[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

This is very true, but, do we need to make it easy for them.?

Fun Fact:

Of all our friends in prison, less than 2% purchased a gun from a retailer.

Less than 2%.

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by jdulej

I agree with you about "the revolution" - that's just a right wing wet dream. But, just who is everyone afraid of? On my little 3 block street here in TV there are at least 75-100 AR15s sitting in people's closets. Very few who have one have just one. They take them down to Shooter's World and pay another small fortune to blast away for a while, so they are good and ready for something. They have been told that that TV is a "soft target" (whatever that means) - more like TV is full of gullible old fools.

Apparently you have been living in TV too long. There are neighborhoods in this country where people are afraid to walk the street due to gang wars, drug deals and prostitution. Unfortunately these gang wars have spread outside of the bad neighborhoods. Did you not see the news reports of shootings in downtown areas in broad daylight? There are home invasions and car jackings going on all the time in large and small cities.

[Number 10 GI]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I believe that there are a lot of sane gun owners. I have enjoyed hunting and shooting at targets (note......I would NEVER shoot at pictures of humans, always a bullseye only) That is NOT the problem. The problem is the type of rifle (something with a 30-round mag) and the sheer number of guns in civilian hands. And the strange recent increase.
........Canada is worried about itself (and its proximity to the US). Canada recognizes the problem. The US has become mentally deranged by the GUN manufacturers' propaganda and advertisements. The ads for the gun used by the shooter at Robb Elementary showed a 3 or 4-year-old seemingly desirous of their AR-15 clone. That is SICK!

Bludgeons are responsible for more deaths that rifles in this country.

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

Apparently you have been living in TV too long. There are neighborhoods in this country where people are afraid to walk the street due to gang wars, drug deals and prostitution. Unfortunately these gang wars have spread outside of the bad neighborhoods. Did you not see the news reports of shootings in downtown areas in broad daylight? There are home invasions and car jackings going on all the time in large and small cities.

Why I no longer live in Chicago

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

In Viet Nam the infantry soldier had to hump for miles in sweltering jungle conditions carrying his ammo basic load, rifle and a rucksack loaded down with other necessities. In the Sand Box soldiers humped in temperatures like an oven, carrying even more equipment than the Viet Nam vets. Some rucksacks could top 80 lbs. in weight. This demonstrated the advantages of a lightweight rifle shooting a light caliber round.

All your points are germane to a soldier in combat. None of this provided an advantage in any the school shootings or other shootings involving the AR15. All of them simply walked in an unguarded, unwatched door from their parked vehicle. The difference in ammo weight means nothing either.

The round the Model 1907 uses is similar in capability to the venerable 30-30 Winchester but both are capable rounds for deer withing their range limitation. The recoil from a .351 and time needed to get back on target really causes no limitation in rate of fire when the shooter is in a small classroom with children huddled in a corner. The .351 will more than likely penetrate 2 or more small statured children where as the 5.56 will most likely be stopped by one body. The .351 will inflict much more grievous wounds than the AR15 bullet. Typical ammo for the .351 is soft nose hunting ammo that is designed to expand when it hits flesh or bone, creating a large wound channel to cause a quick bleed out and death. The 5.56 is an effective round but it doesn't "explode", that is urban myth and it cannot create the devastating wounds the .351 can cause.

These "significant differences" mean nothing outside of the combat environment.

The 223 is a high-velocity cartridge and with civilian lead soft-noes bullets would leave a large exit wound often described as "exploding". That's why the children's own parents could NOT recognize their faces. Their heads were pulverized. They had to use DNA identification. That's the reality, NOT an "urban legend". Brass covered military bullets poke holes and don't expand as per the Geneva convention.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

Why didn't you also mention the ANTIFA and BLM riots where over $2 Billion in destroyed property and a number of murders. Did they not take over police stations, a whole city block and vandalize office buildings of various levels of government? Were these not acts of anarchism and sedition.?

No, they were just greedy criminals acting spontaneously To take advantage of police not being able to be everywhere. Jan 6th was a PLANNED attempt at a US government TAKEOVER - a COMPLETELY different animal! In a few days, the Jan 6th Committee will PROVE that to all with a flexible, open mind.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

Why didn't you also mention the ANTIFA and BLM riots where over $2 Billion in destroyed property and a number of murders. Did they not take over police stations, a whole city block and vandalize office buildings of various levels of government? Were these not acts of anarchism and sedition.?

A perfect example of "whataboutism" normally used by children in the lower grades.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

How would a waiting period have stopped the shooter in New Mexico? He purchased the rifles days before the shooting. I don't know of any school shootings where the shooter did his killing the same day as buying the gun.

A waiting period is good because it allows the EMOTIONS OF THE MOMENT to settle down.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

Bludgeons are responsible for more deaths that rifles in this country.

Same for ANY country. We are trying to compare countries by their relevant factors here, not introduce extraneous factors to confuse the subject.

[Woodbear]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Thank you for your personal attack, in fact it was a pro-gun/anti-gun control poster that first brought up plastic guns as a way around gun controls. Funny how he was not accused of trolling.

So, I will just change plastic gun to bat or knife will get through which we have been assured are just as deadly as guns

You are in more danger of being killed by a knife, bat, fist or foot than being shot by ANY rifle, let alone a "scary black" one.

[jdulej]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

Apparently you have been living in TV too long. There are neighborhoods in this country where people are afraid to walk the street due to gang wars, drug deals and prostitution. Unfortunately these gang wars have spread outside of the bad neighborhoods. Did you not see the news reports of shootings in downtown areas in broad daylight? There are home invasions and car jackings going on all the time in large and small cities.

You are correct, there are some areas (maybe 1 or 2% of the country, all in poor urban areas) that are like a war zone. I've yet to hear of a good guys save the day with AR-15s event in any of those.
There is zero chance of gang warfare breaking out in TV

[jdulej]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

So what are the things they are doing in these other countries? Please don't say gun bans stop violence, there are still knives, bludgeons, fists, feet and any number of potential weapons. What are their assault rates with these weapons? If those rates are lower than ours, how does a gun ban cause that?

I guess removing the evil talisman guns also removes the evil spirits that force a sane person to become evil.

You miss the point that most of the mass killers are cowards. It would take a certain amount of nerve to wade into a crowd with just a club or a knife. Much easier and satisfying to stand back and blast away. All the advertising reminds these nuts that real men shoot guns!

[Normal]

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

How would a waiting period have stopped the shooter in New Mexico? He purchased the rifles days before the shooting. I don't know of any school shootings where the shooter did his killing the same day as buying the gun.

No law is 100 percent fool proof, so that can't and isn't the expectation. Obviously we have people who are crazy.

The schools need to be hardened just like the airports were. Times change. Whether it is 9/11 and Bin Laden or school shootings we evolve and learn.

[Caymus]

Originally Posted by jdulej

You are correct, there are some areas (maybe 1 or 2% of the country, all in poor urban areas) that are like a war zone. I've yet to hear of a good guys save the day with AR-15s event in any of those.
There is zero chance of gang warfare breaking out in TV

Try 10 or 20%.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Fun Fact:

Of all our friends in prison, less than 2% purchased a gun from a retailer.

Less than 2%.

Like this shooting, and let's see a few months ago some parents bought their son a gun?

And how many mass shooters survived and went to jail?

Or the Buffalo shooting a little while back that a dealer sold him the gun.

The only place I could find your 2% number of at the FBI site for 1996. For 2016 the number is similar but higher. But the numbers come from "ASKING" the prisoner how and where they got their guns. Not a very credible source.

From the FBI in 2016:

"Prisoners who reported that they had purchased a firearm from a licensed firearm dealer at a retail source were further asked whether they bought the firearm under their own name and whether they knew a background check was conducted. Among those who had possessed a firearm during the offense for which they were imprisoned, 7% of state and 8% of federal prisoners had purchased it under their own name from a licensed firearm dealer at a retail source, while approximately 1% of state and 2% of federal prisoners had purchased a firearm from a licensed dealer at a retail source but did not purchase it under their own name (not shown in table)."

15% from dealers and 1% to 2% under someone else's names.

Also, 2016 didn't summarize the other source, but 1996 did (not very good for today) but the other sources included private sales, shows, etc. Which don't do background checks.

You left those out:

Also, of "our friends in prison" over 60% were in prison for nonweapons-related charges (sex, robbery, and the BIG one drugs).

So, let's go with you, since criminals are getting guns in other places how do you propose we stop that?