[Arctic Fox]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I understand that an E-Verify check is easy and can be done in a few minutes. So, why would the law apply only to companies with 25 or more employees? It seems to defy logic.

Will be interesting to see how many companies currently employing >25 will split into several companies employing <25

[retiredguy123]

My guess is that there will be almost no enforcement of the law, like other Florida laws.

I'm still trying to figure out how to get my $500 for every telemarketing phone call I receive, as per another unenforceable law.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I understand that an E-Verify check is easy and can be done in a few minutes. So, why would the law apply only to companies with 25 or more employees? Are they trying to discriminate against large companies? Or, are they encouraging small companies to violate the law by hiring illegals. It seems to defy logic.

Seems to me they're encouraging large companies to "pass the buck" by subcontracting to smaller companies, thus driving up prices as the larger companies become the middle-man and take their cut of the tab.

Home Depot already does this, and has been doing it for ages. When you buy new flooring from Home Depot and it includes installation, the 3 guys who come to your house aren't Home Depot employees. They're subcontractors who typically work for a company with fewer than 10 employees total.

If the guys are your house are undocumented immigrants, YOU won't ever know. Because they're not obligated to show their "papers" to YOU.

[Number 10 GI]

Back in the early 2000's, if I remember the time frame correctly, while living in Tennessee, there was a labor shortage in the state and in particular the larger cities. There were a number of news reports about the shortage and one that was interesting was a restaurant in Nashville was having difficulty hiring and keeping a dish washer. The restaurant had to pay a college student $10.00 an hour to take the job. At that time that was a pretty good hourly rate for that area. Granted there were no benefits but for a college student it paid more money than a lot of other service industry jobs. It wasn't too much later that the city was flooded with illegals who worked for a lot less an hour than a legal citizen would accept and a lot of legal citizens lost jobs.
About 8 years ago, while still living in Tennessee, we had to have a new roof on our house. We contracted with a roofer to have the work done. The guy doing the roofing work for the contractor had been a roofing contractor himself just year earlier. All his competition laid off their legal citizen workers and hired illegals. They were paying less than what a citizen would work for and were able to underbid him because he refused to hire illegals, employing only citizens that cost more in labor. His business folded as he refused to hire illegals.
I worked in real estate for a couple years in the late 80's. When I toured new construction, the workers building the new homes were American citizens. That all changed in the early 2000's when illegals started flooding the area. The only legal citizens on the work sites were the contractor and his foreman and the electricians and plumbers because they required licensing which was very difficult for an illegal to obtain. All these jobs for legal citizens were lost because the illegals work for less money.
They aren't doing jobs Americans won't do, they are working jobs Americans won't do for the wage being offered. Pay a decent wage and Americans will do the work. Of course that will mean the product/service will cost more and that is unacceptable because everyone wants everything as cheap as they can possibly get it. That is why nearly everything in the stores are made in China.
The argument that illegals are only doing jobs Americans won't do is just to justify the questionable morality of people who are willing to let illegals come into the country so they can be exploited for their willingness to work for lower wages.
My tirade is getting a bit long but one more observation. When I started working for the State of Tennessee, the people that cleaned the offices were Americans. The contractors discovered that illegals worked for a lot less and suddenly there were no more Americans cleaning the building. A lot of American citizens lost jobs to illegals because of greed by employers and Americans demanding cheaper products and services.

[Keefelane66]

Originally Posted by Arctic Fox

Will be interesting to see how many companies currently employing >25 will split into several companies employing <25

Bingo

[CoachKandSportsguy]

This take/analysis is post on correct the key is highlighted in bold

Originally Posted by Number 10 GI

. . . They aren't doing jobs Americans won't do, they are working jobs Americans won't do for the wage being offered. Pay a decent wage and Americans will do the work. Of course that will mean the product/service will cost more and that is unacceptable because everyone wants everything as cheap as they can possibly get it. That is why nearly everything in the stores are made in China.
The argument that illegals are only doing jobs Americans won't do is just to justify the questionable morality of people who are willing to let illegals come into the country so they can be exploited for their willingness to work for lower wages.
My tirade is getting a bit long but one more observation. When I started working for the State of Tennessee, the people that cleaned the offices were Americans. The contractors discovered that illegals worked for a lot less and suddenly there were no more Americans cleaning the building. A lot of American citizens lost jobs to illegals because of greed by employers and Americans demanding cheaper products and services.

Absolutely correct, so the result is that the MSM paid by corporations or who get their income from corporates tell you the story with a slight of words that Americans don't want to be hired or work.

what you read is not always the real story or reasons, but ones that corporates who are willing to exploit anyone wants you to hear.

Corps only want a 30-30-30 employee
30 years old
30 years experience
$30K per year

Fooq that!

[Skunky1]

Stupid law with all the fancy frills with no teeth!

[maggie1]

. The restaurant had to pay a college student $10.00 an hour to take the job. At that time that was a pretty good hourly rate for that area. Granted there were no benefits but for a college student it paid more money than a lot of other service industry jobs. It wasn't too much later that the city was flooded with illegals who worked for a lot less an hour than a legal citizen would accept and a lot of legal citizens lost jobs.

They aren't doing jobs Americans won't do, they are working jobs Americans won't do for the wage being offered. Pay a decent wage and Americans will do the work. Of course that will mean the product/service will cost more and that is unacceptable because everyone wants everything as cheap as they can possibly get it. That is why nearly everything in the stores are made in China.

The argument that illegals are only doing jobs Americans won't do is just to justify the questionable morality of people who are willing to let illegals come into the country so they can be exploited for their willingness to work for lower wages.

My tirade is getting a bit long but one more observation. When I started working for the State of Tennessee, the people that cleaned the offices were Americans. The contractors discovered that illegals worked for a lot less and suddenly there were no more Americans cleaning the building. A lot of American citizens lost jobs to illegals because of greed by employers and Americans demanding cheaper products and services.[/QUOTE]

And yet with all of the so-called job loss due to illegal immigrants stealing our work, we still enjoy an average of 3% unemployment. I don't see how the illegals are hurting our economy or stealing work. How about a kid making $20 an hour to work at Mcdonald's? It's no wonder a Big Mac and fries are around $10 a meal. There's work out there for anyone who looks for it. The problem is we have many that would rather stay home and collect unemployment instead of working. Too many people believe they are owed something in life, and I say that we owe them nothing.

[ithos]

Originally Posted by Papa_lecki

Or Option C

C) fix the legal immigration system so this class of workers can come into the country legally, based on the need in the country.

You can not have a functioning legal immigration system with wide open borders.

This country has had a long and very successful history of setting immigration policies to match employment needs. It resulted in decades of rising standard of living and creating the greatest industrial power in the world. We won WW2 primarily because of our ability to produce armaments.

In the three years following the Battle of Midway, the Japanese built six aircraft carriers. The U.S. built 17. American industry provided almost two-thirds of all the Allied military equipment produced during the war: 297,000 aircraft, 193,000 artillery pieces, 86,000 tanks and two million army trucks. In four years, American industrial production, already the world's largest, doubled in size.
War Production | The War | Ken Burns | PBS

And we did that with LEGAL immigration.

Considering that we have a massive welfare state that offers free education, medical care, and so much more, the de facto policy of today that all 8 billion people in the world have a implicit right to come our country with virtually no screening is INSANE!

[Jazzman]

Originally Posted by ithos

You can not have a functioning legal immigration system with wide open borders.

This country has had a long and very successful history of setting immigration policies to match employment needs. It resulted in decades of rising standard of living and creating the greatest industrial power in the world. We won WW2 primarily because of our ability to produce armaments.

In the three years following the Battle of Midway, the Japanese built six aircraft carriers. The U.S. built 17. American industry provided almost two-thirds of all the Allied military equipment produced during the war: 297,000 aircraft, 193,000 artillery pieces, 86,000 tanks and two million army trucks. In four years, American industrial production, already the world's largest, doubled in size.
War Production | The War | Ken Burns | PBS

And we did that with LEGAL immigration.

Considering that we have a massive welfare state that offers free education, medical care, and so much more, the de facto policy of today that all 8 billion people in the world have a implicit right to come our country with virtually no screening is INSANE!

It is evident that the only “immigrants” who have the right are those coming across the southern border. Those pending real immigrants , the ones being mistreated are those from other countries who applied for legal immigration by applying at a US embassy. They are the ones being mistreated as they are waiting years to legally enter the country. As we all know, if you arrive on an international flight or ship from a foreign country, try getting past US Customs at port of entry without the proper legal documents. You can’t.

[Rzepecki]

Originally Posted by JoelJohnson View Post
We have a major problem getting people to work. So why don't we make it easy for these people to come into the country legally? They are willing to do the jobs that most Americans do not want to do. They pay taxes from their pay and when they buy stuff. MOST just want what we want, peace, safety and a place to raise a family without the fear of being killed.


This was clearly written a long time ago……..

The United States prides itself on being a nation of immigrants, and the country has a long history of successfully absorbing people from across the globe. The integration of immigrants and their children contributes to our economic vitality and our vibrant and ever changing culture. QUOTE=Kelevision;2222810]

I wish, I wish, I wish . . .

Thank you. I felt so good reading your messages. Wish everyone remembered and lived this way.

[Zenmama18]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Note that the law will only apply to employers with 25 or more employees. I suspect that larger companies will circumvent the law by hiring smaller companies to do a lot of their work.

Or treat them as independent contractors.

[Bridget Staunton]

Papa Levi:
Exactly my sentiments, fix the law & if we need immigrants bring them in

[airstreamingypsy]

Originally Posted by JoelJohnson

We have a major problem getting people to work. So why don't we make it easy for these people to come into the country legally? They are willing to do the jobs that most Americans do not want to do. They pay taxes from their pay and when they buy stuff. MOST just want what we want, peace, safety and a place to raise a family without the fear of being killed.

I completely agree and I'm happy to see this post. The problem is a large part of the population has been trained to be frightened of people who are not white and shiny because they are "rapists and murderers."

[airstreamingypsy]

Originally Posted by ithos

You can not have a functioning legal immigration system with wide open borders.

WE DO NOT HAVE OPEN BORDERS. Those of us who don't have a problem with immigrants don’t want open borders, we just want immigration policies that make sense. A good place to start is admitting that we need immigrant labor. If you don’t think so talk to a farmer. In order for immigrants to stop acting as a wage suppressant, we might try treating them like human beings rather than things that exist purely for the purpose of exploitation.

Another part of the equation would be foreign policy objectives that seek to help stabilize the economies of countries where asylum-seekers are coming from. The current crisis on our southern border is due to intolerable living conditions in failing states in Central America. If we don’t deal with these tottering states the crisis will never end. Sometimes anyplace-else is better than where you are.

My friends want common sense immigration policies that treat immigrant labor with simple humanity rather than crass exploitation. This is a country built by immigrants. It seems to me that an immovable anti-immigrant position is just a denial of our historical legacy.