[Swoop]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

I couldn't help but notice that you no longer mentioned Ca. As far as which CV statistics are more important - the expression comes to mind, "what past is past and can NOT be controlled, only the future can." At drivers training school you are taught NOT to spend much time looking in the rearview mirror - you control what's in front of you better.

The recent week's CV cases are leading indicators of how each state will probably do in the future. Judging by the cases in those 5 states, hospitals in Fl. and Mi. had better prepare for a greater influx of patients than NY, Pa., and Ca. It also shows that RIGHT NOW as far as CV goes, it would be better to live in NY and Pa than in Fl. And MUCH better in Ca. The CDC puts out those statistics NOT for historical purposes, but as a warning for FUTURE problem areas or hot spots!

Check my post, I never mentioned CA...
You stated that FL opened too early. If that were the case, since we have be open longer that the vast majority of states, we would have seen serious repercussions, resulting in soaring death numbers. It never happened!
Meanwhile NY, PA & MI closed their states down, shut business, restricted family gatherings, etc. and they still suffered more Covid deaths per capita than FL...
Those are the actual facts...

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

There is no natural immunity prior to getting COVID.

then the infection rate would be 100% for anyone how contacted the virus ?

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Swoop

Check my post, I never mentioned CA...
You stated that FL opened too early. If that were the case, since we have be open longer that the vast majority of states, we would have seen serious repercussions, resulting in soaring death numbers. It never happened!
Meanwhile NY, PA & MI closed their states down, shut business, restricted family gatherings, etc. and they still suffered more Covid deaths per capita than FL...
Those are the actual facts...

Good reply!

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Pure rationalization to prove one's original opinion or point of view. Some people think of government as the problem when it mostly is the solution. And we are back to the example of seat belts and the NEED for seat belt MANDATES. Proof positive of what I speak!

Hmm, interesting. And yet, it seems that someone continuously disparages this country in favor of some other countries he has never visited, saying how bad this country is over and over again. Seems like it is the government that controls the perceived image that other countries get of us.
Seat belts should NEVER have been mandated. Americans can make self preservation decisions for themselves without "mandates" from the gov. Most of us do not NEED babysitters.

[Gulfcoast]

Americans have to be able to make decisions for themselves. When the going gets tough we have seen with our own eyes how the government responds. When Covid was at the scariest, government offices and schools shut down leaving private businesses like Publix and Walmart to figure out how to mitigate transmission and serve the public. This is typical government response.

When Congress felt threatened after the Capitol breach, they brought in thousands of National Guard troops, built a fortress around the Capitol and kept themselves safe. In the meantime, average citizens around the country are left to fend for themselves while violent mobs torch and terrorize their cities. And it's still going on. A 9 year old girl in Minneapolis was just shot in the head while she was outside jumping on a trampoline.

We are lucky to live in a state that recognizes the limits of government and values the rights of their citizens to make good decisions for themselves. Law and order is valued here and lawless behavior is not tolerated. We are very lucky.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

Americans have to be able to make decisions for themselves. When the going gets tough we have seen with our own eyes how the government responds. When Covid was at the scariest, government offices and schools shut down leaving private businesses like Publix and Walmart to figure out how to mitigate transmission and serve the public. This is typical government response.

When Congress felt threatened after the Capitol breach, they brought in thousands of National Guard troops, built a fortress around the Capitol and kept themselves safe. In the meantime, average citizens around the country are left to fend for themselves while violent mobs torch and terrorize their cities. And it's still going on. A 9 year old girl in Minneapolis was just shot in the head while she was outside jumping on a trampoline.

We are lucky to live in a state that recognizes the limits of government and values the rights of their citizens to make good decisions for themselves. Law and order is valued here and lawless behavior is not tolerated. We are very lucky.

Very confusing post. On one hand, the post is saying that government is ALL bad, but on the other hand, we need more Police (or other government force) to prevent that little girl from being shot. Make up my mind - more government or no government. To prove which is right I put forth the Seatbelt rule, by which government has saved immense lives and kept hospitals from being overcrowded and saved taxpayer $. And note that it was MANDATE..........a MANDATE AND FREE ENTERPRISE AND THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM WAS NOT HURT IN ANY WAY!!!!!!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

Americans have to be able to make decisions for themselves. When the going gets tough we have seen with our own eyes how the government responds. When Covid was at the scariest, government offices and schools shut down leaving private businesses like Publix and Walmart to figure out how to mitigate transmission and serve the public. This is typical government response.

When Congress felt threatened after the Capitol breach, they brought in thousands of National Guard troops, built a fortress around the Capitol and kept themselves safe. In the meantime, average citizens around the country are left to fend for themselves while violent mobs torch and terrorize their cities. And it's still going on. A 9 year old girl in Minneapolis was just shot in the head while she was outside jumping on a trampoline.

We are lucky to live in a state that recognizes the limits of government and values the rights of their citizens to make good decisions for themselves. Law and order is valued here and lawless behavior is not tolerated. We are very lucky.

Florida is sort of a laughing stock around the US. Late-night TV talks about the "STUPID Florida man". Florida earned that reputation over years of being strange.

[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Very confusing post. On one hand, the post is saying that government is ALL bad, but on the other hand, we need more Police (or other government force) to prevent that little girl from being shot. Make up my mind - more government or no government. To prove which is right I put forth the Seatbelt rule, by which government has saved immense lives and kept hospitals from being overcrowded and saved taxpayer $. And note that it was MANDATE..........a MANDATE AND FREE ENTERPRISE AND THE CAPITALIST SYSTEM WAS NOT HURT IN ANY WAY!!!!!!

I'm sorry to confuse you. The point of government is to work FOR the people, not control the people through excessive mandates.

There is a difference between providing a police force that insures that laws are followed and protects the law abiding citizens in a community and using the police to fine and arrest citizens for daring to open their private businesses or have one too many family members at their Thanksgiving gathering. Government mandates have absolutely hurt this country. You are just lucky to live in a state where sanity has ruled.

Florida got it right. Many states DID NOT.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

If we already have natural immunity to the virus that the vaccine is meant to protect against, then why get a vaccine when we are already immune?

For the people who have been out there all along during this pandemic, keeping things running and making it possible for the more vulnerable to stay safe, I think it's only fair to let those workers decide for themselves whether or not to get the vaccine.

What about those millions of people who have not developed natural immunity (aka not having had Covid already)? Those are the folks who need to be vaccinated. Why risk having a bad outcome from having the disease? Why risk being asymptomatic and STILL developing unbearable long haul Covid side effects? The idea of SAFE herd immunity is what is needed to fight this invisible enemy.

Thank goodness there were enough people willing to be vaccinated against Small Pox so herd immunity was reached and the disease was eradicated. Thank goodness there were enough people willing to be vaccinated against polio so herd immunity was reached and eradicated the disease. Our society has become a society of _______________ You fill in the blank.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

A person with natural immunity doesn't need a vaccination to keep the herd safe.

A person with natural immunity does their part to for our country to achieve herd immunity. But......that was a risk to anyone who was willing to contract the disease or was just an unlucky person who contracted the disease or who did not follow guidelines and was unfortunate to have contracted the disease. I'm sure people did not go and and TRY to contract the Covid virus. Well, maybe there were some stupid kids who were having Covid parties to see how many of them would contract the disease. IMHO, that was truly dumb.

Bottom line.....it is much safer to be vaccinated for Covid than to contract the disease.

‘Natural Immunity’ From Covid Is Not Safer Than a Vaccine - The New York Times

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Agreed. I am not sure how this is related to the economic impact of COVID.

But, I agree with your statement, with the condition that having recovered from one variant of COVID does not necessarily give you immunity to any other - the same is true with Vaccines.

The mRNA vaccines continue to give protection against the variants besides the original strain so I'm not sure what you mean here. This article is dated May 14, 2021............

Vaccines seem to work well against Covid variants. It's also complicated

[Gulfcoast]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

What about those millions of people who have not developed natural immunity (aka not having had Covid already)? Those are the folks who need to be vaccinated. Why risk having a bad outcome from having the disease? Why risk being asymptomatic and STILL developing unbearable long haul Covid side effects? The idea of SAFE herd immunity is what is needed to fight this invisible enemy.

Thank goodness there were enough people willing to be vaccinated against Small Pox so herd immunity was reached and the disease was eradicated. Thank goodness there were enough people willing to be vaccinated against polio so herd immunity was reached and eradicated the disease. Our society has become a society of _______________ You fill in the blank.

It's their life and their risk to take. Most people are not going to get that sick even if they do catch Covid. The most vulnerable people have a high vaccination rate.

Children are far more at risk from other viruses and bacteria than they are from Covid. Keeping them isolated and "safe" has weakened their immune systems. Pregnant women who have stayed isolated and safe are not able to pass healthy antibodies onto their newborns.

There is more than one side to the coin. Covid is a big deal in nursing homes but not a big deal in elementary schools. The important thing is that the most vulnerable have access to the vaccine. Let those who are less vulnerable figure out if they need this vaccine or not.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

A person who has already had the virus is not going to get any benefit, whatsoever, from getting the vaccine. Why should they feel compelled to expose themselves to possible adverse side effects if the vaccination will do them no good anyway?

Donald Trump and Melania had Covid. They were advised by their doctors to get vaccinated. They had their first shots before they left the White House. It is very prudent to get vaccinated even if you have had Covid.......

When Should You Get Vaccinated if You’ve Had COVID-19? – Health Essentials from Cleveland Clinic

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by Gulfcoast

Yes, it is true. And, FWIW, most of the people who are opting not to get the vaccine have some first hand experience with COVID. They are making an informed decision based on their own personal risk factors.

The vaccines have had enough documented, adverse side effects to question the wisdom of getting the vaccine if you've already had and recovered from the virus.

Please give me an example of one adverse side effect. I DO NOT mean the usual side effects such as fever, body aches and generalized flu like symptoms. Tell me about a side effect that is truly adverse.

[Swoop]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

What about those millions of people who have not developed natural immunity (aka not having had Covid already)? Those are the folks who need to be vaccinated. Why risk having a bad outcome from having the disease? Why risk being asymptomatic and STILL developing unbearable long haul Covid side effects? The idea of SAFE herd immunity is what is needed to fight this invisible enemy.

Thank goodness there were enough people willing to be vaccinated against Small Pox so herd immunity was reached and the disease was eradicated. Thank goodness there were enough people willing to be vaccinated against polio so herd immunity was reached and eradicated the disease. Our society has become a society of _______________ You fill in the blank.

If you are not in the vulnerable group, why risk being vaccinated and have a potential long term problem?!?...