[Dust Bunny]

I doubt it! It's part of our heritage, good , bad or indifferent, it happened.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by NoMoSno

So I guess it's OK to be a clansman as long as you apologize...

I would think that being a clansman and saying "sorry" might not cut it, but expressing sorrow for having at one time been one before learning to be a better person, might at least be a step in the right direction.
IMHO, a person can apologize till the cows come home, still for some, that will never be enough. By the same token, there will also be those that will accept the apology and let bye gones be bye gones because they understand that continuing to live in the past or live with hatred serves no good purpose. Still, there are relatively small factions on all sides that continue to sow the seeds of hate and distrust for discord is their life blood and they feed on it like vampires.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

I would think that being a clansman and saying "sorry" might not cut it, but expressing sorrow for having at one time been one before learning to be a better person, might at least be a step in the right direction.
IMHO, a person can apologize till the cows come home, still for some, that will never be enough. By the same token, there will also be those that will accept the apology and let bye gones be bye gones because they understand that continuing to live in the past or live with hatred serves no good purpose. Still, there are relatively small factions on all sides that continue to sow the seeds of hate and distrust for discord is their life blood and they feed on it like vampires.

good post

[NoMoSno]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

I would think that being a clansman and saying "sorry" might not cut it, but expressing sorrow for having at one time been one before learning to be a better person, might at least be a step in the right direction.
IMHO, a person can apologize till the cows come home, still for some, that will never be enough. By the same token, there will also be those that will accept the apology and let bye gones be bye gones because they understand that continuing to live in the past or live with hatred serves no good purpose. Still, there are relatively small factions on all sides that continue to sow the seeds of hate and distrust for discord is their life blood and they feed on it like vampires.

Ask the black families whose relatives were hung by clansmen that were recruited by clansman Sen. Robert Byrd, if it's OK to have a portrait of him in the senate halls.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

Wrong, it's never "OK"...and I never even implied that it was.

What is OK, is admitting you were wrong...and denouncing your old ways, actions & statements.

Or don't you believe people...are allowed to learn, grow and make themselves better?

If you say no, THAT would really...be a depressing thought.

"Learn, grow and make themselves better" is right on the money and applies to everyone.
Most of us are well aware of past and current problems and we should be trying to work together peacefully and respectfully if we ever want to move ahead. Those who engage in dialog should be able to see the whole picture, respect and try to understand all points of view, not just focus on a single aspect.
Like you said, and I agree, "we all need to learn, grow and make" ourselves better..

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Other than perhaps WASPs every nationality has been discriminated against and the vast majority overcame it and live the American dream.

Some people should stop playing the victim and get on with their lives and work for what they want.

Totally agree. Would one rather be a victim or a VICTOR? Racism is NOT systemic, period.

[ColdNoMore]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Other than perhaps WASPs every nationality has been discriminated against and the vast majority overcame it and live the American dream.

Some people should stop playing the victim and get on with their lives and work for what they want.

Remind us again, of how many of those immigrants came here in ropes & chains...and were/bought/sold as property?

Much less laws until the 60's, demanding that they have separate restrooms/water fountains/schools/Etc?

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

Remind us again, of how many of those immigrants came here in ropes & chains...and were/bought/sold as property?

Much less laws until the 60's, demanding that they have separate restrooms/water fountains/schools/Etc?

You do realize that ended 55 plus years ago in terms of separate facilities which of course was incredibly wrong.

Slavery end over 150 years ago perhaps you should get over it.

[billethkid]

And looking back in time applying/making judgements using today's measures is not accurate.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by billethkid

And looking back in time applying/making judgements using today's measures is not accurate.

For some reason people think they can do that in spite of it making no sense.

[roscoguy]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Actually they didnt take up arms to attack the US. They took up arms when the south was invaded.

These may be the original "alternate facts". "The bloodiest four years in American history begin when Confederate shore batteries under General P.G.T. Beauregard open fire on Union-held Fort Sumter in South Carolina’s Charleston Bay." U.S. Civil War Begins - HISTORY

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Talk to folks in the south and they will tell you the war was fought for states rights. A very small percentage of southerners owned slaves and the practice was dying out as it was becoming uneconomic.

More of the same: all 5 of the original states to declare cessation specifically mention slavery. I'm not going to quote each declaration; you can read them for yourself here: The Declaration of Causes of Seceding States | American Battlefield Trust Your second statement here is a no-brainer: armies as a rule are made up mostly of commoners. Nobody ever thought it was only slave owners that did the fighting & dying.

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Having said this slavery was an abhorrent act and should be condemned. However the leaders of that time should be evaluated according to the times.

They are and were being evaluated according to the time. They each fought against the U.S. government to uphold the southern tradition of slavery.

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Robert E Lee did some amazing things after the war and he is an important part of our history and should be remembered.

If he should be remembered because of the amazing things he did after the war, how many of the statues of R.E. Lee DO NOT show him in Confederate military uniform?

[roscoguy]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

You do realize that ended 55 plus years ago in terms of separate facilities which of course was incredibly wrong.

So, everything has been all sunshine & roses for blacks since then?

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

Slavery end over 150 years ago perhaps you should get over it.

Or was it actually since way back then???

[Bay Kid]

Hitler tried to remove history.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by roscoguy

So, everything has been all sunshine & roses for blacks since then?

Or was it actually since way back then???

The US is not perfect but we have made a substantial amount of progress in past 50 years.

[slbellmd]

You are missing the point. Acknowledging the mistakes of the past is not equivalent to celebrating them. No one is suggesting we start naming new streets and erecting new statues to past mistakes. The presence of evidence of these things should serve as a reminder of where we have been and where we should go. When your children made mistakes, did you hope they learned from them and became better persons, or did you disown them? And what happens when the next generation of revisionists comes along and obliterates all of your versions of history?