[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

This is the topic and not transgenders competing in all sports. A woman who used to be a man can run in the Paris 2024 Olympics with the men.

There is no such thing as "a woman who used to be a man" as the individual does not have XX chromosomes or a uterus, no matter the hormones, surgeries and female attire. It is biologically impossible! Such a man can only attempt to appear to be a woman.

[Taltarzac725]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST2owT63VIk

"Lindsey Vonn: I’d probably die skiing against men".

I did find this interesting-- a top woman skier who petitioned to compete against the men.

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

A woman who used to be a man can run in the Paris 2024 Olympics with the men. And what would seem fairer is just exactly are this contestant's abilities? Maybe they are slower than all the men?

So what exactly is your point. If my times were slower than all them men, i.e. I would lose, let me compete against the women to improve my odds?

Do you come up with these ridiculous comments all by yourself or do you have help?

[Worldseries27]

Originally Posted by luvnh

i'm a women's rights person and i think this is great news. It is very unfair for women to have to compete against a man in women's clothing.

spot on. I would exchange " unfair" for "criminal intent" to fix a contest. Let the transgenders play sports in their own leagues and contests

[Worldseries27]

Originally Posted by fltpkr

i think that is a silly and completely illogical response to serious issue. No individual or family with children facing a sexual identity issue takes this lightly or treats it as a running joke. No one “wakes up one morning” deciding they are actually of a different sex - it is typically the consequence of years of nagging doubts, frustration and fear, and incredible heartache from trying to fit into the expectations of others and facing the most incredible cruelty when they don’t. Most villagers are old enough and experienced enough to have met people from all walks of life and know that we are not all cut from the same cloth and sexuality is not some hard and fast rule that everyone fits into neatly. I am not speaking to the issue of athletic competition but to all the demeaning, thoughtless, crude and silly comments that this issue provokes.

no jokes, their transgender issues are their problem not ours

[Worldseries27]

Originally Posted by johnsocat

as a woman who served 24 years in the military, i am grateful for the opportunities made available to me by the women (and men) who have fought for women's rights.
It angers me that men are now claiming those rights and protections, which diminishes and negates what those ancestors fought so hard for.

thank you for your service. Could you please explain a little more about your posting. Do not want to prejudge it.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Fltpkr

I think that is a silly and completely illogical response to serious issue. No individual or family with children facing a sexual identity issue takes this lightly or treats it as a running joke. No one “wakes up one morning” deciding they are actually of a different sex - it is typically the consequence of years of nagging doubts, frustration and fear, and incredible heartache from trying to fit into the expectations of others and facing the most incredible cruelty when they don’t. Most Villagers are old enough and experienced enough to have met people from all walks of life and know that we are not all cut from the same cloth and sexuality is not some hard and fast rule that everyone fits into neatly. I am not speaking to the issue of athletic competition but to all the demeaning, thoughtless, crude and silly comments that this issue provokes.

Nice to see some empathy and some class on here.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by Steve

I remember when Annika Sorenstam competed against the men in a couple of PGA tour events and was applauded for doing so. She was competing UP, and I say good for her. But if Rory McIlroy wanted to compete in an LPGA event that would be grossly unfair--even if he wore a skirt. That's exactly what these transgender athletes want to do, have an unfair advantage. Like the transgender swimmer who defeated the best of the women swimmers...what has he/she (?) really accomplished? He couldn't b
eat his male counterparts but he beat the female swimmers. So what?

Interesting, that this does not seem to be too much of an issue among the top performers of whatever sport is in question, except when there are big bucks to be made in these male vs. female deals such as the one quoted about Annika Sorenstam, Venus & Serena Williams, etc. The fringe participants? Another story...

I strongly doubt that sports competition, or whatever advantage one does or does not have, is the real issue here. Like all too much in our society today, IMO, the bulk of this is about MeMeMe. Attention. Your name in this-or-that publication. An interview or two for middling dollars. Maybe a paperback book sold for a ridiculous price at airports or in the $5 bin at Barnes & Noble. And maybe--just maybe--if you make enough noise--an appearance on Oprah. Or some such.

And we buy into the hype: not in any way legitimizing it, but we surely do encourage it.

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by Fltpkr View Post
I think that is a silly and completely illogical response to serious issue. No individual or family with children facing a sexual identity issue takes this lightly or treats it as a running joke. No one “wakes up one morning” deciding they are actually of a different sex - it is typically the consequence of years of nagging doubts, frustration and fear, and incredible heartache from trying to fit into the expectations of others and facing the most incredible cruelty when they don’t. Most Villagers are old enough and experienced enough to have met people from all walks of life and know that we are not all cut from the same cloth and sexuality is not some hard and fast rule that everyone fits into neatly. I am not speaking to the issue of athletic competition but to all the demeaning, thoughtless, crude and silly comments that this issue provokes.

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Nice to see some empathy and some class on here.

1. The person specifically said they were not speaking about the issue of athletic competition. You should have correct them and let them know that we are only talking about women running in the Olympics.
2. The person said they were speaking to all the "demeaning, thoughtless, crude and silly comments that this issue provokes."
Well the issue may provoke that from some people, but it has not occurred on this thread. The overwhelming response has been, let them dress, act, surgically alter however and whatever they want. Just do not try to cheat biological women in sports.

Class is not accusing people of something not being done.

Compassion and empathy is realizing that trans people have a mental disorder (according to DSM-V) which needs to be treated not re-inforced. Imagine if we were compassionate and empathetic with anorexics by saying, Yep, you are fat. Let us help you diet and purge more.

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I'm saying it has to go both ways, and the wording of the laws is unfair and discriminatory. It's saying that transgender WOMEN - only - should not be allowed to join women-only teams. It says nothing about transgender MEN not being allowed to join men-only teams.

If you want to say "transgender people should not be able to join cis-gender teams, but we will have mixed teams and/or transgender-only teams" then that's fine. But singling out transgender women is - discriminatory. By definition.

Regardless of WHY. I even agree with the sentiment. But it's a sticky wicket - what about natural born hermaphrodites? There are humans born with both male and female gonads, raised as male, but not exclusively male. They are also female. Which team would THEY play on? Or should they be excluded from playing on ANY team?

There are also intersex folks - they have a p..e.n..is (can't use a normal scientific word on a forum whose membership is comprised of adults - that's just so pathetic), but they also have ovaries. Or they might have a v.a..gin-a (again) but the musculature and hormones of a man. Or other odd mutations of the reproductive system that makes them neither male, nor female, but a little of both. Which team do THEY get to play on? Or should they also be excluded from playing on ANY team?

This is why it's an issue. Not because these folks want to play "as male/female" on a team. But because - their physiology puts them in an awkward position. They want to play sports. There's no reason to deprive them of the opportunity to play sports. But where do you put them? ALL of them. Not just the trans-women.

If you can name five such people who actually have this condition and who (keeping it in the scope of this thread) legitimately would qualify otherwise to compete in the Olympics, I'll grant the point. Otherwise it is mere sophistry.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

If you can name five such people who actually have this condition and who (keeping it in the scope of this thread) legitimately would qualify otherwise to compete in the Olympics, I'll grant the point. Otherwise it is mere sophistry.

I'll assume that there wouldn't be any, because they've already been told they had to live with the shame of being "other" and no one would pick them anyway as a result. On the other hand, if being something other than straight hetero biological AND psychological male or female only were accepted by society - not as "common" but as "not an aberration/defect of nature worthy of scorn and shame" then there might well have been some, by now.

It's not sophistry. It's called acceptance of "other" even if you don't understand it, or like it, and trying to include everyone in whatever capacity they are able and interested.

No one needs a participation trophy. But everyone should have the opportunity to participate.

[Worldseries27]

Originally Posted by orangeblossombaby

i'll assume that there wouldn't be any, because they've already been told they had to live with the shame of being "other" and no one would pick them anyway as a result. On the other hand, if being something other than straight hetero biological and psychological male or female only were accepted by society - not as "common" but as "not an aberration/defect of nature worthy of scorn and shame" then there might well have been some, by now.

It's not sophistry. It's called acceptance of "other" even if you don't understand it, or like it, and trying to include everyone in whatever capacity they are able and interested.

No one needs a participation trophy. But everyone should have the opportunity to participate.

yes, participate by all means, in their own lanes.

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by Worldseries27

yes, participate by all means, in their own lanes.

So very simple.

[Cybersprings]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

No one needs a participation trophy. But everyone should have the opportunity to participate.

Are you suggesting that everyone should have the opportunity to participate in whatever category they choose, regardless of fairness of competition?

[Taltarzac725]

Say if Bruce Jenner wanted to run at the 2024 Paris Olympics as a woman? Everyone would know that she had been a he. And the same would probably be the case with any Olympian at the Paris 2024 Olympics as to get to that level of competition you have to have become something of a celebrity in your country while qualifying for the Olympics.