[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by chet2020

A. You link an article that is labeled "commentary," i.e. an opinion piece.

B. The article you link is dated April 1, 2020. That is ancient history. At that time, it was thought virus transmission was predominantly via surface contact, not airborne. Now we know transmission is predominantly airborne, not surface.

C. Martian linked 17 articles indicating cloth masks are useful. The phrase is "preponderance of the evidence."

LOL The two respiratory specialist Doctors who wrote that commentary looked at all the available studies that tested masks against virus particles. Coronavirus is no different than any virus that transmit thru cough and sneeze droplets or fine particle aerosols. There is no new magic cloth mask technology that can block fine aerosol particles, only N95 can do that.

Filter efficiency was measured across a wide range of small particle sizes (0.02 to 1 µm) at 33 and 99 L/min. N95 respirators had efficiencies greater than 95% (as expected). For the entire range of particles tested, t-shirts had 10% efficiency, scarves 10% to 20%, cloth masks 10% to 30%, sweatshirts 20% to 40%, and towels 40%. All of the cloth masks and materials had near zero efficiency at 0.3 µm, a particle size that easily penetrates into the lungs.

Near zero efficiency

If you think that cloth mask is protecting you from virus aerosols, go for it.

[Klatu]

Well according to my crystal ball:

Infections will rise, and are likely near their peak, then decline. Hysterics will seek out places where there is some exception to the decline and proclaim that the end of civilization is near if we don't lockdown immediately, and forever.

Estimates are the fatality rate will be between 0.5 % and 1.0%. Those estimates will be solidified in near term. The MSM will dispute the low number and insist it must be higher.

Vaccine may not be available until 2021. Surprisingly, it will not be inexpensive.

The election will be hard fought and vicious. Whoever loses will not take it gently. There will be trouble.

Schools that reopen will be the new battlegrounds for political forces. The needs of children to be together and learn in person will be disregarded by hysterics and doomsayers.

2020 will go down as one of the most tormented years in our history.

A man was asked "How long will this virus crisis continue?" He said "I don't know -- I'm a doctor, not a politician."

[Two Bills]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

LOL The two respiratory specialist Doctors who wrote that commentary looked at all the available studies that tested masks against virus particles. Coronavirus is no different than any virus that transmit thru cough and sneeze droplets or fine particle aerosols. There is no new magic cloth mask technology that can block fine aerosol particles, only N95 can do that.

Filter efficiency was measured across a wide range of small particle sizes (0.02 to 1 µm) at 33 and 99 L/min. N95 respirators had efficiencies greater than 95% (as expected). For the entire range of particles tested, t-shirts had 10% efficiency, scarves 10% to 20%, cloth masks 10% to 30%, sweatshirts 20% to 40%, and towels 40%. All of the cloth masks and materials had near zero efficiency at 0.3 µm, a particle size that easily penetrates into the lungs.

Near zero efficiency

If you think that cloth mask is protecting you from virus aerosols, go for it.

But still a % better than nothing at all.
Which for those who do not have the option to stay at home like you, and have to go out,it is at least some protection against droplets above the 0.3 particles.
Wearing a bullet proof vest, does not stop you getting shot in the leg!

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

But still a % better than nothing at all.
Which for those who do not have the option to stay at home like you, and have to go out,it is at least some protection against droplets above the 0.3 particles.
Wearing a bullet proof vest, does not stop you getting shot in the leg!

Yes, I agree they are better than nothing and if I had to enter buildings with people I would wear one. The safest choice is to not do it.

[Aloha1]

Originally Posted by Klatu

Well according to my crystal ball:

Infections will rise, and are likely near their peak, then decline. Hysterics will seek out places where there is some exception to the decline and proclaim that the end of civilization is near if we don't lockdown immediately, and forever.

Estimates are the fatality rate will be between 0.5 % and 1.0%. Those estimates will be solidified in near term. The MSM will dispute the low number and insist it must be higher.

Vaccine may not be available until 2021. Surprisingly, it will not be inexpensive.

The election will be hard fought and vicious. Whoever loses will not take it gently. There will be trouble.

Schools that reopen will be the new battlegrounds for political forces. The needs of children to be together and learn in person will be disregarded by hysterics and doomsayers.

2020 will go down as one of the most tormented years in our history.

A man was asked "How long will this virus crisis continue?" He said "I don't know -- I'm a doctor, not a politician."

Varada Nicto! FYI, in the script they spelled it with 2 a's (Klaatu).

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by jojo

That the process for vaccine development should be transparent is the point that the director of the National Institutes for Health made on Meet the Press yesterday.

Interesting. So, private industry that pays enormous amounts of money on research and development, should turn over all their work to other countries that already ride on our coattails? And they should just absorb the cost of millions/billions of dollars? How many businesses would stay in business if they gave all their research away so others could make money off of them? If it was the Gov. that was doing all the research, I could possibly agree with sharing information, but not private industry. I am sure the folks that live off of the market would not like it so much if pharma was giving all their research away.

[Byte1]

[QUOTE=DON10E;1806496]

Originally Posted by jmpalladino

Sorry, the government will force people to take the vaccine, like it or not. They Will hold you down and give you the shot. This is clear from constitutional lawyers.

They say you can pass on a vaccine that will protect you (like the flu), but if a vaccine will protect others (Like the highly contagious Corona virus) you have no choice.

That’s what they say. Please don’t argue without posting your sources or personal constitutional credentials.

Maybe the Gov CAN force the population to take the vaccine, but they WON'T. It won't happen no matter how many screamers declare that others have to do it to protect them. I would also like to see your sources that say the GOV WILL force the population to take the vaccine.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

The whole herd idea is wrong and bizarro! It takes 60% positive cases to achieve "herd immunity". Florida has 14% today positive cases today. (St Pete has 9% because they went to masks). Sweden's overall deaths are 11 times neighboring Norway. Only 25% of Swedes in Stockholm have been exposed. They ADMIT that their "herd immunity" attempt did not work. Just Google that! But, all the charts in the world are not as significant as the fact that the US is #1 in the world for mishandling the CV Plague. We should only have about 60,000 deaths today. The US is currently # 5 in world ranking for deaths (and rising due to rising case). I don't understand the effort to misinform the Villiage people by poo - pooing the problem - what is the motivation for that? To kill as many Village people as possible?

You are assuming that anyone that has not been tested does not have the virus. You do not know how many have or had the virus and have never been tested. The more testing we do, the more positives we have and yet most of those tested have NO symptoms.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

LOL The two respiratory specialist Doctors who wrote that commentary looked at all the available studies that tested masks against virus particles. Coronavirus is no different than any virus that transmit thru cough and sneeze droplets or fine particle aerosols. There is no new magic cloth mask technology that can block fine aerosol particles, only N95 can do that.

Filter efficiency was measured across a wide range of small particle sizes (0.02 to 1 µm) at 33 and 99 L/min. N95 respirators had efficiencies greater than 95% (as expected). For the entire range of particles tested, t-shirts had 10% efficiency, scarves 10% to 20%, cloth masks 10% to 30%, sweatshirts 20% to 40%, and towels 40%. All of the cloth masks and materials had near zero efficiency at 0.3 µm, a particle size that easily penetrates into the lungs.

Near zero efficiency

If you think that cloth mask is protecting you from virus aerosols, go for it.

This article explains how cloth masks not only block droplets but block aerosols too.....

Cloth masks can block aerosol-sized particles, prevent Covid-19 spread - The Week

[coffeebean]

Goodlife.......One more point I would like to make about your post claiming cloth masks do not protect us against aerosols. I don't wear a mask to protect myself although there have been articles that claim there is a small degree of protection to the wearer. I wear a mask to protect others and that includes you. My mask blocks droplets and aerosols from escaping into the air. I just hope people around me wear a mask to protect me.

Universal masking will slow the spread of this virus and FINALLY we have some direction from President Trump that he wants us to wear masks. He said wearing a mask is not political; it is patriotic.

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

Goodlife.......One more point I would like to make about your post claiming cloth masks do not protect us against aerosols. I don't wear a mask to protect myself although there have been articles that claim there is a small degree of protection to the wearer. I wear a mask to protect others and that includes you. My mask blocks droplets and aerosols from escaping into the air. I just hope people around me wear a mask to protect me.

Universal masking will slow the spread of this virus and FINALLY we have some direction from President Trump that he wants us to wear masks. He said wearing a mask is not political; it is patriotic.

I take my cues from science, not politicians. Your cloth mask can block larger droplets from emitting to others, but does very little to block very small particles. Your breath is moist, in a short time the pores of the material become blocked by moisture and then your breath is exhaled around the edge of the mask. Cloth masks even when dry have pores much to large to block the small particles. This study by 2 experts looked at 52 studies of masks and found little evidence for efficient source control.

Commentary: In Mask Debate, Social Distancing Remains Priority | School of Public Health | University of Illinois at Chicago

DR Fauci in a recent interview stated he would not get in an airplane or enter a restaurant, mask or not. Why do you think he says that?

Masks are better than nothing, but are not a replacement for social distancing. This is why I don't enter buildings other than home. Not worth the risk mask or not. I realize that people who work have no choice, but most of them are much younger than I am.

[coffeebean]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

I take my cues from science, not politicians. Your cloth mask can block larger droplets from emitting to others, but does very little to block very small particles. Your breath is moist, in a short time the pores of the material become blocked by moisture and then your breath is exhaled around the edge of the mask. Cloth masks even when dry have pores much to large to block the small particles. This study by 2 experts looked at 52 studies of masks and found little evidence for efficient source control.

Commentary: In Mask Debate, Social Distancing Remains Priority | School of Public Health | University of Illinois at Chicago

DR Fauci in a recent interview stated he would not get in an airplane or enter a restaurant, mask or not. Why do you think he says that?

Masks are better than nothing, but are not a replacement for social distancing. This is why I don't enter buildings other than home. Not worth the risk mask or not. I realize that people who work have no choice, but most of them are much younger than I am.

I read the entire article. I'm not convinced that cloth masks are pretty much worthless for source control. I've seen YouTube videos which show (using infrared cameras) how droplets and aerosols are expelled from a person's mouth and nose when not wearing a mask while the person was breathing and speaking in a normal tone. That same person, wearing a cloth mask, breathing and speaking expelled what appeared to be 98% less droplets and aerosols. That video convinced me that cloth masks will help to slow the spread of this vile virus. Two people, wearing masks, speaking to each other and distanced by at least 6 feet, makes me feel safe. That is all I ask during a pandemic.

Dr. Fauci is a national treasure but I would not take every single thing he says as gospel. Personally, I see no reason not to go into a restaurant when social distancing is guaranteed and all servers wear masks. I know there is risk but that is a risk hubby and I are willing to take. Our "social circle" consists of the two of us so we never sit at a table larger than a two top.

Getting on an airplane? That is not a risk I'm willing to take and hubby is also agreeable with that. Hopefully, our safety radar will change in the future because we love to cruise. And.....that is another risk we are not willing to take even when cruise ships begin to sail. We will wait for an effective and safe vaccine before we get on an airplane or a cruise ship.

[DON10E]

[QUOTE=Byte1;1807622]

Originally Posted by DON10E

Maybe the Gov CAN force the population to take the vaccine, but they WON'T. It won't happen no matter how many screamers declare that others have to do it to protect them. I would also like to see your sources that say the GOV WILL force the population to take the vaccine.

Don’t be so sure. There are a lot of things happening recently That I never thought I’d see.

[DON10E]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

I read the entire article. I'm not convinced that cloth masks are pretty much worthless for source control. I've seen YouTube videos which show (using infrared cameras) how droplets and aerosols are expelled from a person's mouth and nose when not wearing a mask while the person was breathing and speaking in a normal tone. That same person, wearing a cloth mask, breathing and speaking expelled what appeared to be 98% less droplets and aerosols. That video convinced me that cloth masks will help to slow the spread of this vile virus. Two people, wearing masks, speaking to each other and distanced by at least 6 feet, makes me feel safe. That is all I ask during a pandemic.

Dr. Fauci is a national treasure but I would not take every single thing he says as gospel. Personally, I see no reason not to go into a restaurant when social distancing is guaranteed and all servers wear masks. I know there is risk but that is a risk hubby and I are willing to take. Our "social circle" consists of the two of us so we never sit at a table larger than a two top.

Getting on an airplane? That is not a risk I'm willing to take and hubby is also agreeable with that. Hopefully, our safety radar will change in the future because we love to cruise. And.....that is another risk we are not willing to take even when cruise ships begin to sail. We will wait for an effective and safe vaccine before we get on an airplane or a cruise ship.

The risk is not measured by whether you can contact the. Iris, but by whether it will kill you. The real risk exists for the vulnerable population with co-morbidities or advanced age. God help you if you’re trapped in a nursing home.

For the rest of us, we have almost total control over whether we get this or not.

Oh, and since 55% of the cases are in 6 counties of Florida (out of 66 total counties). Why do we insist on talking about “Florida”? A State is way too big to have one set of rules on this.

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by coffeebean

I read the entire article. I'm not convinced that cloth masks are pretty much worthless for source control. I've seen YouTube videos which show (using infrared cameras) how droplets and aerosols are expelled from a person's mouth and nose when not wearing a mask while the person was breathing and speaking in a normal tone. That same person, wearing a cloth mask, breathing and speaking expelled what appeared to be 98% less droplets and aerosols. That video convinced me that cloth masks will help to slow the spread of this vile virus. Two people, wearing masks, speaking to each other and distanced by at least 6 feet, makes me feel safe. That is all I ask during a pandemic.

Dr. Fauci is a national treasure but I would not take every single thing he says as gospel. Personally, I see no reason not to go into a restaurant when social distancing is guaranteed and all servers wear masks. I know there is risk but that is a risk hubby and I are willing to take. Our "social circle" consists of the two of us so we never sit at a table larger than a two top.

Getting on an airplane? That is not a risk I'm willing to take and hubby is also agreeable with that. Hopefully, our safety radar will change in the future because we love to cruise. And.....that is another risk we are not willing to take even when cruise ships begin to sail. We will wait for an effective and safe vaccine before we get on an airplane or a cruise ship.

I'm sorry but those youtube videos are worthless.

Here's a study of a meat processing plant in Germany where facemasks were mandatory. Everyone wore masks yet most within 8 meters of the mask wearing asymptomatic spreader were infected over 3 day period.

Investigation of a superspreading event preceding the largest meat processing plant-related SARS-Coronavirus 2 outbreak in Germany by Thomas Guenther, Manja Czech-Sioli, Daniela Indenbirken, Alexis Robitailles, Peter Tenhaken, Martin Exner, Matthias Ottinger, Nicole Fischer, Adam Grundhoff, Melanie Brinkmann :: SSRN

Look, masks help but are obviously not a guarantee of safety. That's why I choose not to go anywhere I might need one.