[johnblackwell]

Originally Posted by Tvflguy

Finally, irresponsible parent(s) are being held liable and charged. Hopefully this may affect these horrible shootings by troubled kids.

BTW Dr Phil had a wonderful episode on this topic. He, and other leaders may have an impact to alleviate these shootings. His stats show that 94% of these shooters had told other students or posted their plans.

How about charging the grandparents for raising irresponsible parents?

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by TheWarriors

I don’t think you quite understand why the Second Amendment exists. Perhaps you would like to apply the same logic to all the other Amendments?

I sure do understand it. Seems a lot of people don't though.

The "why" isn't "why do we still have 2a" or "why wasn't 2a better clarified?" It's "why does it exist?"

It exists because at the time of the founding of this country, we didn't have the National Guard. Our country wasn't a "United" states of America, it was individual states working together to ensure freedom from Britain and a tyrannical government. So when it came time to fight Britain, the people (also known as We The People) rose up together, formed our militias, and brought our own weapons to the fight. We didn't have armories that provided arms for us. We had to use our own. But carrying a firearm in public was ILLEGAL at the time. And so - the right of THE PEOPLE...to keep and bear arms - was adopted.

That is the reason the 2nd Amendment exists.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Zincbemi

A question: You are a neighbor and the child Nextdoor takes your gun without your permission and commits a school shooting. Are you responsible?

Was the house locked??

Was the child allowed to enter the house in the past??

Was the child trespassing??

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

There is no slippery slope. Children are allowed to have fists. 16-year-olds are allowed to drive cars. 16 year olds are not allowed to buy weapons.

In Florida:

A minor under 18 can possess a firearm at home if it is unloaded and they are participating in legal activities. These activities include hunting and sporting events under the supervision of a parent, guardian, or certified instructor.

So if the kid is NOT being supervised by a parent, guardian, or certified instructor, then the kid is NOT allowed to possess the firearm.

You also have to be 21 in order to buy one in Florida.

Your parents are responsible for you until you turn 18. If the kid got their gun from their home, either they had the supervision of their parent/guardian - in which case the parent/guardian is guilty of aiding and abetting the kid's crime - or they didn't have that supervision - in which case the parent is guilty of negligence.

That parents are being charged at all proves there is a slope and your last paragraph describes how slippery it is.

This seems like the equivalent of looking for deep pockets in a lawsuit. If the person committing the crime is a minor then you can also go after the parents for your pound of flesh.

I'm sure there are some cases where the parents truly were negligent and should face some repercussions. Maybe thus is one of those cases. But charging parents ought to be the rars exception and not the new standard.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

2nd Amendment says right to a well armed militia and not the individual's right to own military style weapons.

What YOU just posted and what is constantly the refrain following any shooting event dances all around the issue and any solution to the issue. Laws will not and CANNOT keep people who SHOULD not have guns from getting them. They can steal them and they do. If they are in certain groups they know just how to get them for sure.

[SaucyJim]

Originally Posted by phylt

--------------------

Sorry - I am a Conservative and see the validity of the Second Amendment.

But - enough is enough - we MUST act in this country, despite the 'slippery slope'. We MUST hold parents responsible - especially in the case of the last two shootings (MI & GA). In MI the parents were convicted, and the recent GA case is pretty cut and dry. Parents MUST accept responsibility. Even for minor offenses such as robbery, driving, etc. The buck must stop somewhere. Kids AND parents must be RESPONSIBLE for their actions.

Are you saying that if you are a descendant of slave owners that you should pay a price for their sins?

The knife could cut both ways.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

That parents are being charged at all proves there is a slope and your last paragraph describes how slippery it is.

This seems like the equivalent of looking for deep pockets in a lawsuit. If the person committing the crime is a minor then you can also go after the parents for your pound of flesh.

I'm sure there are some cases where the parents truly were negligent and should face some repercussions. Maybe thus is one of those cases. But charging parents ought to be the exception and not an acceptable knee jerk reaction.

There have been only two cases that I am aware of, of the parents being charged...The shooting in Michigan where both parents were in fact convicted and now this one and I believe this father is indeed culpable and should be charged.

[SaucyJim]

Originally Posted by Byte1

The 2nd does not prohibit the right to own a military style weapon either. Unfortunately, most NON-gun citizens do not know the difference between a military weapon and a non-military weapon. When the 2nd was written, the same weapons for self defense and hunting were used in combat. We can argue all day regarding what weapons should be allowed or disallowed, but it makes no difference when it comes to mass killings. four folks killed in a school can be killed with the average hunting rifle, knife, hatchet, bow and arrow, or a simple 22cal rifle.
This subject is not about type of weapon used, but the fact that the parent was charged with the crime, along with his son.

Correct me if I’m wrong here. A military style weapon is not a military weapon. A military weapon is fully automatic. You can have the same firepower out of a non-military style weapon that is a semi automatic. I always wonder why we want to treat a weapon differently because it looks different.

[retiredguy123]

This case reminds me of the guy who is given a speeding ticket for going 65 mph in a 60 mph zone when every other driver is going 85 mph. I don't mind holding parents responsible if all parents are prosecuted equally. That is the duty of law enforcement, including the District Attorney.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

What YOU just posted and what is constantly the refrain following any shooting event dances all around the issue and any solution to the issue. Laws will not and CANNOT keep people who SHOULD not have guns from getting them. They can steal them and they do. If they are in certain groups they know just how to get them for sure.

That is the logic that says "get rid of all laws, because if people are in certain groups they'll know just how to break them anyway."

The reason we have laws, rather than no laws, is so that there can be consequences for our actions.

Yes, you can break a law that says "you shouldn't have a gun" and have one anyway, and then use it to kill someone.

But when you do that, you're now breaking TWO laws. The one where you killed someone AND the one that said you weren't supposed to have the gun in the first place. When this happens, it's easier to convict the criminal, AND it results in a stiffer penalty - imprisonment, fines, community service, parole - whatever it is, it's harsher because you broke that "you shouldn't have that gun" law.

Guns don't kill people. Only people kill people. So stop letting people have the guns? The guns won't shoot themselves if they're just sitting in a lockbox in a warehouse of a gun factory, afterall. That would be the logical conclusion to that argument.

The pro-2a rhetoric is to hold onto their firearms no matter what, for no reason other than they read on a 200+year-old piece of paper that they had the right to hold onto it, and the NRA has pushed their agenda to ensure they don't go bankrupt. They need sycophants and followers even more now than ever.

If someone wants a pistol in their home for self-defense, or a rifle for their farm to keep the coyotes away from their chickens, or a hunting rifle to shoot for their supper, I'm all for it. 100% pro-gun.

But there is no reason for any civilian to bring a firearm to a school, unless you plan on killing people with it. There is no reason for any civilian to bring a firearm to a church, unless you plan on killing people with it. There is no reason for any civilian to bring a semi-automatic rifle anywhere, public or private other than the shooting range, unless you are planning on killing people with it.

Guns are the tools of death. Unlike a knife, a gun can't gut a fish. Unlike an ice pick, a gun won't cleanly cut a chunk of ice off a block for your mai tai. Unlike a car, a gun won't get you from point A to point B. All of these things can be used as weapons. But of this list, only the gun was designed specifically to kill.

If you're not planning on using it for its specific function, then you shouldn't be in possession of it at all.

[SaucyJim]

Originally Posted by JRcorvette

I knew that someone would say that but you are totally wrong. The problem these days is that parents are not raising their kids. The children of today are being raise by others since birth. It starts with Day Care some Mom and Dan can both work. then off to the Public schools which are mostly horrible. Modern day parents don’t spend much quality time with their kids. The 14 year old kid that did the shooting came from a messed up family with zero parenting skills. Sorry to tell you it is Not the Guns that are the problem it is society in general. We are living in troubled times. Hell even our government lies to us all the time. Go ask your kids how they are raising your grandchildren.

And let’s not forget the elephant in the room: a society that has, for the most part, removed God from the civil society.

[ken.yotz]

Are you a psychiatrist who can perform a diagnosis without even talking with the person? Did you consider that the problem may well be the parents?

Originally Posted by manaboutown

This is an ideal test case because the father is the perfect target as he is not a member of a protected minority. It will be used by the antigun crowd to argue for confiscating guns from responsible citizens.

IMHO the father should not have bought his obviously deranged 14 year old son a gun and so bears some responsibility. If the boy had acquired a gun on his own, say on the street, and the parents were unaware he had one it would be a different story.

Somewhat analogously, If a mentally disturbed boy was older and of driving age perhaps a parent should not allow him to drive as he could drive a vehicle through a crowd, killing and maiming people.

The problem is the boy is mentally disturbed and a parent provided him with a means to murder.

[Ptmcbriz]

Originally Posted by Chellybean

Although i agree with this, it is also becoming dangerous to our 2nd amendment, if they start holding gun manufactures liable as well.
They are chipping away of our rights as legal gun owners!

A person’s life is far more valuable than anything else. There is nothing more valuable. Please stop putting an inanimate object valued above a person’s life/soul.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by SaucyJim

And let’s not forget the elephant in the room: a society that has, for the most part, removed God from the civil society.

And - do you not live in The Villages? There's a new church being built every year here. God didn't invent guns. God didn't order Moses to bring down an 11th commandment "thou shalt keep and bear arms." God didn't instruct Jesus to teach his disciples how to shoot an AR-15 with a bump stock. God didn't say to Eve, "This is Eden. Enjoy all the guns, but don't eat the apple."

God has nothing to do with any of this.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

And - do you not live in The Villages? There's a new church being built every year here. God didn't invent guns. God didn't order Moses to bring down an 11th commandment "thou shalt keep and bear arms." God didn't instruct Jesus to teach his disciples how to shoot an AR-15 with a bump stock. God didn't say to Eve, "This is Eden. Enjoy all the guns, but don't eat the apple."

God has nothing to do with any of this.

God has everything to do with this. Bullying is the culprit in so many of these shootings and how many parents are teaching the loving one another precepts of the Bible anymore? Why isn't bullying being addressed with strong punishments?

Are you aware how many criminal gangs have moved into this country recently, are infiltrating societies and cities and are now coming to light and beginning to use their tactics?

If you think the local National Guard has the resources to control these growing forces in communities, I believe you are sadly mistaken. Gangs recruit and grow members constantly and they are vicious. You are welcome to keep a lady-like pistol for protection, most of us are interested in keeping a weapon capable of destroying any planned attacks to harm our families and dismantle Western Civilization.