[Normal]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

That parents are being charged at all proves there is a slope and your last paragraph describes how slippery it is.

This seems like the equivalent of looking for deep pockets in a lawsuit. If the person committing the crime is a minor then you can also go after the parents for your pound of flesh.

I'm sure there are some cases where the parents truly were negligent and should face some repercussions. Maybe thus is one of those cases. But charging parents ought to be the rars exception and not the new standard.

It’s a slippery slope and meanders into the weeds quickly. The premise is faulty. Of course we live in an irresponsible society now? Accountability is now only for the weakest link.

[Chellybean]

Originally Posted by Ptmcbriz

A person’s life is far more valuable than anything else. There is nothing more valuable. Please stop putting an inanimate object valued above a person’s life/soul.

OMG that's not even close to the point, its about our connotational rights that are being taken away slowly and that's how it starts with slippery slopes! JMHO

[Switter]

Originally Posted by tophcfa

Guns have been around forever, but the problem at hand has grown very bad much more recently. Connect the dots, these shootings have increased exponentially along with the growth of social media.

^^^This. There has been a significant increase in mental health problems amongst teens (and the general population as well). A normal, mentally stable person will never (or extremely rarely) just go out and kill people.

I don't recall the article but the author stated that teens today, because of social media, spend an exorbitant amount of time maintaining their identities than past generations. It used to be kids would only have to maintain their identity during the 7–8 hours they were in school. Now, it is almost 24/7. The level of anxiety this produces is enormous and one wrong post, picture, or video can haunt a kid for a very long time. In someways, I empathize with them because I didn't have to deal with that when I was a teenager.

This problem with identity stems from what Charles Taylor, the Canadian philosopher, called "expressive individualism". It's the idea that you are what you feel on the inside and that society or culture cannot place boundaries on individual expression. It's no longer "individual liberty" but "individual sovereignty". It's the water we swim in today and why we are so fragmented and so full of anxiety.

It would take me too long to connect the dots in this post but they are connected...

[CybrSage]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

I do not see any practical reason to own the kind of gun used in the Georgia shooting. But there are so many of these weapons out there that it would be impractical to remove them. Criminals would sell them as well, etc.

That is why it is the Bill of Rights and not the Bill of Practical Reasons.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by Life as I know it

There is not one child who wants to die for your second amendment right. Not one.
You do not need an assault rifle to protect yourself…

Hardly any "assault rifles" are owned by private citizens. You must have a federal permit to own an "assault rifle" if you are referring to a military weapon, aka automatic. Just because a rifle LOOKS like a military rifle, does not make one a military rifle. Kind of like a cross dresser. Just because the guy looks like a gal, does not make him a female.
If the powers that be insist on making decisions on HOW a child is raised, we should not hold the parent responsible, since they have their hands tied behind their backs when it comes to discipline. PERIOD.

[CybrSage]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I sure do understand it. Seems a lot of people don't though.

The "why" isn't "why do we still have 2a" or "why wasn't 2a better clarified?" It's "why does it exist?"

It exists because at the time of the founding of this country, we didn't have the National Guard. Our country wasn't a "United" states of America, it was individual states working together to ensure freedom from Britain and a tyrannical government. So when it came time to fight Britain, the people (also known as We The People) rose up together, formed our militias, and brought our own weapons to the fight. We didn't have armories that provided arms for us. We had to use our own. But carrying a firearm in public was ILLEGAL at the time. And so - the right of THE PEOPLE...to keep and bear arms - was adopted.

That is the reason the 2nd Amendment exists.

The why we have free speech was so we could complain about having a king.
We no longer have a king, time to get rid of free speech.

The reason we have freedom of religion was so people did not have to be in the church of the king.
We no longer have a king and there is no Church of America. Time to get rid of freedom of religion.

Reduction to absurdity, a favorite of Aristotle.

I would demand your money back from wherever you got your Constitutional Law degree, they taught you some very, very wrong information. So wrong, I am sure you can sue them over it.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by SaucyJim

Are you saying that if you are a descendant of slave owners that you should pay a price for their sins?

The knife could cut both ways.

Kind of off subject, but you brought up a thought. "They" want those that did not own slaves to pay those that were never slaves...........for what reason? Just a thought and not requiring an answer.

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by Ptmcbriz

A person’s life is far more valuable than anything else. There is nothing more valuable.

If that were truly the case, we wasted a lot of lives defending freedom and liberty!

I just saw A Man For All Seasons on TMC recently. Surely he thought there were more important things than living.

[CybrSage]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

That means the government can clarify, and it wouldn't violate the constitution.

This logic also says the government can clarify what types of free speech you can have and it wouldn't violate the constitution.

They could say you can use a quill and ink on parchment, a printing press, or a specific place in a town squares but nothing modern like a forum called TOTV, email, TV, paper, etc.

The Supreme Court exists to stop people from imposing such obviously violations of our rights.

For example, to create a limit on the second amendment, a government wishing to place restrictions on firearm ownership must “affirmatively prove that its firearms regulation is part of the historical tradition that delimits the outer bounds of the right to keep and bear arms.”

Your desired violations clearly do not meet that standard.

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by Ptmcbriz

A person’s life is far more valuable than anything else. There is nothing more valuable. Please stop putting an inanimate object valued above a person’s life/soul.

“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” B Franklin, yes that is out of context but still has merit. The constitution was to protect you from the, government, the right to bear arms was to help keep government from too much power, yes an armed uprising is a little far fetched these days. I don't think many would argue that the framers could not anticipate a day when society could not protect it self from its own citizens. It is within living memory when things were very different, gun sales through the mail , mass shooting just about unheard of . Much more personal freedom and we have the other side of the coin.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by jimbomaybe

“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” B Franklin, yes that is out of context but still has merit. The constitution was to protect you from the, government, the right to bear arms was to help keep government from too much power, yes an armed uprising is a little far fetched these days. I don't think many would argue that the framers could not anticipate a day when society could not protect it self from its own citizens. It is within living memory when things were very different, gun sales through the mail , mass shooting just about unheard of . Much more personal freedom and we have the other side of the coin.

You realize a gun is a gun, it's the minds of people and the culture that changed.

[nn0wheremann]

Originally Posted by Tvflguy

Finally, irresponsible parent(s) are being held liable and charged. Hopefully this may affect these horrible shootings by troubled kids.

BTW Dr Phil had a wonderful episode on this topic. He, and other leaders may have an impact to alleviate these shootings. His stats show that 94% of these shooters had told other students or posted their plans.

I agree, but then I remember how my father secured the rifle and shotgun in our home, and how easily I and an older brother could defeat his efforts. We had a rifle target range in the basement, and I was probably in kindergarten or first grade when I learned how to shoot, how to care for, and to respect firearms for what they were and what they could do. Maybe that contributed to keeping me from shooting anything I shouldn’t. There was no fascination or fantasy factor with firearms.

[jimbomaybe]

Originally Posted by CybrSage

This logic also says the government can clarify what types of free speech you can have and it wouldn't violate the constitution.

They could say you can use a quill and ink on parchment, a printing press, or a specific place in a town squares but nothing modern like a forum called TOTV, email, TV, paper, etc.

The Supreme Court exists to stop people from imposing such obviously violations of our rights.

For example, to create a limit on the second amendment, a government wishing to place restrictions on firearm ownership must “affirmatively prove that its firearms regulation is part of the historical tradition that delimits the outer bounds of the right to keep and bear arms.”

Your desired violations clearly do not meet that standard.

Hey, you can have a small Cal muzzle loader anything else has military potential , stop complaining , background checks , Ok , but we need to make some adjustments to standards as to who can own a firearm.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Aces4

God has everything to do with this. Bullying is the culprit in so many of these shootings and how many parents are teaching the loving one another precepts of the Bible anymore? Why isn't bullying being addressed with strong punishments?

Are you aware how many criminal gangs have moved into this country recently, are infiltrating societies and cities and are now coming to light and beginning to use their tactics?

If you think the local National Guard has the resources to control these growing forces in communities, I believe you are sadly mistaken. Gangs recruit and grow members constantly and they are vicious. You are welcome to keep a lady-like pistol for protection, most of us are interested in keeping a weapon capable of destroying any planned attacks to harm our families and dismantle Western Civilization.

I don't keep any pistol at all. I don't allow guns in my house. I have no problem with other people allowing guns in their houses. I don't approve of guns. But I live in a country where guns are allowed, and as an American, I accept that.

Guns are not allowed to be used to attack other people, however. No weapon is allowed to be used to attack other people. But the #1 tool used to kill people - is a gun. A gun can kill more people in a short period of time than a knife, or car, or ice pick, or your fists.

God didn't create guns, god didn't create idiots who reject accountability and responsibility. God didn't create people who blame god for bad things, offer thoughts and prayers instead of taking steps to prevent bad things from happening again, and god didn't create people who - instead of acknowledging that bad things happen when bad people have guns - focus on their rights to have guns. That wasn't god. That was 100% man-made conspiracy, manipulation, influence of the NRA, which also was not created by god.

God did, however, order the first-born male to be slaughtered. God also ordered Abraham to murder his son. God has a lot to say about a lot of things:

Proverbs 30:17 states, "The eye that mocks a father and scorns to obey a mother will be picked out by the ravens of the valley and eaten by the vultures".

I'd suggest a careful and thorough read of the Book of Deuteronomy if you want to know what God thinks about most behaviors.

As for Jesus - he died for the sins of the past. It was basically a pardon for crimes committed, not for future crimes.

As for the evangelicals who only abide the New Testament - they are very quick to remind us about the Ten Commandments. But those were written for the Old Testament, which their Jesus said they could disregard since he died for their sins.

God - has no place in discussion about Constitutional rights. At all. We even have an amendment about that, the whole separation of church and state thing. It's the amendment that comes right before the right to keep and bear arms.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I don't keep any pistol at all. I don't allow guns in my house. I have no problem with other people allowing guns in their houses. I don't approve of guns. But I live in a country where guns are allowed, and as an American, I accept that.

Guns are not allowed to be used to attack other people, however. No weapon is allowed to be used to attack other people. But the #1 tool used to kill people - is a gun. A gun can kill more people in a short period of time than a knife, or car, or ice pick, or your fists.

God didn't create guns, god didn't create idiots who reject accountability and responsibility. God didn't create people who blame god for bad things, offer thoughts and prayers instead of taking steps to prevent bad things from happening again, and god didn't create people who - instead of acknowledging that bad things happen when bad people have guns - focus on their rights to have guns. That wasn't god. That was 100% man-made conspiracy, manipulation, influence of the NRA, which also was not created by god.

God did, however, order the first-born male to be slaughtered. God also ordered Abraham to murder his son. God has a lot to say about a lot of things:

Proverbs 30:17 states, "The eye that mocks a father and scorns to obey a mother will be picked out by the ravens of the valley and eaten by the vultures".

I'd suggest a careful and thorough read of the Book of Deuteronomy if you want to know what God thinks about most behaviors.

As for Jesus - he died for the sins of the past. It was basically a pardon for crimes committed, not for future crimes.

As for the evangelicals who only abide the New Testament - they are very quick to remind us about the Ten Commandments. But those were written for the Old Testament, which their Jesus said they could disregard since he died for their sins.

God - has no place in discussion about Constitutional rights. At all. We even have an amendment about that, the whole separation of church and state thing. It's the amendment that comes right before the right to keep and bear arms.

In reading comprehension, one would understand that you cannot ban people from their belief in God and how the lack of faith and condemnation of God is the discussion here. It absolutely belongs in this discussion. It is my belief, no matter how hard you stomp your foot, that the loss of faith, the every man for himself and hate in this world are the step stones to violence, crime and lead to the need for self-protection.

The right to bear arms is for everyone's freedom to protect themselves and their family against the vile, godless actions of the evil prowling the earth.