[jebartle]

Originally Posted by Lindsyburnsy

The solution is obvious to everyone but the people that can do something about it.

50 senators represent 30% of the nation, but control 100% of gun control solutions.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Woodbear

You are in more danger of being killed by a knife, bat, fist or foot than being shot by ANY rifle, let alone a "scary black" one.

That just proves that Canada is doing the RIGHT thing by wanting to ban all handguns AND MILITARY STYLE semi-auto rifles. Canadian citizens would still be able to hunt and defend their homes. I guess that Canada does not have the equivalence of the US NRA that would PREFER that every US citizen own a rifle with a 100-round banana mag and a grenade launcher. The "slippery slope" has somehow defied gravity in the US - it is a "slippery slope" upward and at Robb Elementry the bad guy was slipping on children's blood.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Like this shooting, and let's see a few months ago some parents bought their son a gun?

And how many mass shooters survived and went to jail?

Or the Buffalo shooting a little while back that a dealer sold him the gun.

The only place I could find your 2% number of at the FBI site for 1996. For 2016 the number is similar but higher. But the numbers come from "ASKING" the prisoner how and where they got their guns. Not a very credible source.

From the FBI in 2016:

"Prisoners who reported that they had purchased a firearm from a licensed firearm dealer at a retail source were further asked whether they bought the firearm under their own name and whether they knew a background check was conducted. Among those who had possessed a firearm during the offense for which they were imprisoned, 7% of state and 8% of federal prisoners had purchased it under their own name from a licensed firearm dealer at a retail source, while approximately 1% of state and 2% of federal prisoners had purchased a firearm from a licensed dealer at a retail source but did not purchase it under their own name (not shown in table)."

15% from dealers and 1% to 2% under someone else's names.

Also, 2016 didn't summarize the other source, but 1996 did (not very good for today) but the other sources included private sales, shows, etc. Which don't do background checks.

You left those out:

Also, of "our friends in prison" over 60% were in prison for nonweapons-related charges (sex, robbery, and the BIG one drugs).

So, let's go with you, since criminals are getting guns in other places how do you propose we stop that?

I propose that the only way to stop a large percentage of mass murders is to reduce magazine capacity to 5 rounds and stop selling semi-auto rifles to civilians - BECAUSE that worked for Australia and New Zealand (mass murders went to almost ZERO.
.........And Canada now wants to do something about their mass murder and GUN crimes. They know that they can NOT change the number of people with mental problems (too ambiguous) or stop video games (NOT a factor in other countries). But, GUNS are a TANGIBLE problem that can be worked with, as other counties have (not including the US which IS the STUBBORN OUTLIER).

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by jebartle

Unfortunately, statistics can say or not say whatever the poster wants to conclude. Sure hope gridlock is not the answer, and congress has a real solution.

At best, I predict a small facsimile of a solution - maybe like more teeth in the Red Flag laws. I doubt they will be able to do something meaningful like reducing magazine capacity to 5 rounds. Washington will make a small change around the edges. Then pat themselves on the back for wonderfully working together in a non-partisan manner!
........And likely, as they celebrate, more mass murders will break out this summer. More funerals!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Sarah_W

There is not such thing as a soft nosed .223 round.

Winchester civilian brand......used to be called silver tips and Remington civilian brand....used to be called core-locks. Rut whatever they are called, they are designed for maximum expansion in small game and deer. In the Robb Elementary case, the small game was young children. That is why (like I said) those shot in the head could NOT be identified by their own parents. It IS gory to say, but the reality is that their poor little brains, head, and face were turned into unrecognizable mush. Therefore the need for DNA testing. High-velocity soft point civilian rifle ammo expand like an "explosion" in soft flesh!

[Sarah_W]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I propose that the only way to stop a large percentage of mass murders is to reduce magazine capacity to 5 rounds and stop selling semi-auto rifles to civilians - BECAUSE that worked for Australia and New Zealand (mass murders went to almost ZERO.
.........And Canada now wants to do something about their mass murder and GUN crimes. They know that they can NOT change the number of people with mental problems (too ambiguous) or stop video games (NOT a factor in other countries). But, GUNS are a TANGIBLE problem that can be worked with, as other counties have (not including the US which IS the STUBBORN OUTLIER).

I propose we stop all school shootings by implementing solutions similar to Southwestern High School in Indiana.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Sarah_W

How can you draw such conclusions? It is absolutely ridiculous to believe and suggest that law abiding gun owners are not concerned with murder victims. In my opinion, it is quite the opposite. I believe it is actually those who are ignorant of firearm ownership and safety that are the root cause of murder in our country. DA's in major blue cities not prosecuting crimes. Violent criminals being released to terrorize our cities. There is at least one mass shooting every single month in Chicago and the authorities there do nothing about it. The same can be said for Los Angeles, St. Louis, Baltimore, to name a few. These are issues that law abiding gun owners discuss at length but do not have the voting numbers to override the corrupt people elected to office in these cities.

I've offered solutions to school shootings at the most common response from our friends left of center is "we shouldn't have to send our kids to a "prison".". There are 63,000 schools in the U.S. If everyone did what a high school in Indiana did, there would be no more mass school shootings. Anyone who would like to see their solution go on YouTube and look for "Inside The Safest School in America". It cost $400K to retrofit that school. That equates to $20 billion to retrofit every school in America. That is how you stop mass shootings in school. That is half what we just sent to Ukraine for their "needs". The solution lies with our elected leaders so tell your Representative to support such an effort.

The problem is not Baby Boomers. They are not the killers. You're looking at the wrong generation.

The NRA is 5 million law abiding gun enthusiasts. Without people like me there is no NRA. The majority work done by the NRA revolves around gun safety programs and education. I'd love to hear what you think it is. Additionally, there are dozens of other non-profit gun rights organizations.

Point out the marketing techniques that you find so disturbing. There are no commercials on television advertising guns or ammo. They market in gun magazines and trade shows.

I already pointed out in an earlier post about a gun advertisement on TV that was inappropriate. The gun used by the Robb Elementary mass murderer is known to advertise to YOUNGER shooters. I saw one where their military-style rifle was placed upon the lap of about a 3 or 4-year-old boy (white race). he looked at it admiringly. They also included some dumb ___ verbiage about him growing up to be wonderful BECAUSE of the gun.
........Nobody is saying that legitimate gun-owning or owners are BAD. But, we have had TWO mass murders in the recent 10-day span. In both cases, the weapon of choice was a low-recoil, 223 cal semi-auto AR-15 style rifle with large-capacity magazines. I heard today that the last 10 mass shootings had a similar weapon of choice. The low recoil is a big factor that allows inexperienced young shooters to be able to KILL efficiently.
........A good compromise at this point would be requiring an age of 21 to purchase any firearms. And allowing no magazine with over 5 rounds to be sold to civilians.
.........At this point, it is compromise or live with the US being the country with the most firearms crimes and deaths in the 1st world - with children being afraid to go to school - with human, adult and children, having constant suffering.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Absolutely.

Law-abiding gun owners are not the problem. The liberals are not the problem either.

The NRA is borderline. It used to be about gun owners, I believe it has changed a lot in the last decade, and it is now more of a mouthpiece for the gun manufacturers. But, I could be wrong.

The problem is the extremists and the criminals.

Meantime we can be assured if we count on Congress to fix things, things will only get worse.

The SOLUTION is for "normal" law-abiding citizens to take action, find a solution we can live with, and save the next batch of children that will be murdered soon - despite everyone's "thoughts and prayers"

Good post! Kudos.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Sarah_W

Your theory has already been debunked. A simple Google search would show you the weapon of choice for mass shooters and school shooters is a semi-auto handgun, NOT the AR platform that seems to scare the bejesus out of you. Since I know your Google Fu is top notch then must assume it was just laziness on your part, or a poor assumption as I did previously.

This killer in Uvalde locked himself in a classroom and killed the two adults and 19 children in that classroom. He did not need an AR to accomplish the same task. He could have used a 12 ga. pump shotgun and still massacred the same 21 victims in under 2 or 3 minutes. Whether you kill 21 people in 1 minute or 2 minutes the outcome is the same. As long as nobody engages the killer, the killing will continue until he is out of ammunition, offs himself, or someone else stops him. Unarmed victims will NEVER be able to stop an armed killer.

Ban AR's and determined killers will choose another weapon and achieve the same infamy they seek.

The percentage of households with firearms has been decreasing since 1972 when the data began to be collected. Simple logic dictates as our population increases the number of firearms will increase. The percentage of ownership however is decreasing.

Also, guns have been in common use in our country for over 300 years. But for the past 30 years we suddenly have a problem. Why?

I find fault with 2 of the statements. Unarmed victims DO often find ways to disable the shooter. Recently, in California, a shooter locked a door of a church in an Asian community. A clergy member hit him with a chair and captured him.
........My opinion is to SLOW DOWN the rate of fire of the mass murderer by making him reload small capacity magazines (like 5 rounds) - that gives people nearby time to throw rocks, or other objects at him and/or make their escape. I would sell only bolt-action rifles and pistols. Australia did that and it has prevented THEIR mass murders. Australia and New Zealand did NOT suddenly get taken over by criminals or commie leftists. It WOULD work in the US.
.........And things are very different today in the US than in the past. The last 2 years have seen a 30% increase in US civilian GUN ownership - these are not hunting and target guns. I have written my opinion as to the reason for this increase in my past posts. This IS a DRASTIC CHANGE that can't be ignored.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Lindsyburnsy

The solution is obvious to everyone but the people that can do something about it.

The solution isn't obvious, because it's complex. However, it wouldn't matter because the people who can do something about it do not WANT to do something about it. The people who WANT to do something about it, who are in government, are hamstrung by the minority in government who block any attempt to make progress.

[Number 10 GI]

Trying to use logic with a person who only operates on emotion is like trying to carry on a conversation with a drunk. No critical thinking ability at all.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

All, true, except you, left off a point. As the number of people that own guns have decreased (I think around 40% to around 30% of households since 1970?) the total number of guns has increased significantly. This means fewer people have more guns.

The number of hunters has decreased. That's why the GUN manufacturers and their mouthpiece, the NRA, realized that MORE PROFITS were to be made by propagandizing Americans to THINK that they NEEDED military rifles to protect themselves. The paintball games got young people used to shooting at humans, the same for video games. The GUN makers got rich and more people died. In 1994, GUN laws were made more lenient to satisfy the GUN makers - the NRA owned Congress.
..........The best hope today is to limit MAGAZINE size and raise the age for GUN purchases. Ideally, the US should look to Australia for solutions. But, until enough people know someone in their own family that has died in a GUN crime, US people will continue on their bloody stubborn ways!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Sarah_W

That is totally correct. People buy multiple firearms for a variety of reasons. Personally, knowing that NATO rounds are the 9mm, .45acp, .223/5.56, .308/7.62 and 12ga shotgun, I have at least one of each. I have several for hunting, target shooting, self defense, and for the students I teach. Each has a different purpose. Then again, i don't think owning 20 guitars is a bad idea either.

Maybe then, the BEST situation would be to own a 9 mm semi-automatic guitar with a banana clip.

[Sarah_W]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Maybe then, the BEST situation would be to own a 9 mm semi-automatic guitar with a banana clip.

I've posted at least 3 times about Southwestern High school in Indiana which spent $400k to secure their school from a mass shooter being able to carry out such an event. We can retrofit all 63,000 schools in our country for $20billion. It is a solution that would stop all mass school shootings. That seems the best solution to me.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Sarah_W

I propose we stop all school shootings by implementing solutions similar to Southwestern High School in Indiana.

That would help ! The problem is to get ALL the PUBLIC school districts in ALL the US to be willing to INCREASE their property taxes enough to pay the costs of that "HARDENING" of schools. I would VOTE for that!