[retiredguy123]

When I look at the big picture, we have a police force to enforce our laws primarily by arresting criminals, so they can be prosecuted and punished, and using force when necessary. That is why they carry guns. Mr. Brooks was obviously a criminal who resisted arrest. The police did their job. They didn't gain anything by killing Mr. Brooks. There is no evidence of racism. And, there is no consensus among the expert pundits that the police used excessive force. So, what does our society gain by punishing the police officers? The officers will get a trial, but, if I were on the jury, I seriously doubt that I could vote to convict those police officers.

[Kerry Azz]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

And a whole lot of new, disgusting, info coming out...justifying those charges.

Not to even mention, the cop that didn't shoot is volunteering to testify...as a state witness.

I'm curious to know, if anyone who originally thought this killing was justified...have now changed their minds?

I'm going to go out on a limb here (just kidding, it's not really that hard to predict)...that very few will raise their hands.

I hope, and would be happy...if I'm wrong though.

More to come.

Lock them up charge them and throw them in general population, imagine if that was your son? Running from the police does not warrant 2 shots in the back and then a few kicks while your dying on the ground. To many bullies with badges they need to be stopped! The

[valuemkt]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

Intelligently and well stated.

yea, very intelligent. Catch and release .. or don;t catch at all .. Did you read about the 'gentleman" in NYC that has been arrested 102 times ?? Yep, send him to a social worker ..

The right to bear arms will reach a fever pitch as vigilante justice will return . Kudos for the Philadelphia gun shop owner who protected his business and his life by blowing away those that broke into his property and aimed a gun at him.. No need to call the police... No need to spend taxpayer money on a trial.. No need for a prison..

Yep, very intelligent and well stated.. Fore warned and fore ARMED

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by mneumann02

You did not answer my question, but I'll answer yours, although you have lumped several questions and statements into one. Yes, more young black men are stopped and more are shot because they commit more crimes and/or fail to comply with a policeman's reasonable request. (This is not denying there are bad cops out there.)

My local paper publishes the pictures of criminals, and it is so sad to see 2 out of 3 are minorities, despite them only making up about 18% of the population. So blaming racism on all the ills of our minority community results in not solving the real issues.

Let's imagine a world where racism ended today and there were no more Confederate or slave owners' statues, no military bases with slave owner names, the book and movie "Gone with the Wind" is banned, etc. Is this going to solve the real problems of the minority community of poverty, atrocious high school dropout rates, young girls condemned to a life of poverty by dropping out of school and having babies, drug use, and most importantly, the breakdown of the family unit- too many children are being raised by one parent or a grandmother or aunt? What if we had real political leaders who created real programs to address these issues? In my imaginary world, everyone stays in school, goes to a trade school or college, and has a $75,000/year job.

Yes, I did answer you.


Please Read This (Click Here)

Originally Posted by petiteone

As a liberal, white woman, professional (Attorney and Surgeon), married parent of 2 sons and foster parent of 6 black children, I am aghast at some of the hateful or ignorant opinions/solutions I read on this thread. My sons were teens when we began fostering (northern state) and we were blessed by their lives.

The local police, however, were after these kids from the day we invited them into our homes. (They were not the only black kids in our community)- Questioning them on where they were going, where they were coming from, how did they get those shoes, why are they walking into this person's drive way, why are they standing out in from of the local theater (along with my bio sons), why are you walking with this (white) girl, frisking their pockets?

My hubby and I spend a lot of time at the police station trying to stop this behavior.

Everyone should foster a black child so see what it's like and what these kids are up against.

Thankfully our neighbors treated the kids with respect. It was the greatest education of my life time and we're still close to each of the kids we fostered. An yes, we put them through college....yes, we gave them free stuff. I'm so disappointed in my fellow whites who think they know the failing of everyone but themselves.

Originally Posted by steve9930

not my work, but very well done and a perfect explanation of why the da in atlanta is an incompetent hack
a very good examination of why shooting the guy was completely justified. Unfortunately, the idiot da has decided to charge the officer with felony murder to appease the blm crowd. Purely political, and will bite them in the ass when the officer is acquitted of the ridiculous murder charge. Then the animals will riot and set fire to atlanta.
"apd shooting explained”
before reading below, remember that officers are afforded the same constitutional rights as citizens, so whether they’re charged for political reasons or not, the facts of the case remain the same until their day in court:
In order to understand this situation, you’ve got to set feelings and emotions aside to understand objective reasonableness.
So looking at this case, what do we know?
A dui investigation determined that he was too intoxicated to drive. The bodycam showed the officers being overly nice and polite to him the entire time all the way up until the handcuffs were about to go on, as they should’ve been.
As soon as they tried to cuff him, an all out brawl took place. Not just resisting, but punching them in the face and throwing them around.
He took one officer’s taser, threw him face first into the asphalt, stood up, and took off.
_____________
so let’s pause there and see where we’re at legally.
Charges:
Dui
obstruction x2 - felony
battery on an officer x2
aggravated assault x2 - felony
strong armed robbery - felony
and believe it or not....
Possession of a firearm during the commission of a crime - felony
per georgia law, a taser is classified as a “less-lethal” firearm as they do occasionally cause death.
(ocga 16-11-106)
________________
these offenses are important because there is a case law called tennessee v garner
what tennessee v garner states is:
“when a non-violent felon is ordered to stop and submit to police, ignoring that order does not give rise to a reasonable good-faith belief that the use of deadly force is necessary, unless it has been threatened.”
so this goes back to the taser being classified as a firearm that can cause death or great bodily harm.
___________
so,
they fought
he stole the taser
he got up and ran
the 2nd officer chased after him and tried to use his own taser against him, but he didn’t get a good connection.
Brooks then turns, aims the taser at the officer, and fires. Statutorily, this is no different than firing a gun.
(the taser that apd carries has 2 cartridges, so brooks could have potentially shot the officer twice.)
the officer dropped his taser from his left hand after it appears he was hit by a barb on the video, draws his sidearm, fires 3 shots, falls against a car in the parking lot and brooks goes down.
Brooks was not only a continuing threat to the officer since he could still fire the taser again, but he also showed and extreme desire to get away, with a weapon. So it is not unreasonable to have the fear that he would use that weapon to carjack a motorist sitting in the drive-thru line, take a hostage, or otherwise hurt another innocent party.
What does georgia law say about deadly force?
Ocga 17-4-20 (b):
Sheriffs and peace officers may use deadly force:
1.) to apprehend a suspected felon only when the officer reasonably believes that the suspect possesses a deadly weapon. (he did)
2.) to apprehend a suspected felon who possesses any object, device, or instrument which, when used offensively against a person, is likely to or actually does result in serious bodily injury. (he did)
3.) to apprehend a suspected felon when the officer reasonably believes that the suspect poses an immediate threat of physical violence to the officer or others (he did)
4.) to apprehend a suspected felon when there is probable cause to believe that the suspect has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm (he did)
the officer only needed one of those requirements, but he had all 4........
Now the reason taser’s are considered “less-lethal” is because when used appropriately, you are “less likely” to kill someone vs using a gun. But brooks hasn’t been through the training to know how to avoid certain vulnerable parts of the body, and he doesn’t understand how neuromuscular incapacitation (nmi) works, which makes it more likely for him to cause great bodily injury or death than if an officer used it.
And just to support the fact that tasers can and do kill, there is an east point officer currently sitting in prison for improperly using a taser and killing a man a few years ago.
(eberhart v georgia)
“he could’ve shot him in the leg!”
right off the top, it is unconstitutional to do so. It is considered cruel and unusual punishment to employ a gun in that manner. Either an officer felt deadly force was necessary, or he should use a lesser response.
We could just leave it at that, but that's too much of a cop out, so let's discuss why it has been deemed unconstitutional. For one thing, that's an extremely difficult shot to make. The target is quite narrow, and in continuous motion as the suspect runs away/charges the officer. Under the best of conditions trying to hit the leg is challenging...to be generous about it. But in a life or death encounter, the officer's fine motor skills will be eroded by the stress of the encounter making the shot, turning a leg shot into a very low probability feat.
Assuming a round does hit the leg, then what? The only way a shot to the leg would immediately stop a threat is by shattering one of the bones, and stopping the threat is the ultimate goal. While it is very difficult to find a shot to the leg that will immediately stop a threat, it is actually comparatively easy to find shots to the leg which eventually prove fatal. Human legs have very large blood vessels which are essentially unprotected (femoral artery)
now remember, we’ve had days to sit back, watch videos, discuss, and analyze this entire thing. The officers had less than a minute from the time the fight started, and less than 5 seconds to interpret everything you just read while running, getting shot at with a taser, and returning fire

excellent analysis and what i assume the defense will use. I vote not guilty.

[sallybowron]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Of course there will be charges filed......pass the buck and let someone else say it was justified. No surprise.

We can always count on you to find the down die of a situation. Smiles,

Originally Posted by Scorpyo

Very accurate. My son is eligible to retire from NYPD in September with 20 years. He was considering doing another 5. Now that consideration is pretty much in the toilet. Discriminating and over charging a person because he is 1 a cop and 2 white is probably going to result in good cops re-evaluating their unappreciated and disrespected vocation. Yes the result could become very sad. But it doesn’t matter. Political ambitions trump everything else.

The goal of anarchists is to destroy order and losing good police officers because of lack of respect for their vocation is the first step. Thanks to your son for his service.

[sallybowron]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

And Ted Williams, paid commentator by Fox, should be believed over all of those who see it differently...because?

As far as being "overcharged," we'll see...as that is also arguable.

I think that falls under the phrase..."throwing the book at them."

1. Brooks was shot in the back,TWICE, while running away and not being a deadly threat to the cop (not only is a taser not considered a "deadly" weapon, it was useless after being discharged twice).

2. Rolfe (the skinhead looking shooter cop) kicked Brooks...as Brooks was laying on the ground dying.

3. The other cop (Brosnan), stood on Brooks shoulder...as Brooks was laying on the ground dying.

4. Brosnan 'policing' the brass from the gun, before any attempt at rendering aid to Brooks...who was laying on the ground dying.

5. Rolfe crowing "I got him" after shooting Brooks (twice, in the back, as a reminder).

6. Brosnan is volunteering to be a state witness and step over that "thin blue line"...that has allowed all too many other LEO's in getting off.


Knowing all of these facts, I predict it won't even go to court...but a plea deal will be worked out.

Hopefully, if justice is served...Rolfe will serve a very long time in prison.

I also predict, that there will be a concerted effort to obfuscate/divert/distract/insert "whataboutism"...into this issue/thread.



But back to my question...has anyone (given the additional facts revealed today), changed from their original position?

If not...why not?

This is disgusting!!

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by petiteone View Post
As a liberal, white woman, professional (Attorney and Surgeon), married parent of 2 sons and foster parent of 6 black children, I am aghast at some of the hateful or ignorant opinions/solutions I read on this thread. My sons were teens when we began fostering (northern state) and we were blessed by their lives.

The local police, however, were after these kids from the day we invited them into our homes. (They were not the only black kids in our community)- Questioning them on where they were going, where they were coming from, how did they get those shoes, why are they walking into this person's drive way, why are they standing out in from of the local theater (along with my bio sons), why are you walking with this (white) girl, frisking their pockets?

My hubby and I spend a lot of time at the police station trying to stop this behavior.

Everyone should foster a black child so see what it's like and what these kids are up against.

Thankfully our neighbors treated the kids with respect. It was the greatest education of my life time and we're still close to each of the kids we fostered. An yes, we put them through college....yes, we gave them free stuff. I'm so disappointed in my fellow whites who think they know the failing of everyone but themselves.




Attorney and Surgeon. Wow. Not only is this woman blessed with a high intelligence but also must be extremely diligent. I do not understand how any person would choose to have eight dependent children. I found it all I could do to raise two and do it right and give them the attention and care and support and love that everyone needs to be a strong and independent person. Maybe she bit off more than she could chew if the children were at the police station a lot. I wish they could have had foster parents who could have concentrated on just two of them. I am sure they had serious emotional issues for being separated from their birth parents. I know that is better than being in a foster home. Wait...it is in a foster home.

With the new community policing the social workers will perhaps be able to remedy the difficulties in the birth home and the children will not have to suffer separation anxiety? And with guidance the parents can find jobs that will enable them to keep their children in their home?

Or am I missing something?

No. I was being deliberately sarcastic. These poor kids. Now they have white do-gooders in the mix. I wish for them the love of their natural parents and a home with financial security. They do not need to be rich or even not poor to be happy, just loved and given the attention of the persons who created them and who will always instinctively protect them.

That is how it looks from my desk this morning with my first coffee cooling by my side. How different could race make parenting?

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Attorney and Surgeon. Wow. Not only is this woman blessed with a high intelligence but also must be extremely diligent. I do not understand how any person would choose to have eight dependent children. I found it all I could do to raise two and do it right and give them the attention and care and support and love that everyone needs to be a strong and independent person. Maybe she bit off more than she could chew if the children were at the police station a lot. I wish they could have had foster parents who could have concentrated on just two of them. I am sure they had serious emotional issues for being separated from their birth parents. I know that is better than being in a foster home. Wait...it is in a foster home.

With the new community policing the social workers will perhaps be able to remedy the difficulties in the birth home and the children will not have to suffer separation anxiety? And with guidance the parents can find jobs that will enable them to keep their children in their home?

Or am I missing something?

No. I was being deliberately sarcastic. These poor kids. Now they have white do-gooders in the mix. I wish for them the love of their natural parents and a home with financial security. They do not need to be rich or even not poor to be happy, just loved and given the attention of the persons who created them and who will always instinctively protect them.

That is how it looks from my desk this morning with my first coffee cooling by my side. How different could race make parenting?

Please read the REASON they were constantly hassled by the cops, while her natural (white) children were right next to them...and WEREN'T hassled.

Some people simply have a larger capacity for giving...than others.

Thank goodness for the good foster parents like her out there that keep kids out of the "system"...instead of the ones that use the kids simply as a revenue stream.

I also thank you for your post, because the attitude is shared by so many others...and PERFECTLY exemplifies the root of the problem/issue.

[Dahabs]

Originally Posted by John41

definitely justified use of force.. if it happened to a white guy no one would care

So you have the guy's car, you know where he lives, he's not a serial killer representing an immediate danger and somehow this is definitely justified use of force? Good judgement call? I can understand many police officers being confused with all the protests going on these days. While I support the police, I think they need to take a step back and understand that changes need to be brought to law enforcement. Perfection is something to strive for.

[Dahabs]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

Sorry, but life (and most issues) can't be answered with just a...yes or no.

And I have never, not even once, said that a LEO doesn't have the right and justification in using deadly force...to protect themselves if their own life is in jeopardy.

From all of the facts, video and eye-witness statements of this incident though...I don't believe deadly force was justified.

Then add the cops actions afterward and....

Since you seem to like yes/no questions though...I have one for you.

Feel free, as I have, to expand on just...the yes or no choice.



Do you believe that more blacks (percentage wise), especially young black men, are stereotyped/stopped/hassled/arrested...more often than young white men in the exact same circumstances?

My quick answer is absolutely. Five years ago I might have said no but I have since read up on the issue and see it much differently.

I think previous interactions with LEOs might have impacted Mr Brooks actions/reactions. Of course we cannot ask him now.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

Please read the REASON they were constantly hassled by the cops, while her natural (white) children were right next to them...and WEREN'T hassled.

Some people simply have a larger capacity for giving...than others.

Thank goodness for the good foster parents like her out there that keep kids out of the "system"...instead of the ones that use the kids simply as a revenue stream.

I also thank you for your post, because the attitude is shared by so many others...and PERFECTLY exemplifies the root of the problem/issue.

My attitude is realistic, not pie in the sky and and not exaggerated. And I hope it is shared by many. My opinion is educated and it is fair. AND It is as I say; realistic. There is so much rhetoric and propaganda being circulated about things that have nothing to do with race...just common sense.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Dahabs

My quick answer is absolutely. Five years ago I might have said no but I have since read up on the issue and see it much differently.

I think previous interactions with LEOs might have impacted Mr Brooks actions/reactions. Of course we cannot ask him now.

I agree.

I think he panicked, knowing that even a DUI...was going to put him back in prison.

He shouldn't have been killed for it though.

In an interview with him about a month prior, he explained how hard it was to reintegrate into society and get a good job...once someone has a record.

I certainly don't have all the answers, but we need to strive on a system that allows those who truly want to turn their lives around be able to do so...after serving their debt to society.

One of human kind's strongest emotions...is the one of 'HOPE.'

When you take hope of a better future away, even if someone has paid the price for their previous bad decisions...not much is left.

This lack of hope that things are getting better for people of color, even those without any criminal activity...is a big driver of the massive protests we're seeing.

That, and the attitude of those who don't care about anyone else's hope by espousing "they did it to themselves" or "they're just that way"...just adds to the problem.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Dahabs

So you have the guy's car, you know where he lives, he's not a serial killer representing an immediate danger and somehow this is definitely justified use of force? Good judgement call? I can understand many police officers being confused with all the protests going on these days. While I support the police, I think they need to take a step back and understand that changes need to be brought to law enforcement. Perfection is something to strive for.

So you are saying that if a person resists arrests after having broken the law, even if it is not a felony, just a misdemeanor ...that you should just let them go and follow their incorrect information to arrest them later? Or is this only for one race? What about the fact that often police have the common sense and good judgement to stop someone in a high crime area for running a stop sign and find buckets of illegal drugs in their car?? Happens all of the time to people driving and drugging of all races. Why is it race??? I don't know. Do you think that more people of one race are arrested??? And if that were true, are they arrested unfairly???