[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Oldragbagger

My husband and I have both been retired for six years from Baltimore County Schools, but even in the last ten years of working the entire school system had instituted security measures. First, school doors were all locked after morning admission and stayed locked until dismissal. There were cameras at the door so the person seeking admission could be clearly seen before being admitted. School employees had swipe cards and one door for access throughout the school day. There was an an armed School Resource Officer who was an on duty policeman. His office was located close to the front door. All classroom doors were metal and had locks. They had a very small glass window so you could see out. We conducted drills regularly, much like fire drills. Upon hearing a code that signaled we had an armed intruder all classroom doors were locked, lights were turned out, a curtain was placed over the window, children and staff were trained to huddle against the wall at a location far away from the window and keep silent.
It is a sad state of affairs that we need such a protocol in this country, and that children should have to be taught that this might be necessary to protect their lives, but I would hope that every school in the country, no matter the size of the community, will take whatever steps necessary to protect their precious charges. There are measures that can and should be taken.

Whaat you describe is mitigation and every school should implement it until a solution is found. And I 100% agree it is extremely sad.

And, look back over this thread, and ANY thread any where in this country that touches on guns and I think you will find the majority of posts don't offer ANY solutions or even suggestions of solutions, or even calls for cooperation on finding solutions. They simply want to pound their chests about rights.

[DonnaNi4os]

Originally Posted by jebartle

19 innocent children, 2 dedicated teachers, lives lost, solution????? More guns, bigger prisons, NOT. Japan, no guns unless police and military, murder rate .3 percent per 100,000, America, 4.7 per 100,000. Mental health wake up call.

So many excuses for the shooters…bullied, unstable home life. Stop showing these monsters faces on tv. Stop making excuses. These deranged people want their moment in the light even if they die in the process. They are mentally ill, maybe; they are evil for certain. They are cowardly, deranged, evil murderers. Enough. We pray for the families, we cry with them and then our life goes on. Our anger diminishes and then it happens again and again. There have been 14 mass school shooting since Columbine and countless other mass shootings. Enough already. The government needs to start spending money on keeping the schools secure. How does anyone just walk into a school and start shooting?

[Indydealmaker]

Originally Posted by blueash

The Wild West had vigorous gun regulation in the towns and mass slaughters of civilians the likes of which we see so often did not happen.

Do you remember how horrified everyone was by Columbine in 1999. It had never happened before. In the last 22 years there have now been 13 mass school killings, defined as 3 or more deaths in a single incident.

Thoughts and prayers are not working.

However, better parenting by 2 parents would work.

[spd2918]

Please, please, please, separate US inner city gun deaths from the rest of the country when quoting US stats. What happens there does not represent the US as a whole.

[spd2918]

History of School Shootings in the United States | K12 Academics

The first US school shooting was on July 26th, 1764 (yes, we were a British colony at the time).

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

You seem to be focused on the wording, "assault weapon" while ignoring the AR15 is the most popular gun sold in America. It is also designed to "appear" like it's military counter part while meeting government regulations. And of course not least, it is the weapon of choice in most mass shootings since it's release.

So, call it what ever you like...

And, I expect if AR15s were completely 100% banned, then the people wanting to kill a lot of people quickly would simply move to another weapon, like some of those you have pointed out would be much better to use.

So, I personally have no desire to BAN all guns. I think the horse have left that barn. With close to 400 million in circulation there is no practical way to ban them. However, that doesn't mean we should do nothing. Cool down periods, ager restrictions, and other means could be used/tried. And, personally I also would like to see a Federal Law that required some minimum level of control. And if a state is found to not be enforcing that minimum level the state would be held responsible/liable for any casualties that resulted.

One of the correlations that seems pop up in these debates (and I've been part of many) is that the lower the knowledge level, the higher the emotion. The post to which I'm referring makes this point very well. The rifle this Texas nutcase used wasn't an AR-15. It was an AR-15 STYLE rifle, specifically the Model DDM4 V7 rifle made by Daniel Defense of Georgia. Many companies are making these look-alikes since the original Colt patent expired I believe in the late 1970's. There are even BB guns made in this "style". But the term "AR-15" has taken on a sinister connotation and is thus used at every opportunity, even though the weapon isn't an AR-15.

The other overused term is "assault weapon". I had a client once who did some time for assault with a deadly weapon. His "assault weapon" of choice? A table leg, which he ripped off the dining room table and used it to chase some people out the door and down the street. Fortunately they were faster than he was so no harm done, other than of course to the table. An assault weapon, under the law, can be ANYTHING--but of course the term has also taken on a sinister connotation and as such is employed at every opportunity.

Progress will only be made when reason replaces emotion. But more and more, it seems like the opposite is true, not just in this particular debate.

[spd2918]

The Dunblane massacre took place at Dunblane Primary School near Stirling, Scotland, United Kingdom, on 13 March 1996, when Thomas Hamilton shot dead sixteen pupils and one teacher, and injured fifteen others, before killing himself. It remains the deadliest mass shooting in British history.

Dunblane massacre - Wikipedia

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by spd2918

The point i made shows you can chase your tail all day long by making guns laws and nothing will change. People who want to kill people can still do so without guns.

The press loves to celebrate school shootings for ratings and to further their political agendas. They will shove a camera into a greiving mother's face for ratings. They will rush to judgment and speculate just to stay on a hot topic. They are keen to talk about the shooter, and future shooters want that type of attention.

If the press were to report these pathetic individuals for what they are (lovers, mentally ill, socially awkward), then maybe we would have less repeaters.

Yep--and the ironic thing is all this hysteria on the part of media results in two things: copycat crimes and a huge spike in gun sales.

[KAM+6]

Originally Posted by banjobob

The problem is not the gun, the problem is single parent households . The decline of the family unit in not married shacking up and producing babies , pretending to be legitimate, women being left to raise children .Compare Chicago, most gun control in the country ,worst gun violence in the country. Massachusetts no gun permit required ,safest state for gun violence. Politicians scream to repeal allowing gun ownership, Nonsense ! Hold parents responsible for their childrens behavior, period.

Wrong, wrong, Massachusetts has a very strict gun permit law. In fact, it is very difficult to get a gun permit. Why does anyone need a machine gun. They should not be sold to the public.

[spd2918]

Dec. 7, 1999. Veghel, Netherlands

One teacher and three students wounded by a 17-year-old student.

[spd2918]

Mar. 2000 Branneburg, Germany

One teacher killed by a 15-year-old student, who then shot himself. The shooter has been in a coma ever since.

[spd2918]

Jan. 18, 2001 Jan, Sweden

One student killed by two boys, ages 17 and 19

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

One of the correlations that seems pop up in these debates (and I've been part of many) is that the lower the knowledge level, the higher the emotion. The post to which I'm referring makes this point very well. The rifle this Texas nutcase used wasn't an AR-15. It was an AR-15 STYLE rifle, specifically the Model DDM4 V7 rifle made by Daniel Defense of Georgia. Many companies are making these look-alikes since the original Colt patent expired I believe in the late 1970's. There are even BB guns made in this "style". But the term "AR-15" has taken on a sinister connotation and is thus used at every opportunity, even though the weapon isn't an AR-15.

The other overused term is "assault weapon". I had a client once who did some time for assault with a deadly weapon. His "assault weapon" of choice? A table leg, which he ripped off the dining room table and used it to chase some people out the door and down the street. Fortunately they were faster than he was so no harm done, other than of course to the table. An assault weapon, under the law, can be ANYTHING--but of course the term has also taken on a sinister connotation and as such is employed at every opportunity.

Wow an assault weapon can be a table leg. Who would have thought.

Wish our govt would actually enforce the laws already on the books and do more to promote mental health.

[spd2918]

Feb. 19, 2002 Freising, Germany

Two killed in Eching by a man at the factory from which he had been fired; he then traveled to Freising and killed the headmaster of the technical school from which he had been expelled. He also wounded another teacher before killing himself.

[spd2918]

Apr. 26, 2002 Erfurt, Germany

13 teachers, two students, and one policeman killed, ten wounded by Robert Steinhaeuser, 19, at the Johann Gutenberg secondary school. Steinhaeuser then killed himself.