[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

The UK is NUMBER ONE in violent crimes in the World.

Actually, that would be Honduras, with a violent crime rate per 100,000 of 52.019. Honduras also leads the world in murder rate, by the way.

The UK is something like 157th overall, even lower in murder rate.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by spd2918

I had police training about how to react to an "active shooter." I wish I kept my materials. I recall a high percentage of young adults who commit these crimes are actively on mental illness medication, some of which have warnings of homicidal/ suicidal idiations. Food for thought.

And I learned the first school shooting was in the 1800s. And nutballs that want soft victims go to schools and some have used knives. So do we ban those too? Or fertilizer and deisiel fuel?

Interesting a quick search showed numbers AS HIGH AS 11% of shooters in schools exhibit serious mental health issues. Up to 20% of mass murderers.

I don't understand your point about knives, fertilizer, etc. Are you suggesting that ;since anything CAN be used as a weapon we should just do nothing? Since you are saying what doesn't work, but not making any suggestion one what to do to stop this uniquely American past time. We are the only country in the world that kills it's children for going to school.

Here is a study by MIH on mental health and mass shootings.

Mental Illness, Mass Shootings, and the Politics of American Firearms - PMC

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by Scbang

There will always be killings as long as human species exist. The questions is how many and haw fast can one kill.

With baseball bat, knife, punching, etc..
vs. Automatic rifle, machine gun, handgun, etc..

Yes even a hunting bow can kill from a distance but not at the rate of AR-15.

If we have to have guns for hunting and ranching and other purposes, maybe it's time for license and registrations also insurance. Powerful Insurance companies might be able to do something our politicians and all of can not do.

Sadness.

The much available (and discussed/mis-used) model "AR-15" is not an automatic weapon!!!

It is a rifle on an AR-15 configuration.

It is one shot with one trigger pull.....shoots as fast as fast as you can repeat pulling the trigger......like most all other firearms!

[Taltarzac725]

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law...-turning-point

This does seem to suggest that more gun manufacturers will be sued for violence done by people using their weapons especially if the company marketed the firearm in a certain way.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

The UK is NUMBER ONE in violent crimes in the World.

First, this is factually wrong. It is not even in the top 10, maybe around 150th?

And second, this thread is about school shootings and school children being murdered, and GB. has not had ONE school shooting since 1996, and within months of that shooting they banned most guns and strangely - no more school shooting since then. I am NOT claiming causality, but there does seem to be correlation.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by MDLNB

The UK is NUMBER ONE in violent crimes in the World.

Here one way of researching that?

Most Dangerous Countries in the World 2022

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by nn0wheremann

Somehow we must bring into balance our rights under the Second (keep and bear arms) and Fourth (be secure in our persons, houses, papers, and effects) Amendments.

If the law cannot protect our rights under the Fourth Amendment, then the Second Amendment will.

[Trayderjoe]

IMO, the very loop that this thread has taken is why not enough progress has been made to help reduce these tragic events. Apples are not truly being compared to apples when we compare our past history with our current society, nor when we compare US against other countries. EVERYTHING is not equal and making basic comparisons ignores these differences. For example, how does the use of anti-depressants factor in? Here is a study from 2021 on "America's Epidemic Of Antidepressants" (link). Were antidepressants as prevalent back then as they are now? What are the rates of anti-depressant use in other countries? What are the comparative suicide rates (US today versus the 1950's and US vs other countries)? When we were kids, we were exposed to violence as are kids of today, but WHAT IS DIFFERENT? One easy answer is that when we were kids, we socialized more (read: played) with other children whereas today a segment of the population playing violent video games are doing so online and by themselves.

Instead, how about taking the time understand how human life has become so devalued in our society? Is that too big of a challenge? Well then why don't we try to understand why CURRENT laws are not working and fix what is broken (for whatever reason) before we implement new laws? As an example from an earlier post in this thread: "But, not all somethings are useful. That is obvious, since there are lots of "somethings" being done, useless gun Carol laws that are not enforced and have too many loop holes for example." I asked: "I am curious as to which gun control laws are useless and not enforced and what the many loopholes are that make them useless." I still have not seen a response to this question, although the person who made the former statement has posted multiple times since then.

So if we are to solely focus on new "common sense" gun laws, please explain specifically what these laws would be and correlate how these new laws would have prevented these mass shootings. Given that at least twice in this thread, a statistic of "200 mass shootings have occurred this year" has been cited, I would ask that these proposed laws also be correlated to handgun usage and not just the use of a rifle. Note that I am not disputing the number since it would appear to include gangland style handgun shootings in major urban areas, but it would be helpful if the poster included a link to support the reported number and to provide context. I would also not be at all surprised if the data also shows that HANDGUNS are used more frequently than rifles in mass shooting events.

Oh, and I am looking as well for a definition of what an "assault rifle" actually is. I am not talking about the look or color of a rifle, I am talking about what function in the rifle makes it an "assault rifle". Hint: AR does NOT stand for assault rifle despite what the talking heads say, it stands for ArmaLite rifle after the company that originated the design in the 1950's.

[Taltarzac725]

Why $73 million Sandy Hook settlement is unlikely to unleash a flood of lawsuits against gun-makers

This also might be of interest.

[Scbang]

Originally Posted by billethkid

The much available (and discussed/mis-used) model "AR-15" is not an automatic weapon!!!

It is a rifle on an AR-15 configuration.

It is one shot with one trigger pull.....shoots as fast as fast as you can repeat pulling the trigger......like most all other firearms!

I did not say it's automatic. I was in the army, I know the difference with M-16.
Even with single fire trigger, it is a whole lot faster killer than a bow. That's my point.

Sadness

[spd2918]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Interesting a quick search showed numbers AS HIGH AS 11% of shooters in schools exhibit serious mental health issues. Up to 20% of mass murderers.

I don't understand your point about knives, fertilizer, etc. Are you suggesting that ;since anything CAN be used as a weapon we should just do nothing? Since you are saying what doesn't work, but not making any suggestion one what to do to stop this uniquely American past time. We are the only country in the world that kills it's children for going to school.

Here is a study by MIH on mental health and mass shootings.

Mental Illness, Mass Shootings, and the Politics of American Firearms - PMC

The point i made shows you can chase your tail all day long by making guns laws and nothing will change. People who want to kill people can still do so without guns.

The press loves to celebrate school shootings for ratings and to further their political agendas. They will shove a camera into a greiving mother's face for ratings. They will rush to judgment and speculate just to stay on a hot topic. They are keen to talk about the shooter, and future shooters want that type of attention.

If the press were to report these pathetic individuals for what they are (lovers, mentally ill, socially awkward), then maybe we would have less repeaters.

[Taltarzac725]

101 California Street shooting - Wikipedia

I remember writing this law firm's partners or something like that after this shooting about getting their help with bringing practical materials for survivors/victims of crimes into libraries of all kinds and they, or whoever responded back then, wrote me that they did not have the resources to do anything about the issue I raised. I think they were thinking more broadly about curbing violence done by weapons meant for soldiers in combat situations and not with my concerns about access to meaningful information for those trying to deal with fallout of these shootings.

I do see stuff in that Act below that address these concerns though.

Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act - Wikipedia

[Trayderjoe]

Originally Posted by Marine1974

I think it’s more like any American can buy weapons that can fire 400 rounds per minute. Even the inventors of these weapons agree it is a weapon designed for Military use in combat .

Actually the AR rifle that is widely owned and still purchased is a semi-automatic version of the military weapon. One trigger pull equals one round of ammunition expended in the civilian version .

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Trayderjoe

IMO, the very loop that this thread has taken is why not enough progress has been made to help reduce these tragic events. Apples are not truly being compared to apples when we compare our past history with our current society, nor when we compare US against other countries. EVERYTHING is not equal and making basic comparisons ignores these differences. For example, how does the use of anti-depressants factor in? Here is a study from 2021 on "America's Epidemic Of Antidepressants" (link). Were antidepressants as prevalent back then as they are now? What are the rates of anti-depressant use in other countries? What are the comparative suicide rates (US today versus the 1950's and US vs other countries)? When we were kids, we were exposed to violence as are kids of today, but WHAT IS DIFFERENT? One easy answer is that when we were kids, we socialized more (read: played) with other children whereas today a segment of the population playing violent video games are doing so online and by themselves.

Instead, how about taking the time understand how human life has become so devalued in our society? Is that too big of a challenge? Well then why don't we try to understand why CURRENT laws are not working and fix what is broken (for whatever reason) before we implement new laws? As an example from an earlier post in this thread: "But, not all somethings are useful. That is obvious, since there are lots of "somethings" being done, useless gun Carol laws that are not enforced and have too many loop holes for example." I asked: "I am curious as to which gun control laws are useless and not enforced and what the many loopholes are that make them useless." I still have not seen a response to this question, although the person who made the former statement has posted multiple times since then.

So if we are to solely focus on new "common sense" gun laws, please explain specifically what these laws would be and correlate how these new laws would have prevented these mass shootings. Given that at least twice in this thread, a statistic of "200 mass shootings have occurred this year" has been cited, I would ask that these proposed laws also be correlated to handgun usage and not just the use of a rifle. Note that I am not disputing the number since it would appear to include gangland style handgun shootings in major urban areas, but it would be helpful if the poster included a link to support the reported number and to provide context. I would also not be at all surprised if the data also shows that HANDGUNS are used more frequently than rifles in mass shooting events.

Oh, and I am looking as well for a definition of what an "assault rifle" actually is. I am not talking about the look or color of a rifle, I am talking about what function in the rifle makes it an "assault rifle". Hint: AR does NOT stand for assault rifle despite what the talking heads say, it stands for ArmaLite rifle after the company that originated the design in the 1950's.

Excellent post and very informative. You even pointed out a few areas of investigation that could potentially help. You obviously are posting in the wrong forum

I heard an NPR interview this morning that asked many of your questions. And one answer was "common sense" gun regulation would be "in the eye of the beholder". I think that is accurate.

I push for opening a dialog on solutions. The country is obviously divided, and one side is NOT going to get what it wants - hence we do not much of anything.

And the obvious answer to your question "what is ASSAULT WEAPON", is pretty obvious. One thing one side is extremely good at is making stupid statements which the other side can then use as talking points against them. Two recent ones being defund the police and assault weapons. Both of which are coined phrases intended to elicit inflamed attitudes in the public. And neither of which accurate represent the actual situation they are addressing. If we could all stop using dog whistles, we might find there are many things we can agree on.

And once again, thank you for the excellent post that actually addressed some points in serious need of discussion.

[Oldragbagger]

My husband and I have both been retired for six years from Baltimore County Schools, but even in the last ten years of working the entire school system had instituted security measures. First, school doors were all locked after morning admission and stayed locked until dismissal. There were cameras at the door so the person seeking admission could be clearly seen before being admitted. School employees had swipe cards and one door for access throughout the school day. There was an an armed School Resource Officer who was an on duty policeman. His office was located close to the front door. All classroom doors were metal and had locks. They had a very small glass window so you could see out. We conducted drills regularly, much like fire drills. Upon hearing a code that signaled we had an armed intruder all classroom doors were locked, lights were turned out, a curtain was placed over the window, children and staff were trained to huddle against the wall at a location far away from the window and keep silent.
It is a sad state of affairs that we need such a protocol in this country, and that children should have to be taught that this might be necessary to protect their lives, but I would hope that every school in the country, no matter the size of the community, will take whatever steps necessary to protect their precious charges. There are measures that can and should be taken.