?

My thinking is that the bulb type would open a valve even if a bit stuck due to the pressure created during the squeeze.

I reserve the right to be wrong, I am just curious. I check mine every so often and have yet to see an issue, but not filling a cell is a big fear.

Thanks

[littleCedar]

We are talking about the auto-fill systems, like this one:

https://www.flow-rite.com/battery-watering/pro-fill

They are supposed to be self contained and you are not supposed to ever have to take the caps off, etc.

Based on the three fleets I have serviced that had them, no one other than me seems to care if they are working or not. They just hook them up and don't pay any attention to leaks or overfills. I have been the only one to call it to the attention of the dealers or manufacturer.

I know how important it is because I saw E Z Go stonewall a system that didn't work, and wind up replacing 117 batteries before they gave up and replaced the fleet.

[littleCedar]

Originally Posted by littleCedar

I serviced all the batteries myself the other day, and recorded the problems. That's the first time I've done it myself, so know what's going on, since last year.

There were no leaky lines.

But, at least 20 of the 60 carts had at least one cell that the valve did not shut off, so it overfilled.

I told our E Z Go rep about it last month, and he/we put it on hold until I could provide him more information.

Now I can.

24 of 61 to be exact.

[littleCedar]

4 of our carts show a battery/charger fault every morning . . . a slow, single flashing red light instead of the solid green. Same carts, any charger they are on, parked at random each day.

At battery filling yesterday, all four had valves that did not close, so cells that overfilled.

An hour after they were plugged back in, they were hot and sulfurey smelling.

This has been reported for the last three months and we've been told there is nothing wrong with them, despite the "Charger/Battery Fault" chart placed on our wall by the manufacturer.

I have learned that if you ignore these problems, it is not like teeth . . . . they will not go away.

[KBusch]

Originally Posted by littleCedar

4 of our carts show a battery/charger fault every morning . . . a slow, single flashing red light instead of the solid green. Same carts, any charger they are on, parked at random each day.

At battery filling yesterday, all four had valves that did not close, so cells that overfilled.

An hour after they were plugged back in, they were hot and sulfurey smelling.

This has been reported for the last three months and we've been told there is nothing wrong with them, despite the "Charger/Battery Fault" chart placed on our wall by the manufacturer.

I have learned that if you ignore these problems, it is not like teeth . . . . they will not go away.

Having dealt with many OEM manufacturers on warranty issue, the first thing you will learn is they will do everything in their power to defuse the issue, especially when it comes to fleets. They know, if it happens to one fleet it will happen to another fleet. They are taught to explain it away rather than say there is an issue. If you want results, be the squeaky wheel and log those warranty repairs, that gets their attention.

[littleCedar]

Originally Posted by KBusch

Having dealt with many OEM manufacturers on warranty issue, the first thing you will learn is they will do everything in their power to defuse the issue, especially when it comes to fleets. They know, if it happens to one fleet it will happen to another fleet. They are taught to explain it away rather than say there is an issue. If you want results, be the squeaky wheel and log those warranty repairs, that gets their attention.

True.

Here's some of my experience with manufacturers stonewalling problems:

RXV Auto-Brake Problem III

As part of that, E Z Go wound up replacing 117 batteries, but the fleet was so far gone that they wound up replacing it with a new fleet ahead of schedule.

One problem is in dealing with dealers rather than direct with the manufacturer's (techs). That adds an extra layer you have to peel off.

I've dealt with it both ways, with both E Z Go and Club Car.

I document by email, copy everyone in the loop, and keep at it.

The 2008 problem took until 2012 to resolve.

[littleCedar]

Serviced batteries today with the Flow Rite.

Still having problems, some valves not closing, causing overfills.

[littleCedar]

We are being asked to do more documentation of our battery problems in our 2012 fleet. As I've mentioned, the autofills have not been working properly and some carts are routinely dying on the first 18 holes.

As for the four carts that always show charger faults, slow flashing red light, a battery temperature fault, we took the temps of each of the batteries during charging, before faulting, and they were all in the 140° range. Our "control" carts were all in the 80-90° range.

I took the voltage of each of the batteries after disconnecting them from the charger, and one was in the 10's, suggesting a short. Some were near 12.0, suggesting end of life.

Two carts died on the first 18 yesterday, and when I got them in, a battery in each was reading 6 volts, while the other three in each were reading 12.3-12.5.

Yeah, the back battery, the one that corrodes.

So, now I guess I will be in the process of taking voltage readings on all the batteries.

[littleCedar]

I am thinking we should do the lazer thermometer and voltage testing on every battery where the autofill has failed.

[littleCedar]

Originally Posted by littleCedar

We are being asked to do more documentation of our battery problems in our 2012 fleet. As I've mentioned, the autofills have not been working properly and some carts are routinely dying on the first 18 holes.

As for the four carts that always show charger faults, slow flashing red light, a battery temperature fault, we took the temps of each of the batteries during charging, before faulting, and they were all in the 140° range. Our "control" carts were all in the 80-90° range.

I took the voltage of each of the batteries after disconnecting them from the charger, and one was in the 10's, suggesting a short. Some were near 12.0, suggesting end of life.

Two carts died on the first 18 yesterday, and when I got them in, a battery in each was reading 6 volts, while the other three in each were reading 12.3-12.5.

Yeah, the back battery, the one that corrodes.

So, now I guess I will be in the process of taking voltage readings on all the batteries.

Each of the four carts with hot batteries during charging have regularly had autofill failures, valves not closing and cells overfilling.

[littleCedar]

Are golf carts not a big deal in The Villages any more?

[ajbrown]

I for one am very much into reading folks experiences with all things electric carts. I have read all of your posts and am certainly interested with your findings.

Like many threads, I just have nothing of value to add

Oh wait, I have one thing. Thank you for taking the time to share what you are experiencing with auto fill systems.

[Blackie]

Originally Posted by ajbrown

I for one am very much into reading folks experiences with all things electric carts. I have read all of your posts and am certainly interested with your findings.

Like many threads, I just have nothing of value to add

Oh wait, I have one thing. Thank you for taking the time to share what you are experiencing with auto fill systems.

My sentiments exactly.

Additionally from your results I have no wish to add a watering system, I am happy to take 15 minutes every 3 weeks to check the cells properly.

[littleCedar]

Thanks.

Did I milk those accolades adequately?

Here's another note of caution about the Flowrite autofills. The hose end assembly, the working part, is not built substantial enough for typical golf course applications, giving who and where they are used.

I got ours out last year on a service day, and it was broken (no explanation for that). Today was service day and a careful, sincere co-worker who wants to learn more about how to take care of our carts was helping me. I turned it over to him when it came time for me to go deal with customers.

When I came back he said, "I did a bad. I dropped it." I said, "Yeah, and it broke in the clear plastic section, I bet, which is called the flow indicater."

Yup.

One little drop on concrete, or even holding it wrong, and that section of plastic snaps.

You have to order another one then.

[littleCedar]

We have more or less been asked to document/determine for ourselves what is causing our carts to die on the course and to have charger faults. So, today I went in early, disconnected the charger, and took voltage readings on all the batteries.

Using the axiom that a fresh 12 volt battery will read 12.8-12.9, and that the closer it gets to 12.0, the closer it is to the end of its useful life, most of the batteries were in the 12.6-12.8 range.

There were 20, out of 60, that had readings of 12.4 or lower. Some had 11s and 10s, meaning shorted cells.

Every cart that has been a problem had at least one low battery.

These are 2012s, and have been in service around 15 months.